Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Preface: I have only scanned this thread.

A true booster pack set like Priests appears too expensive.  I am hoping to find some middle ground by producing a set like Disciples.  Rather than including 4 new cards, perhaps we could include 6 new cards with the remaining 9 cards coming from something we have not used yet.  For example, I would be willing to pull the 9 backlist cards from Kings, FoOF and/or RoA packs (say 3 random cards from each set).  The theme we are developing is The Early Church.

I already have a quote from Carta Mundi on a set of 220 new cards.  Cost is about $35K (Carta Mundi produced the last starter deck cards).  210 cards are for new set card boxes and 10 cards for tournament promos / chase cards.  I can set aside more cards for kickstarter / prepaid supporters.  I can also get a quote from Ricowell who has produced the sets in recent years and their cost will likely be around $25K.

I am willing to keep Redemption supported with a new set if by God's provision it makes sense. At the same time I am willing to move on if 19 years is the life of this game.

At the very least, I think we should put together a viable kick starter offer and see what happens.


If nothing else, I request your prayers that the Lord "Dad" directs me toward the next step.  Thank you, no truly THANK YOU!   Some of my best friends are because of this game. 

Blessings,
Rob

Main question:  If we can get a set of 220 cards then how is that not enough for a new booster set?  I'm pretty sure that is near the size of previous booster sets.

What aspect of 'randomized foil packs' specifically drives the cost up?

I don't care about foil wrappers, booster cards can be wrapped in bacon for all I care. I just want a return to actual rarities and not continuing this game as a LCG.

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I don't care about foil wrappers, booster cards can be wrapped in bacon for all I care. I just want a return to actual rarities and not continuing this game as a LCG.

I guess I don't understand why some folks feel that having different card rarities is so important. Would you be willing to explain?

I would definitely spend more money on a set with rarity I have alw ays enjoyed opening a pack and hoping I get a UR. Plus like I said earlier it drives up the value of cards which helps the market.

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I don't care about foil wrappers, booster cards can be wrapped in bacon for all I care. I just want a return to actual rarities and not continuing this game as a LCG.

I guess I don't understand why some folks feel that having different card rarities is so important. Would you be willing to explain?

The biggest thing to me is that it makes for a better Closed Deck environment.  Boosters allow the new set to be used in Sealed (because each pack would not be ridiculously overpowered like TexP or Di), and defined rarity allows for a better, more consistent drafting experience (tins are terrible because you've got ten cards in your pool predefined for you, TexP and Di are fun, but in a silly kind of way).

I know I have already said this way to much but rarity means more money for Cactus and more money for Cactus means more and bigger sets for us. I don't care if I have to buy 30 packs to get the cards I want I will do it .

Think for a moment if Vain Philosophy had been an Ultra-Rare... Grapes and Mayhem are two of the most expensive cards in the game even though their rarity is the same as all other TexP cards.

I would definitely spend more money on a set with rarity I have alw ays enjoyed opening a pack and hoping I get a UR.

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 13, 2014, 06:31:39 AM

Quote from: _JM_ on March 12, 2014, 10:26:17 AM

The biggest thing to me is that it makes for a better Closed Deck environment.  Boosters allow the new set to be used in Sealed (because each pack would not be ridiculously overpowered like TexP or Di), and defined rarity allows for a better, more consistent drafting experience (tins are terrible because you've got ten cards in your pool predefined for you, TexP and Di are fun, but in a silly kind of way).

This is simply a request for randomized packs--it has nothing to with rarities. What I mean is that if all of the cards in the set were common and came shipped as randomized packs that would provide the same benefit to Sealed and Booster. Right? If TexP and Disciples didn't have a preference for rare/ultra-rares but mixed in random cards from previous sets that would resolve the issue with them being "ridiculously overpowered." So if the new set had packs comprised of six new cards plus X older cards (picked at random), would that work?

That would be better, but I still would have concerns for sealed and booster.  Rarity allows you to hide certain cards so they show up less frequently and don't warp the Closed Deck environment.  That's one reason why we don't use TexP for Sealed - leaving aside the old rares/URs, Grapes and Mayhem should be showing up at about the same rate as Leah and Image of Jealousy.  That's just too much of a power gap.  But put Grapes and Mayhem at UR in a larger set, where URs show up in 1 out of 10 packs or so, AND there's only one of them in there, guaranteed - now you can use NewSet for sealed.  No idea what sort of power levels we'll see, and even commons can end up broken, but it's good to hide cards that are guaranteed to strongly warp the Closed Deck environment.

As for booster, like I said, TexP/Di are fun but silly.  The power level between packs has some pretty intense variability.  That would be helped by opening up the old card section to utilize rarity better.  I will say that either direction should allow for some more unique drafting structures.  Thin box approach (with/without changing old card selection style): let's do a TexP/Di/NewSet/NewSet booster!  Foil/rarity approach: let's draft 4-6 packs of NewSet (and 0-2 of another booster)!  You know what, who would be up for trying a straight Priests or Kings draft sometime?  Has anyone ever done that?

Rarity also allows you to move complexity out of common.  Make commons closer to I/J base complexity (not necessarily power, but complexity), and you reduce the barrier of entry to the game.  New players now have a pretty easy to grok starter deck, as well as a new booster set that has accessible cards.  Can't do that with a TexP/Di style set where every card has an equal chance at a slot.

As for distribution, I'd love to see 6/3/1, as that makes UC feel a bit more, well, uncommon.  No idea how that impacts printing or whatnot.  And yeah, I know, precedent and all that.  Sigh.

One last thought, regarding new brigade speculation - rarity makes it easier to print no-SA characters and enhancements.  I'd be pretty annoyed at opening either in a TexP/Di style box.  Put it at common in a pack that has UC and R/UR, however, and it makes sense.  No-SA helps reduce barrier to entry (one of the flaws of Priests and Kings, in my opinion, was that there were very few no-SA cards), especially with a new brigade, as there's less information overload and decks based purely on I/J and NewSet would be easier to construct. 

Ok, had another last thought while finishing up that paragraph.  Rarity lets you do vertical cycles with cards - Shepherd Boy David at common (no SA), Giant-slayer David at UC (small ability, perhaps), Outlaw David at R, and King David at UR.  That's a really cool cycle to chase (and I'm sure other characters can be done in a similar manner, not just through time, but adding on pieces of who they were through the progression).  It's impossible to really do that in a TexP/Di style set.  I mean, you can print those cards, but it's not really a progression of the character when King David shows up as much as Shepherd Boy David does.  #FlavorConcerns

Something I've been thinking about lately, what is the feasibility of printing a true booster set in paper wrappers? MtG did this with one of their sets 10 years ago, Unhinged. I recently bought a pack ($20 due to rarity) and the pack itself is surprisingly well made. Is the cost of boosters made out of foil so offsetting that paper boosters would be a possibility? I actually thought the pack was pretty cool in a rustic way.