Author Topic: DC Talk: Jesus Freak to be on Rock Band!!!!!!!!!! (Read 9741 times)

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #50 on:** August 22, 2010, 05:23:56 PM »

You're going to continue to limit God and his plan, and I'm going to continue to insist that God's endgame is far above an individual. You're going to continue advocating direct preaching as the only acceptable form of evangelism, I'm going to insist that there are different cogs in the wheel. You're going to continue making it sound like I don't think I, or anyone, should ever preach directly ever, and I'm going to continue to try to argue from somewhere other than an extreme by merely countering your polar assertions.

If there's someone who's never heard about Jesus, I'll send them to you. If there's someone who's interested in learning doctrine or has hard questions about what Jesus requires of His followers, I feel more comfortable handling that myself.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #51 on:** August 22, 2010, 05:49:32 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 22, 2010, 05:23:56 PM

You're going to continue to limit God and his plan, and I'm going to continue to insist that God's endgame is far above an individual.

We're far from "limiting" His plan by teaching others about it. Though I do agree that God's endgame is far above any of us, so are elections. Yet they still come down to the individual and their choice.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 22, 2010, 05:23:56 PM

You're going to continue advocating direct preaching as the only acceptable form of evangelism, I'm going to insist that there are different cogs in the wheel.

Since when have we done that? I've seen mention of many different ways (one involving my favorite, food). All we're saying is that direct evangelism (not just preaching) is a key part in expanding the kingdom. Everyone's different, but the Great Commission, just like salvation, is for everyone. How would you respond to someone who said "Why Christianity? There's different cogs in the machine?"

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 22, 2010, 05:23:56 PM

You're going to continue making it sound like I don't think I, or anyone, should ever preach directly ever, and I'm going to continue to try to argue from somewhere other than an extreme by merely countering your polar assertions.

It's fairly clear you're thinking from an extreme yourself. Again, following the Great Commission is something all Christ-followers should aspire to. If one (anyone, not you) wants to just be a "Christian" and sit in a pew, that's their own decision, but it's not what Jesus spoke of.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 22, 2010, 05:23:56 PM

If there's someone who's never heard about Jesus, I'll send them to you. If there's someone who's interested in learning doctrine or has hard questions about what Jesus requires of His followers, I feel more comfortable handling that myself.

How many people enter the kingdom by debating doctrine? These people certainly didn't. (Warning, unsure of language in link)

JSB23 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 22, 2010, 09:08:08 PM »

Sorry to inject reality into this debate but let's look and the facts.
In today's world who are people more apt to emulate?
Someone who tries to do what's right and just be a good person
or
Someone who tries to talk about Jesus and God whenever they get a chance?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #53 on:** August 22, 2010, 09:49:05 PM »

Quote from: JSB23 on August 22, 2010, 09:08:08 PM

Sorry to inject reality into this debate but let's look and the facts.
In today's world who are people more apt to emulate?
Someone who tries to do what's right and just be a good person
or
Someone who tries to talk about Jesus and God whenever they get a chance?

That's all based on opinion and isn't quantifiable. Nor is it "injecting reality". Everyone's different, and if you try to generalize, people will get both mad and hurt. There's something different for every situation.

If someone acts like Christ, then people will be drawn toward them. Jesus was out there, and talked about God a lot. He also offended people. But let's note that he offended them with the truth.
Sorry, slightly off topic, that's one of my pet peeves

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #54 on:** August 22, 2010, 10:52:58 PM »

Kittens, that post was directed much more at Bryon than you. I personally don't think we disagree about anything on this issue; we have differing perspectives. I agree that at some points (often super-frequently) in every Follower's life he will be called on to testify to the Light, but I put more emphasis on seed sowing and tag-team endgame (something I have experienced much more frequently). In other words, in my experience, infrequently (in America) does the first person to tell a lost soul about Jesus "close the deal." Much, much more often, a convert will have heard about Christ and rejected him until someone with a greater investment in his life lives out Jesus. And then talks about Him, of course

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #55 on:** August 22, 2010, 11:24:33 PM »

I knew you were Pentecostal when you mentioned you went to Master's Commission, Kittens. I used to go an Assemblies Church. Now I go to a PCA church.

Anywho, I would largely agree with Pol's work here. It seems to me that the opposing viewpoint is limiting God by forcing humans into the equation. We do not need to be in the equation, we must merely not attempt to break the equation. Sometimes this involves speaking, sometimes not speaking, and sometimes perhaps even allowing someone to be right (even when they are not). It is about not being a stumbling to the equation.

However, in His great plan, for some unknown reason, God has made human interaction the primary catalyst for interest in the Him. This can be through action, relationship building, or preaching (and other things of course). However, ultimately, that is only a beginning, and it does not work because you do it well. It works because God wishes to work (or not work, who am I to judge?).

In many ways, this is an argument of election vs. moral agency or omniscience vs. open theism (ok, so the second one is a stretch for sure).

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #56 on:** August 22, 2010, 11:32:39 PM »

I really hope this this isn't just boiling down to Alex and I being reformed Presbyterians and Kitteh and Bryon being charismatic...

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #57 on:** August 22, 2010, 11:39:36 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 22, 2010, 11:32:39 PM

I really hope this this isn't just boiling down to Alex and I being reformed Presbyterians and Kitteh and Bryon being charismatic...

I don't know where Bryon stands on the issues, so I don't know, but that's the general vibe I get from other people of Kittens' (is that the proper pluralization?) viewpoint, and I can only go with what I know.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #58 on:** August 23, 2010, 12:02:34 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 22, 2010, 11:32:39 PM

I really hope this this isn't just boiling down to Alex and I being reformed Presbyterians and Kitteh and Bryon being charismatic...

I like to think I think for myself and not with any party line. What you don't know is that I was Presbyterian until I was 16, so I'm not indoctrinated and clueless.

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on August 22, 2010, 11:39:36 PM

Kittens' (is that the proper pluralization?)

The viewpoint of the poster who is to be known as SomeKittens is what's normally used. It got too confusing otherwise.

Basically, I think the most important point here is the Great Commission. I can safely assume we all agree there?

The highlighted word for me is "Go". Clearly, we can't all get everyone saved by sitting on the couch watching The Simpsons. We need to do something. My one qualm with Alex and Pol is how clearly we are supposed to relate that something to Jesus.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #59 on:** August 23, 2010, 12:27:09 AM »

Personally, I would prefer the word reformed, not presbyterian (that's just the governmental system, not nearly as important).

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #60 on:** August 23, 2010, 12:45:44 AM »

I do as well, but people don't generally know what that means. And to be fair, the "P" in "PCA" does stand for something

I could tell that you haven't been charismatic your whole life because we've been able to have a civil, logical discussion about something other than feelings

I agree that, while we may differ on methodology, we both agree that the important part is to avoid the sidelines.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #61 on:** August 23, 2010, 12:50:02 AM »

Reformed Presbyterian means "stubborn blockhead" in my area, so I try to avoid it's use.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #62 on:** August 23, 2010, 01:06:42 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 23, 2010, 12:45:44 AM

I could tell that you haven't been charismatic your whole life because we've been able to have a civil, logical discussion about something other than feelings

While Jesus was the "Rock of our Offense", you may want to look into "Lest we offend some". I know plenty of Pentecostals who are perfectly capable of rational thought, and 90% of said Presbyterian church was offended if you mentioned the "E-word". (Evangelism)

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #63 on:** August 23, 2010, 01:16:07 AM »

FWIW, Presbyterianism has a terrible stereotype of being an old person's denomination.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #64 on:** August 23, 2010, 01:18:42 AM »

The Presbyterian church I belong to in Franklin is primarily young people, very active in missions and evangelism, and is one of the most vibrant churches in the area. So yeah, idk if the stereotype is warranted, but it doesn't apply to Parish.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #65 on:** August 23, 2010, 01:25:07 AM »

I agree. Calvinism was actually named the #3 idea changing the world in 2008/2009. Hardly an old person thing nowadays.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #66 on:** August 23, 2010, 04:27:32 PM »

Well, my church fit the stereotype, which is exactly why I left.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #67 on:** August 23, 2010, 04:36:51 PM »

What presbyterian denomination was your church a part of?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #68 on:** August 23, 2010, 04:49:03 PM »

uhh, the presbyterian one? Not reformed by any means. Most in there wanted it to be a social club.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #69 on:** August 23, 2010, 04:51:14 PM »

Well, check out how many there are here. Granted, that is a reformed church listing, but most Presbyterian Churches worth their weight in salt will be there.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #70 on:** August 23, 2010, 04:57:06 PM »

Couldn't find it, sorry. I'll ask my dad tomorrow.
Though they weren't exactly "worth their weight in salt"
You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men. Matt 5:13

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #71 on:** August 23, 2010, 04:59:45 PM »

There are quite a few on the list that aren't worth their weight in salt either. Such as the PCUSA. They ordain women and homosexuals. Clearly reformed. (that is clearly sarcasm)

SomeKittens · « **Reply #72 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:04:19 PM »

Hmm. While I was there, we had a woman pastor. I can see what's wrong with ordaining current sinners, but what sin is it to be female?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #73 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:09:26 PM »

For someone claiming to read the Bible literally as much as possible, I don't get some of your thoughts. Here is a fun article for you about it.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #74 on:** August 23, 2010, 05:25:54 PM »

The subsection "Does this also mean that women shouldn't wear jewelry?" claims that the objections failed to properly exegete the scripture in question. They would rather we interpret the jewelry passage in a cultural context, and look at the order of the verses.

So really, they want one piece literal, and one not so much. Funny how that works.

News:

Author Topic: DC Talk: Jesus Freak to be on Rock Band!!!!!!!!!! (Read 9741 times)