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I know I'll probably get blasted for this, but I must admit that I would not have a problem with saying something that was true and allowing the dumb soldiers to jump to the wrong conclusion.  I wouldn't lie, but I wouldn't correct their ignorance either.

That's known as lying by omission.  It's lying.

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More verses to add to the list:

Joshua 2:3-7
So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab: "Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land." But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, "Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from.  At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don't know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them." (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.) So the men set out in pursuit of the spies on the road that leads to the fords of the Jordan, and as soon as the pursuers had gone out, the gate was shut.

James 2:24-25
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?


Judges 16:6-15
So Delilah said to Samson, "Tell me the secret of your great strength and how you can be tied up and subdued." Samson answered her, "If anyone ties me with seven fresh thongs that have not been dried, I'll become as weak as any other man." Then the rulers of the Philistines brought her seven fresh thongs that had not been dried, and she tied him with them. 9 With men hidden in the room, she called to him, "Samson, the Philistines are upon you!" But he snapped the thongs as easily as a piece of string snaps when it comes close to a flame. So the secret of his strength was not discovered. Then Delilah said to Samson, "You have made a fool of me; you lied to me. Come now, tell me how you can be tied." He said, "If anyone ties me securely with new ropes that have never been used, I'll become as weak as any other man." So Delilah took new ropes and tied him with them. Then, with men hidden in the room, she called to him, "Samson, the Philistines are upon you!" But he snapped the ropes off his arms as if they were threads. Delilah then said to Samson, "Until now, you have been making a fool of me and lying to me. Tell me how you can be tied." He replied, "If you weave the seven braids of my head into the fabric on the loom and tighten it with the pin, I'll become as weak as any other man." So while he was sleeping, Delilah took the seven braids of his head, wove them into the fabric 14 and tightened it with the pin. Again she called to him, "Samson, the Philistines are upon you!" He awoke from his sleep and pulled up the pin and the loom, with the fabric. Then she said to him, "How can you say, 'I love you,' when you won't confide in me? This is the third time you have made a fool of me and haven't told me the secret of your great strength."

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But back to the actual reason for the topic, the questions are there so that they won't get in trouble for allowing a minor to create an online profile.  If you are old enough to make the profile, the birthdate you give simply needs to reflect this.

I've said this before on the many "is lying a sin" threads and I'll say it again. All of those verses cover false witnesses and "liars" or "lying tongues" or something to that end. Given that Rahab, (by your definitions a "liar") is praised for her actions, I find the best way to reconcile the scriptures is that false witness is always bad (lying to harm or for self-benefit) and habitual lying is always bad (those who are "liars" or have a "lying tongue"), but not every lie is a sin to tell.

If you are not lying for gain or for hurt (false witness), or making lies your modus operandi (being a liar/having a lying tongue), lying is sometimes virtuous on a case-to-case basis.

This is the closest thing to what I believe that has been expressed by someone else.  Just as the commandment "Thou shall not Murder" has been misinterpreted into "Thou shall not kill (for any reason whatsoever)"  I believe the prohibitions against lying have been taken to an extreme that God never meant for them to go. 

Quote from: crustpope on October 15, 2009, 10:29:24 PM

When it is y our life to give away, you can trust God all you want, but when otherrs depend upon you, I believe the standing order is to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

I disagree with this.  I think that we should trust God for our own lives and for the lives of others.  When the entire army of Israel was depending on Gideon to lead them to victory, did he trust in God's plan, or did he trust in what seemed smart to him.  Gideon sent thousands of soldiers away to fight with only 300 against an overwhelming force.  Was he throwing their lives away and doing something wrong?  Of course not, he was trusting their lives in God's hands.  "But God told him to do that" you might say.  "And God told us to NOT lie" I reply.

And did Gideon not "mislead" or act diceptively with the amalkite ( I beleive it was the amaliktes) army?  when he led them to believe that he had more than 300 soldiers?  If God sanctions deception when the army of Israel is acting against an enemy, why can he not sanction deception for his believers agains those who are clearly acting with evil intent to harm others? (i.e.  the Nazi's)

If Rahab was justified and considered righteous for protecting the spies then those who protected Jews from the Nazis were justified.

There was an old man sitting on his porch watching the rain fall. Pretty soon the water was coming over the porch and into the house.
 
  The old man was still sitting there when a rescue boat came and the people on board said, "You can't stay here you have to come with us."
 
  The old man replied, "No, God will save me." So the boat left. A little while later the water was up to the second floor, and another rescue boat came, and again they told the old man he had to come with them.
 
  The old man again replied, "God will save me." So the boat left him again.
 
  An hour later the water was up to the roof and a third rescue boat approached the old man, and tried to get him to come with them.
 
  Again the old man refused to leave stating that, "God will grant a miracle & save me." So the boat left him again.
 
  Soon after, the man drowns and goes to heaven, and when he sees God he asks him, "Why didn't you save me? I thought you would grant me a miracle and you have let me down."
 
  God replied, "I tried...I sent three boats after you."

Sometimes God gives us a way out, but it's still up to us to take it.

I'm not in favor of lying, nut just to add some fuel to the "lying by omission" fire...

1 Samuel 16:1-5

The LORD said to Samuel, "How long will you mourn for Saul, since I have rejected him as king over Israel? Fill your horn with oil and be on your way; I am sending you to Jesse of Bethlehem. I have chosen one of his sons to be king." But Samuel said, "How can I go? Saul will hear about it and kill me." The LORD said, "Take a heifer with you and say, `I have come to sacrifice to the LORD.' Invite Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will show you what to do. You are to anoint for me the one I indicate." Samuel did what the LORD said. When he arrived at Bethlehem, the elders of the town trembled when they met him. They asked, "Do you come in peace?" Samuel replied, "Yes, in peace; I have come to sacrifice to the LORD. Consecrate yourselves and come to the sacrifice with me." Then he consecrated Jesse and his sons and invited them to the sacrifice.

Killing isn't war (hence the wars God sanctioned). Murder is wrong. Killing is a poor translation of the passage.

I agree with your distinction.  I'm not the one who is calling it a capitulation to relativism to say there's a difference.

I have discovered that about everybody has considered what I did a "lie."  I don't see it that way but sometimes perception is reality.  I must backtrack on my earlier thoughts.  I still do not give out my birthdate and other personal info, but I have come to realize that I may have to sacrifice some things for that choice.

I appreciate your servants heart in being willing to make personal sacrifices to maintain integrity, even when it is an issue that could be compared to meat sacrificed to idols (not a lie in your perception, but a lie in other's perception).  I would have respected you whatever you decided, but I'm glad you ended up on this side of the issue.

James 2:24-25
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

I should have responded to this earlier.  James is saying that Rahab was considered righteous (even though she was a prostitute) because she did the right thing with the spies.  She gave the spies a place to stay, and then she helped them get out of the city a different way than they came in (through the window in the wall).  This passage does NOT commend her for lying to the soldiers of Jericho.

The Bible also says that King David was a "man after God's own heart".  That doesn't mean that having an affair, or giving orders to have the husband of your mistress killed, etc. are good things.  The heroes in the Bible have lives that include good choices and bad choices.  The Bible commends them for their good choices, but that doesn't justify the bad ones.

As a side note, I think it adds credibility to the Bible that it shows the weaknesses of its heroes

Yes, and I understand that... but it's also a command to not murder. Yet we go into war. Are all wars bad? Was Ehud wrong?

Like I said, I think it all comes down to your intent.

Murder is different from killing. Death penalty and wars are not murder by biblical standards.

Doesn't that distinction violate the idea of locking in on the "direct command" and following it to the letter, though?

we have several examples of God telling and approving of people lying to others

I think you may have missed my most recent post above where I demonstrated that the Bible does not "approve" of Rahab's lying itself.  I think you will find that this is also the case with all the other people you listed.  God approved of them overall, but that doesn't mean that everything they did was good, and I don't think there are any verses that directly demonstrate that a lie (specifically referring to telling something that is NOT true) was a good thing.

What about America's spies in other nations? They lie every day to stay secret, and they are protecting our nation by getting us information.

the very action that she was commended for INCLUDED decieving those looking for the spies.

Where in the Bible does it say that Rahab was commended for lying to the soldiers.  I think it only commends her for taking in the spies and then helping them escape out the window.

You are splitting hairs...My contention is that not all lies are bad.  My proof is that God has sacntion lies and dishonest behavior in the bible on multiple occasions

I think I understand our fundamental difference in perspective now.  You take a broad definition of "lying", and then conclude that it must not always be wrong because God supports some things that people say and do which trick people.  I take a narrow definition of "lying", and then conclude that it is always wrong because God never supports specifically telling someone something that isn't true.

Not to mention that there isn't even a direct command not to lie. Just not to bear false witness.