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Open Forum => Off-Topic => Topic started by: goldencomet on June 17, 2010, 02:03:49 AM

Title: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: goldencomet on June 17, 2010, 02:03:49 AM
Do angels have free will?
This is a question that could explain many things, actually.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: adotson85 on June 17, 2010, 02:42:59 AM
There is no scripture that I know of that specifically answers this question. I believe Angels do have free will. The reason I believe this is because 1/3 of the Angels rebelled against God and followed Satan. This rebellion seems to be an example of free will.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: BubbleBoy on June 17, 2010, 12:36:32 PM
Yeah, if Angels don't have free will, then...well, God is just mean. ;)
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: SomeKittens on June 17, 2010, 01:00:23 PM
I've heard them called "God's Secret Agents".  Read the book, didn't answer that question.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Josh on June 17, 2010, 01:02:33 PM
They have to have free will, otherwise they could not love God.  I've heard some people (wiser than me) suggest that their form of free will is somewhat more "rigid" than ours - that perhaps they have the freedom to choose to love God or rebel against Him, but once they make the choice, there is a certain "finality" of it.  Take it for what it's worth - it makes sense in my mind, and it doesn't conflict with anything the Bible teaches (that I can tell).
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Deck Metrics on June 17, 2010, 01:55:46 PM
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Satan's 5 I Will's imply pretty much he had free will since he had a choice.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: goldencomet on June 17, 2010, 02:02:14 PM
I know this is kind of a dangerous question, but I came to the conclusion based on these facts:

Natural disasters are created by God. My thought for this was that God does not want us to have a perfect world, because if there was one coupled with our free will there would really be no desperate need for a God.

Thinking about that...I started to think about whether or not Satan was an accident. Do you think that Satan was created on purpose? God created Satan in order to give us a greater depth of free will?

I know its kind of a strange question but I'd really like to know the answer
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Ironica on June 17, 2010, 03:11:50 PM
Quote
Natural disasters are created by God. My thought for this was that God does not want us to have a perfect world, because if there was one coupled with our free will there would really be no desperate need for a God.

The way I see it, "natural disasters" are God's way to keep the earth going.  They have been there since the begining (or in the case of rain, since Noah's time).  People are the ones who came up with the bright idea to plant their house in front of a hurricane/tornado, build over a fault line, etc.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on June 17, 2010, 04:21:10 PM
Well, originally, the earth was supposed to be perfect,  so I would take that originally there weren't any natural disasters until after the Fall.  I also get the idea that evil in and of itself as an entity or physical characteristic does not exist.  For, if it did, then God would have to have created evil and that would in turn imply that part of God is "evil."  Rather, I would say that "evil" is an absence of God; which would be consistent with how Lucifer's rebellion is described in the Bible.  An example of this ideal in the physical world is in the case of light versus darkness: A light can always get brighter, yet something can only get to a certain level of darkness.  Once all traces of light are gone, you have reached "total darkness" and can't, technically, make something darker.  Feel free to disagree, but I expect some sort of evidence to be included into your counter-opinion.

-C_S
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Warrior_Monk on June 17, 2010, 04:30:52 PM
They have to have free will, otherwise they could not love God.  I've heard some people (wiser than me) suggest that their form of free will is somewhat more "rigid" than ours - that perhaps they have the freedom to choose to love God or rebel against Him, but once they make the choice, there is a certain "finality" of it.  Take it for what it's worth - it makes sense in my mind, and it doesn't conflict with anything the Bible teaches (that I can tell).
are you implying that we need free will to love God?
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: The Schaef on June 17, 2010, 04:38:46 PM
Some angels have free will, others subscribe to will for 1500 Microsoft Points/mo.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Lozo777 on June 18, 2010, 11:30:36 AM
Some angels have free will, others subscribe to will for 1500 Microsoft Points/mo.

pwn. Hahah
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Deck Metrics on June 18, 2010, 02:23:09 PM
I know this is kind of a dangerous question, but I came to the conclusion based on these facts:

Natural disasters are created by God. My thought for this was that God does not want us to have a perfect world, because if there was one coupled with our free will there would really be no desperate need for a God.

Thinking about that...I started to think about whether or not Satan was an accident. Do you think that Satan was created on purpose? God created Satan in order to give us a greater depth of free will?

I know its kind of a strange question but I'd really like to know the answer


I don't think this is a dangerous question. It could dangerous if people wanna argue about it, but to answer your question about natural disasters. I believe that natural disasters are brought about by God as Judgement because He is Just and right and will not allow sin to go unpunished. Look at Sodom & Gamorah. I think fire like brimstone falling down from the sky to nuke two cities is a disaster, but we know it was because of their Sin. Not only that but God even looked for someone to intercede for them, Abraham. There's also Noah's flood... again...SIN. What happens in the natural is determined in the spiritual. The spiritual always supercedes the natural, material world. What are the wages of sin... death right.

Lucifer was created on purpose, go back to my 1st post; v. 13- Lucifer said, "I will exalt my what...MY THRONE". God created Lucifer, NOT SATAN. Some people try to argue that God made Satan so thus He made evil, NOT TRUE. That's dualism, Lucifer became satan.   

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 
Eze 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth;  and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,  till iniquity was found in thee.

Lucifer comes from the root Hebrew word הלל pronouced "halal" which means:

to be clear (originally of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show; to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively to celebrate; also to stultify:--(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool (-ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.

Lucifer WAS the arch angel in charge of worship like Micheal is warriror in charge of the heavenly armies and Gabriel the messager angel. Only he choose to rebel and thus became Satan of his own accord. He had servants and everything, but messed up, big time.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: disciple_drew on June 18, 2010, 05:49:12 PM
 +1 right on, amen.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Warrior_Monk on June 19, 2010, 09:34:28 PM
well, he is your brother.

quick note, I thought dualism is equal conflicting forces that have always existed, not a good guy creating an evil guy.

of course, I'd be willing to argue that Lucifer is Nebby, but we had that discussion already.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Deck Metrics on June 19, 2010, 11:24:58 PM
well, he is your brother.

quick note, I thought dualism is equal conflicting forces that have always existed, not a good guy creating an evil guy.

of course, I'd be willing to argue that Lucifer is Nebby, but we had that discussion already.

arguing is forbided my scripture
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Ironica on June 19, 2010, 11:37:32 PM
There is a difference between discussing something and arguing.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Warrior_Monk on June 19, 2010, 11:59:29 PM
right. I use argue rather loosely.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Crashfach2002 on June 20, 2010, 12:25:15 AM
My thought for this was that God does not want us to have a perfect world

I will have to disagree with this statement.  The Garden of Eden was created perfect (meaning there was no sin present).  If God didn't want us to live in a perfect world why would he give Adam & Eve the opportunity to do just that.  Now granted he gave them a choice (Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge), which gave us free will.  He has always given everybody/everything a choice whether to follow him or not.  Lucifer & his followers thought they were too good to follow God, and humans are too stupid ( :P) to not sin!
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Deck Metrics on June 20, 2010, 02:28:15 PM
There is a difference between discussing something and arguing.

agreed
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Deck Metrics on June 20, 2010, 02:28:38 PM
right. I use argue rather loosely.

k
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Deck Metrics on June 20, 2010, 02:31:31 PM
well, he is your brother.

quick note, I thought dualism is equal conflicting forces that have always existed, not a good guy creating an evil guy.

of course, I'd be willing to argue that Lucifer is Nebby, but we had that discussion already.

For the sake of peace I won't even enter into this discussion.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: deadpool24 on June 20, 2010, 09:36:05 PM
yeah i have to agree that they have free will.  cuz wernt deamons angels at one time? and if they were they would have to choose one way or the other.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Warrior_Monk on June 21, 2010, 12:24:05 AM
well, he is your brother.

quick note, I thought dualism is equal conflicting forces that have always existed, not a good guy creating an evil guy.

of course, I'd be willing to argue that Lucifer is Nebby, but we had that discussion already.

For the sake of peace I won't even enter into this discussion.
nor would I expect you too, considering we've already had it, but if my understanding of dualism is wrong, I'd appreciate a pm!
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Deck Metrics on June 21, 2010, 11:56:48 AM
well, he is your brother.

quick note, I thought dualism is equal conflicting forces that have always existed, not a good guy creating an evil guy.

of course, I'd be willing to argue that Lucifer is Nebby, but we had that discussion already.

well, you also are my brother in Christ!! Haha, no you're right about dualism. The belief that good created evil is an extention of dualism.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on June 21, 2010, 03:30:00 PM
FYI, there are multiple types of dualism... although they usually say something to the effect of "x" dualism. But yeah...
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: cg097 on June 23, 2010, 01:56:08 PM
I don't think this is a dangerous question. It could dangerous if people wanna argue about it, but to answer your question about natural disasters. I believe that natural disasters are brought about by God as Judgement because He is Just and right and will not allow sin to go unpunished. Look at Sodom & Gamorah. I think fire like brimstone falling down from the sky to nuke two cities is a disaster, but we know it was because of their Sin. Not only that but God even looked for someone to intercede for them, Abraham. There's also Noah's flood... again...SIN. What happens in the natural is determined in the spiritual. The spiritual always supercedes the natural, material world. What are the wages of sin... death right.
Of course, Sodom and Gomorrah happened before Jesus established the New Covenant. Natural disasters are not punishment.
John 9: 1As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. 2And his disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" 3Jesus answered, "It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Egg Timer on June 23, 2010, 09:12:31 PM
I think they do, yes.  :angel: Or else they would be slaves.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Minister Polarius on June 23, 2010, 09:50:40 PM
Every time I glance at this topic, I think it says "Do Angels have Free Wi-Fi?"
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: COUNTER_SNIPER on June 23, 2010, 11:37:01 PM
Every time I glance at this topic, I think it says "Do Angels have Free Wi-Fi?"
WYN.
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Professoralstad on June 24, 2010, 11:06:47 AM
Every time I glance at this topic, I think it says "Do Angels have Free Wi-Fi?"

I would guess so. Because if there are no coffee shops in heaven, my poor wife might have a very sluggish and non-alert eternity...
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: Deck Metrics on June 24, 2010, 11:28:34 AM
Every time I glance at this topic, I think it says "Do Angels have Free Wi-Fi?"

haha :)
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: deadpool24 on June 27, 2010, 09:24:39 PM
Every time I glance at this topic, I think it says "Do Angels have Free Wi-Fi?"

haha :)

haha i just did that too!  at first i didnt even knowtis the diference! haha
Title: Re: Do Angels Have Free Will?
Post by: SomeKittens on June 28, 2010, 10:10:58 AM
Well, they all are connected to God, who is omnipresent, giving them the best signal ever!
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