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I'm actually not huge into poetry, but since no one else is saying anything and I don't want to leave you hangin'...

I only like poetry that rhymes so: 1 thumbs up
I like poetry that uses words that aren't too common (ie. don't just rhyme my, buy, try, fly, me, she, he, tree, etc.) so: another thumbs up
          (special props for using the words: shroud, solace, and sterile)
I like poetry that references or at least alludes to classic literature so: another thumbs up
          (the part about the empty halls and empty hands reminded me of literature such as Beowulf)
I don't like poetry that is depressing so: 1 thumbs down

Poetry is an art.  As I look at God's artwork, I see hope.  A rainbow after a rain.  A flower opening.  A bird singing.  Even things that appear at first to be sad actually have hope built into them.  For instance, a sunset is beautiful, but implicit in the world's turning which causes the sunset is the idea that we will keep turning and the sun will rise again tomorrow (which is also beautiful).

I think that human art should reflect God's art.  There are times when we want to communicate sadness, or loss, or pain, or whatever.  But I think that when we communicate them we should do so in such a way that we also point to our Hope.  The Psalms are a great example.  So many of them start off with David sharing his deep pain and anguish, and yet they end up pointing to how God is good and that David still has hope.

This is excellent, Daniel.
Is it just me or do I detect a bit of an Edmund Spencer vibe?

Silly me. I thought it was Coney Island Amusement Park. 

Gave me chills.  Good stuff, Daniel.

Ecclesiastes 2:11
Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done and what I had toiled to achieve, everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind; nothing was gained under the sun.


I think this poem is about mortality and the goals of a persons life.  How they cannot last forever and on there own are meaningless.  Many people seek a form of imortality but it is only through god that we find eternal life.  Here this man of stone is left to ponder if his legacy will truly last.

We are not told if his heritage is a spiritual one because the author only talks of his temporal furnishings and their fate, but because of that omision, I think it is safe to assume that the kingdom he once had, has passed away and all the work of his hand has been shown to be just as the "Teacher" proclaimed; "Meaningless, a chasing after the wind"

I liked it

But I think that when we communicate them we should do so in such a way that we also point to our Hope.  The Psalms are a great example.  So many of them start off with David sharing his deep pain and anguish, and yet they end up pointing to how God is good and that David still has hope.

I respectfully disagree.  I think art can be beautiful and sad at the same time.  Is there not a powerful message in Romeo and Juliet even though they were "star-crossed lovers"?  Tragedy can teach us much if it is truthful.  It doesnt always have to be explicitly hopeful in my opinion.

I enjoyed the poem. Without knowing your "idea" behind the poem, I think each can feel / interpret it in our own way. It comes across to me with a certain stoic sadness, but that is just my "feel" of it at this time.



Godspeed,
Mike

I respectfully disagree.  I think art can be beautiful and sad at the same time.  Is there not a powerful message in Romeo and Juliet even though they were "star-crossed lovers"?  Tragedy can teach us much if it is truthful.  It doesnt always have to be explicitly hopeful in my opinion.

Did you seriously point to Romeo and Juliet as a positive example of anything?  That is got to be the most overrated piece of literature in the history of mankind.  I can't believe we force High Schoolers around the nation to read that lame play.  Shakespeare was capable of such awesomeness as Hamlet, Macbeth, Julius Caesar, etc.  There is no reason why everyone should have to read that one.

As for your overall point.  I agree that art can be sad and beautiful at the same time.  I just don't like it.  If I want to be sad, I can watch the news.  If I am going to watch a movie, read a book, etc. then I want a happy ending.  After all, the author can end it however they want, so ending with hope is what I like

Wow, nice work Daniel. Very well done.

The reason many don't like Romeo and Juliet is because it has become a cliche of our culture.

No the reason I don't like Romeo and Juliet is because the characters are so lame that you don't really care about them, or feel sorry for them when they kill themselves.  They are just 2 young teenagers who don't even know what love is, who are controlled by their emotions to the extent that they both end up committing suicide, when they could have lived happily ever after if they just had a tiny bit more patience.

It is full of stupid lines like "I bite my thumb at you" (to insult someone), and "O that I were a glove upon that hand, that I might touch that cheek!" (to compliment someone).  Even one of the most famous lines is stupid.  "Parting is such sweet sorrow"  Where is the sweetness in saying good-bye.  My wife and I always hated saying goodnight when we were dating and it was curfew and we had to return to our dorms.  It was sorrow, but not sweet.

About the only redeeming part of the play is the message that love should overcome the walls that are erected between groups (families in the play, but it could be gangs, cultures, or colors of people).  However, in the play love doesn't actually overcome.  The two people who try to overcome the system around them end up dead, and nothing changes.  And on top of that, their relationship is much less true love anyway.  It is really a lot more like lust.  No wonder they make such poor decisions.

You're forgetting that this play is a tragedy. Posit your negatives to support a tragic ending and you end up with an amazing play.

Tragedy - a drama in which a character (usually a good and noble person of high rank) is brought to a disastrous end in a narrative, depicting serious and important events.

Uber fail for R&J.  Firstly, no character in R&J is good an noble.  Secondly, there are no serious or important events in the story.  It is merely a couple young teens who have a crush one each other in a small Italian village.  This just can't compare to any of the other tragedies that I mentioned earlier.

Quote from: Colin Michael on May 19, 2009, 05:46:41 AM

You're forgetting that this play is a tragedy. Posit your negatives to support a tragic ending and you end up with an amazing play.

Tragedy - a drama in which a character (usually a good and noble person of high rank) is brought to a disastrous end in a narrative, depicting serious and important events.

Uber fail for R&J.  Firstly, no character in R&J is good an noble.  Secondly, there are no serious or important events in the story.  It is merely a couple young teens who have a crush one each other in a small Italian village.  This just can't compare to any of the other tragedies that I mentioned earlier.

You're putting it in the terms of our American society. In Shakespeare's time, nothing is nobler than love.

Also, your definition of tragedy is somewhat lacking. You're forgetting the tragic flaw and the nature of characters in a tragedy as being "better than life".

Quote from: Colin Michael on May 19, 2009, 04:30:25 PM

You're putting it in the terms of our American society. In Shakespeare's time, nothing is nobler than love.

I'm not putting it in terms of American society at all.  Actually R&J's "love" probably fits with typical American society's perceptions of love.  I am putting it in terms of reality, in which case their lustful relationship is nothing to aspire to or respect.

Quote from: Colin Michael on May 19, 2009, 04:30:25 PM

Also, your definition of tragedy is somewhat lacking. You're forgetting the tragic flaw and the nature of characters in a tragedy as being "better than life".

I got my definition from the dictionary, and I am forgetting nothing.  I know that it is supposed to be a great hero who is brought down by their flaw.  But the problem here is that there is no great hero to begin with.  We just have a whole bunch of characters who are full of flaws and who the reader doesn't even care about.

Characters that you don't particularly care about.