Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Is cussing a sin?

Yes side: (1) We are held accountable for every idle word. (2) We are to be light and salt. (3) in the world not of it.

No side: (1) Cussing is a cultural thing... a curse word here in America can mean nothing in Tokyo. (2) The apostle Paul uses a very harsh slang word for "dung" which (i've heard, but i can't unfortunately back it up) was the equivalent of curse word in the original language. (3) We are given Christian liberty in Romans

I realize I elaborated a little more on the no side, because I think for the most part, the yes side is self explanatory and the direction most of us lean. This is just something I've been mauling over. Please be mature if you decide to discuss this. I'm not advocating "filthy speech" I just wanted to know where most of you guys stood.. or if you'd even given it much thought.

Remember the posting guidelines!

All things are permissible, and not all things are advisable. Don't eat meat sacrificed to idols if it causes your brother to stumble.

Cursing is entirely situational, like lying. Sometimes it's a sin, sometimes it isn't. If you are in a situation and you need something done NOW, and it's very important, not cursing can be a sin if by refraining you aren't able to accomplish what needs to be accomplished. However, cursing in anger is a sin; the sin is not cursing, the sin is harboring violence in your heart for whomever you are cursing.

Cursing shouldn't be your MO, just as you shouldn't be a liar, but sometimes cursing, and lying, are not only not sin, but imperative.

Not always. Read The Hiding Place if you don't believe me, or just wait for your wife to ask her if she looks fat.

Colossians 3:8
"But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips."

Ephesians 5:3-5
"But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

Ephesians 4:29
"Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen."

Cussing is a cultural thing... a curse word here in America can mean nothing in Tokyo.

But the actual act of cursing is frowned on, no matter where you are.  Saying a lie in English in Tokyo would also mean nothing there.

The apostle Paul uses a very harsh slang word for "dung" which (i've heard, but i can't unfortunately back it up) was the equivalent of curse word in the original language.

I've heard that before, too, but can find neither a reliable source that translates it this way, nor proof that it was considered a bad word at the time.

Cursing is entirely situational, like lying. Sometimes it's a sin, sometimes it isn't. If you are in a situation and you need something done NOW, and it's very important, not cursing can be a sin if by refraining you aren't able to accomplish what needs to be accomplished.

So if I really need to do something, some of the acts that God says will keep us out of Heaven (ie, lying) are permissible?

Not always. Read The Hiding Place if you don't believe me, or just wait for your wife to ask her if she looks fat.

Had Jesus been married, would He have lied to His wife if she asked Him that question? I think not.

Lying is always a sin (after all, the commandment not to bear false witness has no stipulation). But in certain cases (such as with Corrie Ten Boom in The Hiding Place, or with the harlot Rahab who hid Jewish spies (I forget where, exactly, in Scripture that's found -- I think it's in Joshua), because God is rich in mercy, He seems not to punish sins that were used to protect the innocent. It doesn't make it right, it just means God understood the situation and won't hold it against you.

Swearing is always a sin (after all, it goes against Colossians 3:8, et al), and under no circumstances would swearing ever be a necessity. If you were ever in a life or death situation, you could get out of it just as easily by not swearing as you could by swearing. It's never necessary.

Additionally, sure swearing is a cultural thing. But God looks at the heart; it's the intention behind the word. If I say, "I just got cut; my hand is bloody," there's nothing wrong with that, even though the last word in that sentence is a harsh profanity in England. Just let the Scriptures speak for themselves. After all, it's all inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16). So if it tells us to not let any unclean speech into our language, I think we ought to listen.

I figured you'd be closed-minded, but it was worth a try. Maybe even worth one more try.

Lying is always a sin (after all, the commandment not to bear false witness has no stipulation).

Define "bearing false witness" for me. That's legal terminology, and if you want to go all literal, that is a commandment not to lie in court. Which I agree with. Be careful before you invoke an extreme. That verse proves nothing as a too-literal reading will yield only an admonition not to lie in court, and from any other stand point it can just as easily be interpreted as a ban on lying with malicious intent or for personal gain.

But in certain cases (such as with Corrie Ten Boom in The Hiding Place, or with the harlot Rahab who hid Jewish spies (I forget where, exactly, in Scripture that's found), because God is rich in mercy, He seems not to punish sins that were used to protect the innocent.

God is Holy and Just. Isn't it more likely that he "won't hold it against you" because it's not a sin?

Swearing is always a sin (after all, it goes against Colossians 3:8, et al)

I've already answered this, so you're being unhelpful by bringing up again without a counter-rebuttal.

This paragraph I agree with. Except for the part where you insist on going with the NIV translation only.

If you want to admit you don't have an answer, admit it. Hiding behind false dignity isn't going to cut it at this point. I will, one more time, explain why you aren't making sense.

I am also a literalist. I am also not presumptuous enough to assume everything is always as it appears. People have maimed themselves and others because of a too-literal interpretation of scripture. I believe that the earth was created in six days. I also believe that some or all of those days are tallied from the center of the universe, with the perspective shifting to earth no later than when man is created. That's a 100% literal interpretation of Genesis, but it's not the interpretation you make.

I don't disagree with you because you are closed-minded. I gave specific, logical and spiritually sound reasons for why I disagree with you, and they did not include your closed-mindedness. And calling someone closed-minded is only an insult if taken as such. I am proud of being closed-minded about many things. You misunderstand me: if you're closed-minded about some things, more power to you. I'm just not going to waste any more of my time on debating you if this is one of the things you are closed-minded about.

*EDIT* FYI nothing. In KJV and ESV it has a different phraseology that fits better with the rest of scripture.

If you want to admit you don't have an answer, admit it. Hiding behind false dignity isn't going to cut it at this point. I will, one more time, explain why you aren't making sense.

I am also a literalist. I am also not presumptuous enough to assume everything is always as it appears. People have maimed themselves and others because of a too-literal interpretation of scripture. I believe that the earth was created in six days. I also believe that some or all of those days are tallied from the center of the universe, with the perspective shifting to earth no later than when man is created. That's a 100% literal interpretation of Genesis, but it's not the interpretation you make.

I don't disagree with you because you are closed-minded. I gave specific, logical and spiritually sound reasons for why I disagree with you, and they did not include your closed-mindedness. And calling someone closed-minded is only an insult if taken as such. I am proud of being closed-minded about many things. You misunderstand me: if you're closed-minded about some things, more power to you. I'm just not going to waste any more of my time on debating you if this is one of the things you are closed-minded about.

*EDIT* FYI nothing. In KJV and ESV it has a different phraseology that fits better with the rest of scripture.

I do have an answer. But if you're just going to call me closed-minded for having an answer, then my time is best spent elsewhere. I'm not "hiding behind false dignity", I just don't want to waste my time with someone who won't give my arguments a fair hearing. I don't argue for the sake of being right. But I also don't twist Scripture to meet my interpretation, as you are doing. If Colossians says to keep filthy language out of your mouth, how else can you take that other than "don't swear and talk dirty"? You are trying to contort it to mean only what you think it does in conjunction with other verses. Not only does it go against Scripture but swearing also makes a person sound uneducated.

Oh, and I'd love to hear how a "literal interpretation" of Genesis involves measuring time from the center of the universe rather than how we understand time here.

Also, Colin, you disprove nothing with your statement. Whether or not the Disciples understood it or not, God understood language. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (2 Timothy 3:16) and so Paul, whether he understood it or not (though I would lean towards that he did understand languages), would be able to accurately give us admonishions to keep filthy language out of our mouths.

I give your arguments a fair hearing and find them misguided. We've been over Colossians, there are translations that make it sound like all swearing is off limits period, and there are translations that make it sound like foolish speech (or, unwonted cursing) is off limits. The latter is more in sync with the rest of scripture (including, may I remind you, two verses you yourself posted), so I will go with how those translators read the Greek.

God says there was a day, and then a day, and then a day etc. and I believe him. The earth was created in six days. However, time is relative. I'm not going to go into that unless you were not just being snide when you said you would love to hear...and so on.

*EDIT* Majority is a stretch, Colin.

There is a trove of scientific archeological evidence that strongly points to an old earth. There are also even stronger anthropological evidences that point to an earth ~8000 years old (such as tracing genomes and language patterns). These sets of evidences are seemingly irreconcilable with the Genesis account of creation. How can the earth be millions of years old, but humanity be thousands of years old if it came to be six days after the creation of the earth?

The answer is that time is not a constant, and that the universe is expanding. If I were to send a radio signal from the centre of the universe at creation, and then send a second one a second later, they would reach a given point on the outer expansion far more than a second apart. Therefore, a logical explaination that allows for both a literal interpretation of Genesis and acceptance of scientific discoveries is that the days in at least some of the creation account are measured from that central point. There, only days would have passed. Elsewhere in the universe, time does not follow the same path. It is faster, because the universe is expanding.

I have found this to be the best way to explain why some evidences point to an old earth, and others to young humanity. And still literally interpret the bible.

*EDIT* I apologize for assuming you were being snide. That seems to be the MO in internet debates and it's refreshing that you don't conform to that mold.

There is a trove of scientific archeological evidence that strongly points to an old earth. There are also even stronger anthropological evidences that point to an earth ~8000 years old (such as tracing genomes and language patterns). These sets of evidences are seemingly irreconcilable with the Genesis account of creation. How can the earth be millions of years old, but humanity be thousands of years old if it came to be six days after the creation of the earth?

The answer is that time is not a constant, and that the universe is expanding. If I were to send a radio signal from the centre of the universe at creation, and then send a second one a second later, they would reach a given point on the outer expansion far more than a second apart. Therefore, a logical explaination that allows for both a literal interpretation of Genesis and acceptance of scientific discoveries is that the days in at least some of the creation account are measured from that central point. There, only days would have passed. Elsewhere in the universe, time does not follow the same path. It is faster, because the universe is expanding.

I have found this to be the best way to explain why some evidences point to an old earth, and others to young humanity. And still literally interpret the bible.

*EDIT* I apologize for assuming you were being snide. That seems to be the MO in internet debates and it's refreshing that you don't conform to that mold.

I'm glad you contributed that to the discussion.........about cussing

I think that we should control our tongue. The Bible clearly says not to allow filthy language out of our mouth. That is enough for me.

I would put cussing and drinking alcohol in much the same category.  They are behaviors that are not particularly good for you (who actually drinks 6oz of wine ONLY when they are drinking).  More importantly, they are also behaviors that non-Christians associate as being unChristlike.  Therefore, when Christians do them, it causes non-Christians to either view them as hypocrites, or to view Christianity as not really making any difference in a person's life.  That's not a message that I want my life to be sending.

My personal opinion is also that people who cuss lack either the vocabulary or the self-control to express themselves better.

(who actually drinks 6oz of wine ONLY when they are drinking)

I do.  6oz of a nice merlot goes well with the steaks I BBQ.