Author Topic: Guys, I need some help. (Read 9597 times)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **on:** December 01, 2011, 09:08:55 PM »

Here's the backstory.

Earlier today, Matt was telling me how he feels like he doesn't matter in this community at all. Then just a bit ago he was stressing out about his deck. Red asked to see the decklist so he could help out... Here is what Matt said to me on AIM in response:

Matt
do people really think im that stupid
to give out my decklist and let it be used against me

Me
you mean Red wanting to see your deck?
he wants to help you -.-

Matt
or fix his own deck and kill me

Me
and you wonder why you dont feel welcome in this community.
people offer to help and you spit in their faces.

Matt
thats because no one truly wants to help
red has already said in past he thinks judges are better then kings
so thats proof he just wants it so he can prove hes better then me
i have to defend my property

I can understand not showing people decks just before a tournament, or if you have some ultra-strong secret combo... but neither one applies here. I'm not the only one who finds this to be overly defensive right? This is not the first time I've seen this lack of trust and aggressive attitude.

From my experiences here, people in this community are honest when they offer someone help. So, I'm asking you guys, is there anything you all can do to help Matt be more trusting around here?

appleHater · « **Reply #1 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:20:39 PM »

Well you can probably start by not posting what was a private conversation on a public forum. That tends to make me less trusting

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:21:24 PM »

I had his permission.

Red · « **Reply #3 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:22:26 PM »

Quote from: appleHater on December 01, 2011, 09:20:39 PM

Well you can probably start by not posting what was a private conversation on a public forum. That tends to make me less trusting

Do you even play Redemption? Also I was trying to help. Not tech against his list.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:24:54 PM »

im just paranoid over sharing anything cause its always better if no one knows what your playing exactly it makes it easier to win by surprise. and if i have to see you at nats in tennesee then i could lose just because you remember every detail of my deck and play specifically play by play just to counter me.

[watch the language Matt]

appleHater · « **Reply #5 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:31:45 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on December 01, 2011, 09:21:24 PM

I had his permission.

In that case I withdraw my comment.

And Red your question is irrelevant, rather or not someone plays redemption has no effect on realizing that if someone had posted a private conversation on a public forum without the others consent it's a violation of trust and not a good way to start a "how do we get him to trust us?" post

browarod · « **Reply #6 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:54:47 PM »

I've tried to tell him that what he believes about people isn't true, but he just doesn't seem to get it. I don't really know what else to try because words don't seem to be working.

Red · « **Reply #7 on:** December 01, 2011, 09:55:08 PM »

I was wondering seeing as you are on this forum and haven't posted anything Redemption related. But as a whole this is the most paranoid gaming community on the planet when it comes to revealing decklists and such.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #8 on:** December 01, 2011, 10:52:31 PM »

Quote from: Red on December 01, 2011, 09:55:08 PM

I was wondering seeing as you are on this forum and haven't posted anything Redemption related.

That is probably true, but I've sure appreciated his advice in my laptop thread

Quote from: Red on December 01, 2011, 09:55:08 PM

But as a whole this is the most paranoid gaming community on the planet when it comes to revealing decklists and such.

I disagree. All of the top 3 decks for the last several years of Nats are available for anyone to see and copy. On top of that, most of the top players also post decks during the year for people to learn from, and many of the beginning players post decks for advice (which many top players offer freely).

As for the first question as to how to make Matt feel more trusting of others, or less critical of himself as a person just because he sometimes loses Redemption games, I don't have any ideas. I think it is just a personal issue that Matt is going to have to pray about, because really it is going to take a significant internal change, and only God is capable of doing that in his life.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:28:40 PM »

yeah prof underwood makes a point but most of those lists that he refers to don't appear until after the major tourney season has ran its course and even the few that do appear before that are normally weaker versions with certain critical info withheld so that people can get the element of surprise i eluded to earlier. which is why im afraid sharing mine will hurt me more then help.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #10 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:30:43 PM »

(A) I don't think gabe and co hide anything when they do post those decks.
(B) you don't have to post them, but sharing it with a single person who wants to help you is a completely different thing.

appleHater · « **Reply #11 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:34:17 PM »

This applies to any CCG you will ever play.

Could the one person you show your deck to tech against it specifically to beat you? sure, if you assume a few things about that person.
1) They are a HUGE Jerk
2) They don't want to actually win the tournament just beat you

and you are also assuming that...

1) they will play you before they get eliminated, which would be a stretch
2) they play you at all. it's a national tournament if he's teching against you he's gonna be lucky to make it one or two rounds

all in all i think there;s about a .05% chance anyone is doing that right now. now if you win nats a couple years in a row then yeah people are gonna start teching against you, they are also going to start copying you

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #12 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:37:59 PM »

Your first two points are valid, however, since Redemption doesn't run elimination style tournaments at the higher levels your last two points aren't actually applicable to this situation.

Matt,

You and I have had plenty of conversations about this in the past, and I can't really do much more than to echo what Prof U is saying.

appleHater · « **Reply #13 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:40:35 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on December 01, 2011, 11:37:59 PM

Your first two points are valid, however, since Redemption doesn't run elimination style tournaments at the higher levels your last two points aren't actually applicable to this situation.

Matt,

You and I have had plenty of conversations about this in the past, and I can't really do much more than to echo what Prof U is saying.

if he's assuming he's winning Nats if people don't see his deck before hand, than change eliminated to gets moved down the order.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #14 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:43:18 PM »

I think these guys are making some good points as well.

Gabe could post his Nats deck the week before Nats, and still win Nats. He is just that good at not making mistakes, and his decks are just that well built.

Matt, I love you as a Christian brother, but you can keep your deck top secret until Nats, and you still won't win Nats (baring extreme providence on God's part). You just aren't quite up to that level yet. Neither am I for that matter. So at this point, sharing your deck is only going to help you. You'll get some good advice that will probably improve your chances of winning (especially at smaller level tournaments).

And no one is going to tech against your deck at Nats, because the people who are going to be at the top 10 in Nats won't expect you to be there. If you are there, then they won't expect to have to play an "anti-Matt" deck to beat your regular deck. There's just really no downside here. (Again the same could be said for me).

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:46:14 PM »

and the underlaying question why am i not at the level BECAUSE I DON'T PLAY SPEED AND STAND ALONE thats what your answer is and thats exactly the attitude i intend to remove from this game with my deck.

katedid · « **Reply #16 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:49:56 PM »

Skill level has nothing to do with the makeup of the deck. I can play with some of the best put together decks of my friends and I will not do well with them because I have no clue what I am doing or what I am supposed to be doing.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #17 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:55:54 PM »

I've tried to win Nats with an unorthodox deck, too. It's just not possible at this point. The time limits on games makes it impossible to consistently finish games there unless you are playing heavy offense or at least balanced.

You can keep trying to tilt at windmills, but you're only going to frustrate yourself. And with your penchant for judging your self-worth based on your success in Redemption, I really don't think it is a healthy plan for you my friend.

And Katedid is also correct that skill level comes into it as well. Even if your deck was as good as Gabe's, you would still not win Nats. You (and I) make mistakes more often than he does, and you also have a tendency to get emotional sometimes during games. When that happens you are even more likely to make a costly mistake. Until these things change, you will not be able to get to the top level of Redemption players.

However, the fact that you (and I) are not at the top level of Redemption players doesn't AT ALL mean that you aren't an amazing person, and a child of God. You are worth the death of God, and that is infinitely more important than anything that you ever do or don't do with pieces of cardboard.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #18 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:56:30 PM »

Matt,

If you feel like your deck has the ability to beat the fairly standard meta of fast offenses and stand alone defenses, you're going to need a ton of testing - You freely admit that you're not at Gabe, or Tim's level, so again, like Mark says you really have nothing to lose by sharing your deck. For all you know the base idea will be taken and improved upon by the community at large and speed will actually be stopped.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 01, 2011, 11:57:44 PM »

ok a my deck is not the super slow fish that you seem to indicate but you have yet to play me this year mark so ill excuse that oversight and b fix the darn time limits then give us 60 minutes for t12p if your truly an elder then argue to help us

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 02, 2011, 12:00:28 AM »

hmm you may have a point john but id rather it done thru private discussion with me and maybe yourself on aim or skype ill talk but i won't go as far as a public post and as far as the red situation hes getting there and hes a rising star but at this point i need a tested vet

appleHater · « **Reply #21 on:** December 02, 2011, 12:02:37 AM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 01, 2011, 11:46:14 PM

and the underlaying question why am i not at the level BECAUSE I DON'T PLAY SPEED AND STAND ALONE thats what your answer is and thats exactly the attitude i intend to remove from this game with my deck.

if you know that people don't take none speed/standalone decks seriously, then why do you think they would take yours seriously enough to tech against it in the first place...

you want them to change the rules to conform to the deck you want to play otherwise he's not truly doing whats best for the game and it's players?

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #22 on:** December 02, 2011, 12:05:27 AM »

not exactly apple your kinda coming in new to a 5 year old debate

appleHater · « **Reply #23 on:** December 02, 2011, 12:10:54 AM »

let me see if i can guestimate this.

Games were running too long so they added a time limit (since it's not an hour, i'm guessing either 45 min or 30)

A lot of games started timing out, encouraging people to build faster decks.

People realized speed decks were awesomesauce and everyone who wanted to compete started playing them

Now you want to build a non speed deck because you're unhappy with the current achetype, however you realize that your deck has at least an elevated risk of timing out.

Even though the time limit only comes in to play in (and again I'm guessing here) a very small number of games, you want them to change the rule to accomodate the very few players that run in to the issue.

I still don't get it.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #24 on:** December 02, 2011, 12:14:34 AM »

It's more like:

People realized drawing cards wins game.

People yell at speed players, claiming they have no skill

People try to win games, so they play speed.

Pol claims that balanced decks are good

Speed wins nats and every other major tournament

Repeat every year.

News:

Author Topic: Guys, I need some help. (Read 9597 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

appleHater

Lamborghini_diablo

appleHater

browarod

Lamborghini_diablo

appleHater

appleHater

appleHater

appleHater

Rawrlolsauce!