Cactus Game Design Message Boards

ok everyone, I just thought i'd create this thread to continue the discussion on kickstarter

I think you could do it the same way that Kickstarter does.  Cactus could announce that they are soliciting donations for the next set with a financial goal and a deadline. People donate now and if the financial goal is met, Cactus could collect the money (i.e., charge credit cards) immediately.

OK, so just to get a basic feeler at this point.  How many people would be willing to pre-purchase a box or more of new packs (10 random new cards in a foil wrapper - like the Priests set) if the cost was approximately $150?

THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL OR BINDING CONTRACT!!!

However please start spreading the news around to the people you know who buy cards, and let's at least get a ballpark figure of whether we're talking about preorders of $1000 or $10,000 or $100,000.

Hypothetical Kickstarter Rewards listed here.

Preliminary total = $3,125
Prof Underwood = $300
Red = $200
Crashfach2002 = $500
TechnoEthicist = $500
Browarod = $200
Galadgawyn = $200
Jmhartz = $200
Uthminister = $500
YourMathTeacher = $200
Redoubter = $100
Jbeers285 = $200
AJ = $25

Many more details would need to be known before I could even give a number.

-Are we assuming 45 packs at retail $3.00 per pack?
-Size of set (100, 150, 200)?

Part of the reason I like Kickstarter is because of the promotional bonuses both for packages as well as target goals. Do you have any of these in mind or is this just pure donation?

I cannot find anything on the Kickstarter website that suggests a project has to be a brand new IP. Marti may know something I don't, but as far as I can tell, there's no reason Cactus couldn't use it. With that in mind, I would very much prefer that Cactus use Kickstarter over other crowdsourcing options, or doing it independently. The main reason for this is because Kickstarter is an established brand. It's much easier to convince people to contribute to a project like this when using Kickstarter, because it's a known and trusted name. There are other crowdsourcing options that are legitimate, and everyone who knows Rob knows that he would never run a scam, but when it comes down to it, the less wariness and distrust, the better. I also like the transparency and structure that Kickstarter demands. I'm willing to back a project like this, but I want to know exactly what I'm investing in and when it's going to be released. If delays happen, I want to know exactly why and when the new release date might be. That's not a distrust of Rob specifically, but if I'm putting up my own money in advance, I like to know where things are. Plus, it will be much easier to convince people to get on board with this kind of structure. It's also binding: If you pledge, you have to pay if the fundraising goal is met. It's extremely hard to back out for no reason, meaning there's less risk for everyone involved. I recognize that there is an 8-10% processing fee between Kickstarter and Amazon, but I think it will be more than worth it.

Even if Rob chose not to use Kickstarter, but still wanted to crowdsource, there should definitely be different levels of donations. If you donate $5, congratulations, you get two packs. Donate $10? Have five. Donate $100? Have a full set. You can even include old packs/cards/sets to mix it up and give people with small collections or even people who have never played the game incentive to donate more. I know that I would consider at least a $200-300 donation if I knew I was going to be receiving a lot of competitive cards in return. I think if an intelligent strategy was used, Rob could easily raise a few thousand dollars. Plus, using Kickstarter, if he doesn't, then there's no harm done.

The point of using Kickstarter wouldn't be to completely fund the project, nor would it be for those who will buy wholesale. It's for people who want a new set faster, and are willing to pay earlier to see that happen.

I also would be more motivated to donate in exchange for unique tiered awards beyond just the actual product itself.

First, apparently I missed a big conversation about kickstarter in Redemption...but I'd certainly be in as much as I could be without sleeping on the couch.  However,

$5000 - 50 boxes (value at $9,000) + 3 tins + ROB Buckler + T-shirt + Deluxe Factory Set + Playtesting Access

I'm not sure I like that idea as much.  Maybe it's just me, but I don't think playtesting access should be able to be bought; it is already something everybody wants, and being able to buy access to something like that just because you have more money than others will just lead to...well...you know...

But I do like tiered rewards of some kind

interesting idea, but the awards that are unlocked based on goals met usually mean free swag that go to all supporters, not an increased size of set.

Personally, I would view an increased set size as a swag that benefits everybody. Another way to bump that up is to make a couple of tiers like...

    $X get a complete set of commons/uncommons

    $Y get a complete set of rares and commons/uncommons

    $Z get a complete set of the ultra-rares, rares, and commons  (not counting promos)

Then the larger the set the more cards you would get automatically.

Prof, I forgot to note earlier how I liked mixing in the grab bag and the various factory sets in the tiers. By adding in these kinds of rewards Cactus could use the crowd-funding effort as a means of player recruitment.  Two things on this: 

• If there is going to be a concerted push to use this crowd-funding effort to try to bring in new players, then KickStarter would be  a better location.
• I would also consider moving the grab bag/factory sets way down the tier--maybe even offering something karazy like a copy of the I&J Starters, a Deluxe Factory set plus 10 packs for $250--just as part of the KickStarter.

.

interesting idea, but the awards that are unlocked based on goals met usually mean free swag that go to all supporters, not an increased size of set. I also agree that playtesting should not be bought, that has the potential to do more harm than good, even if no one even raises that much...

Actually, some kickstarters will do items for all supporters + something extra for the game at release. For example, Flight Rising (it's a breeding sim) did a kickstarter and at a certain dollar amount they added more colors to the color wheel at launch.

Granted, that's a browser-based game and would act differently. Could there be special promos for the Kickstarter? If there was a promo or two that you could only get from the KS, people would be more likely to donate to it if the promo(s) were made well and worthwhile.

But, with the KS promo, it could ONLY be distributed once. No reprints, no redistribution like we do with the NJ promo and other promos now. Otherwise you could end up with angry people who felt like they were ripped off by the KS.

Just my thoughts.

Could there be special promos for the Kickstarter? If there was a promo or two that you could only get from the KS, people would be more likely to donate to it if the promo(s) were made well and worthwhile.

But, with the KS promo, it could ONLY be distributed once. No reprints, no redistribution like we do with the NJ promo and other promos now. Otherwise you could end up with angry people who felt like they were ripped off by the KS.

This is an interesting idea, but part of Rob's philosophy over the years is to purposefully make Redemption more accessible than most CCGs.  I understand the desire for a reseller like 3LG or Techno to have something more collectible, but I doubt that Redemption would go that direction.  I'm not saying it's impossible.  There have been a few cards over the years that were only available through an unconventional means (Salvation Army journal subscriptions, World Vision child sponsorship, etc.) that are no longer available.  But these have certainly been exceptions.  So for purposes of this completely unofficial feeler, let's say there are NOT any Kickstarter specific promos.  Based on that what would level would people be willing to support?

KS promos are the way to go. That would give me enough incentive to invest. The other exclusives are terrible.

I can only hope that others feel differently.  Otherwise I have serious doubts about us getting a large foil set (like Priests) anytime soon.  The rewards are there for gravy.  The real reason to invest is simply because people actually want to get a new large foil set.

Here's a great idea for a KS promo!

Artifact
Upon activation, you may draw cards until you have 7 cards in your hand. If do, your turn ends.

Surely this won't backfire and become super expensive!

This is an attempt at a joke that ~2% of the forums will understand.