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The way I see it on the HP and such debate is that it's a product of imagination. Imagination is manifested in multiple forms one of which is to dream of something that is practically impossible. And if you can discern imagination from reality and know when imagination crosses it's boundaries you are ok.

There are other people (stereotypically older and/or more conservative worldview) who dislike it.  Most of them have not read it personally, but have read about it.  They don't appreciate that the book makes using magic seem cool, and are concerned that it could lead susceptible readers down a bad path.

My comment on the emphasized phrases above:  Anyone who thinks the HP books teach that using magic is cool have not read the books.  Magic, in the books, is no different than the fictional abilities to read minds, walk through walls, or fly - it's just a "fact" about the human race in the books that some can use it and some can not. 

I'll echo Pol's response - most of my views on the subject have already been expressed, primarily in steffer's post.

Yes,you are correct. The witches&wizards are seen as superior to the Muggles,who can't use magic.
I see no need to list Scripture on this. We all have,at one point or another,heard/read the verse that says you will not let a witch live and that witchcraft is a abomination to God. But if you want Scripture verses,here they are: Exodus 22:18,Deuteronomy 18:9-14,1 Samuel 15:23,Galatians 5:19-21.  I'm using the KJV btw.

Bottom line: everyone that is a adult from 8 to 108,you must carefully chose on this. I'd recommend doing a Google search on Harry Potter,both for&against sides. The arguments on both sides might help make up your mind concerning this.

Good luck and God bless ya.

I'm starting to get really annoy with people comparing the use of magic in harry potter to pornography....

1 Corinthians 10:23-33
23 "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is constructive. 24 Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others. 25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26 for, "The earth is the Lord's, and everything in it." 27 If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28 But if anyone says to you, "This has been offered in sacrifice," then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake-- 29 the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience? 30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for? 31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God-- 33 even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

There is your answer on the rightness of it. If it causes people who believe it is evil to do it against their conscience then don't. I had a friend who loved MMOs but thought that a christian should not be a magic user (I myself enjoy playing mages, healers,and warlocks in MMOs), while playing with this person I used rouges and archers in order for the other person to not go against their convictions. The only time this doesn't apply is when their beliefs directly contradict the bible, which you should help them understand if that is the issue.

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 16, 2011, 10:25:11 PM

Quote from: lp670sv on December 16, 2011, 06:37:32 PM

Never in my lifetime will I understand why anyone can think that Harry Potter can somehow corrupt children. It's a completely fictional story, with a lot of good morals to the story.

Fiction != harmless. 

Are you any less of a Christian having read the Artemis Fowl books? No.

I was simply disagreeing with your postulation that being fiction made it so that they couldn't corrupt children.

Still not one verse quoted.  Interesting.

I am curious about something.  Is it anything in fiction/entertainment that is supernatural that is perceived by some to be wrong, or just "magic"?  I mean if you think about it, no natural thing can do something supernatural without the power of God, so does this make things like comic book heroes blasphemous too?  Is anything that involves a sentient race besides human beings somehow anti-God?  What about movies with animals that speak in human languages?  What about movies where toys are actually alive?  All these things are impossible, except for God, and yet they are considered OK for entertainment and good for our imaginations, even though only God could make that happen.  But if a character suddenly pulls out a wand, says some latin words, and something supernatural happens, then here comes the flood of criticism.  I consider myself a generally "conservative" person, and I have only watched the HP movies, but I never felt like I was being encouraged to go out and start practicing sorcery or witchcraft, and I have never heard of the author encouraging this behavior either.  If I am wrong then certainly please cite the sources.

I AM NOT suggesting that anyone watch the HP movies or read the books.  It is not my place as a Christian to invite brethren to sin against their conscience, anymore than they can say that it is a sin for every Christian to watch a HP movie.  According to Romans 14 and other passages, for the Christian who has doubts already, it WOULD be a sin for them to do so, and they should abstain. I just hope that Christians the world over will so zealously fight the more important theological battles of our time as they have the HP series.  The world is not turning into a bunch of witches and wizards.  It is turning to Islam, Atheism, immorality, and overall apathy toward God/Christ, His word, and to our fellow man.  Let's focus on the big picture.

Just one person's thoughts out of many.

I tend to disagree with Steff on a lot of things, but this really stood out to me.  Imagine if Christians went after gossip and hypocrisy the way we go after homosexuality and things like Harry Potter/Golden Compass.

I pretty much agree with the overall spirit of this thread, and as I mentioned, I'm a huge fan of the entire franchise. I agree that, if you feel you're being told by the Holy Spirit that you shouldn't read Harry Potter, you shouldn't allow other people to attempt to influence you to read them against what you believe to be right. That said, neither is it anybody's responsibility to declare that Harry Potter is evil and shouldn't be read by any self-declared Christians. I believe it falls strictly within the "live and let live" gray area - it's going to be right for some and not for others. Beyond that, I believe everything else has been stated two or three times in this thread. It is encouraging to see so much support - however tentative some of it is - for the series here though, especially from stef, who's notably one of the more conservative members.

In the great Kingdom of Swaziland, you're a man after finishing school and you switch from mining to farming, at the age of 13.

EDIT: Actually, that isn't true. I looked it up and Swaziland has the highest age of majority in the world (tied with several other countries).

Quote from: soul seeker on December 18, 2011, 06:00:53 PM

Quote from: Sadness on December 17, 2011, 08:22:56 AM

Bottom line: everyone that is a adult from 8 to 108

8 year olds are not adults.  Neither are 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, or 17 year olds.  Just sayin'

Many 18-30 year olds aren't adults either. Just sayin'.

I think I see what you are getting at, but it is interesting to note that according to psychologists/people who study brain development, assert that a person's brain is not fully developed until age 24.  Interestingly, the part of the brain that uses proper judgement is the last part that develops.  Examples of this explains why it is stereotypical for youth/college age to throw caution to the wind without properly considering consequences.  I wonder if that is why car rental places wait until 24 before they rent out cars?

Guys&gals,
We try 13yr olds as adults for a murder commited. Back during the late 1800's to early
1900's,if the parent died,the oldest child was considered the adult of the household.
Sometimes the child was only 7,but became the adult because he had to. The age of accountability
is going lower each year. What is the age now where a child knows the difference between
good&evil,right&wrong?  The days of childhood innocence are rapidly falling away.

LotR similarly distinguishes the magic of Sauron (evil) and Gandalf (good).

As little magic that is actually in LotR, both could technically be used by either side. Gandalf does get special attention as he is the wielder of the Flame of Anor, but otherwise it's your typical force push/pull, fireballs (I don't actually remember if they're in the books, but in the movie they both use them), foresight (Aragorn as well as Saruman and Denathor use the palantir), etc.

Quote from: Prof Underwood on December 18, 2011, 09:45:46 PM

LotR similarly distinguishes the magic of Sauron (evil) and Gandalf (good).

As little magic that is actually in LotR, both could technically be used by either side. Gandalf does get special attention as he is the wielder of the Flame of Anor, but otherwise it's your typical force push/pull, fireballs (I don't actually remember if they're in the books, but in the movie they both use them), foresight (Aragorn as well as Saruman and Denathor use the palantir), etc.

Their powers come from different sources. Have you ever read the Silmarillion? The evil magic in LotR is Morgoth (and later, Sauron) attempting to re-create the good magic that the good guys - elves, istari, Noldor, etc. - do with the power that is given them. Palantiri are an example of this. They were made by the Noldor, but one was captured by Sauron and he used it to control the others.


On the original topic, I have neither read nor seen Harry Potter. As my opinions have already been expressed on this thread by people who have, I will not add anything.

I've tried to read the Silmarillion 3 times. I failed.

So did I, except that I succeeded the 3rd time. I know how you feel.

you wouldn't know this if not for that book

Not all of this is Silmarillion. Aragorn mentions a similar concept about fire on Weathertop and Gandalf explains about the Palantiri to Pippin. The Silmarillion merely goes more in-depth.


If Rowling published such a book, it would distinguish between the two for many concerned people. I'm not saying that that makes it right, but it would make it better for a lot of people.