Author Topic: Current NBA Dream-Team (Read 5969 times)

lightningninja · « **on:** February 15, 2010, 01:15:21 AM »

Alright NBA fans, make your dream team (forget injuries or conference). What would be your starting, and your backup for each position?

Point Guard: Steve Nash, Dwayne Wayde
2nd (shoot) Guard: Chauncy Billups, Kobe Bryant
Forwards: Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony, Dirk Nowitzki and Kevin Garnett
Center: Dwight Howard (My favorite player in the NBA), not sure on a second string for this one.

Okay so I need some explaining to do... Bryant and Wade won't start because it'd be an "I'm the best" frenzy. Kobe is a complete ballhog, although he is good, and so is Wade. However, since I consider Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony better, I'd rather them be the ballhogs. Steve Nash leads the league in assists and is a great team player (works perfectly), Chauncy Billups is great for the three-pointers in a clutch situation, and Dwight Howard gets the rebounds, sets good picks, is the best defensive player in the league and shoots the threes (

for those who saw the All-Star games). So yeah, this team would be undefeated for SURE!

Heck... while we're at it, why not make an all-time list as well?

Point Guard: Michael Jordon, Jerry West (He could be point or shoot guard, doesn't matter)
2nd (shoot) Guard: Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Larry Bird (he played forward but I'd want him there)
Forwards: Julius "Dr. J" Earving and Lebron James (yeah, I think he's THAT good), Elgin Baylor and James Worthy
Center: Dwight Howard (I need a defensive side... okay seriously I just like Dwight Howard), Bill Russel

This is self-explanatory.... you wouldn't need a slam-dunk contest... cause this would be it!

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #1 on:** February 15, 2010, 08:50:05 AM »

Quote from: lightningninja on February 15, 2010, 01:15:21 AM

This is self-explanatory....

Yes, it explains that you are a bit too biased toward current stars

Point Guard: John Stockton, Jason Kidd ~~Magic Johnson~~
Shooting Guard: Michael Jordan, Reggie Miller
Forwards: Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Dr. J
Center: Wilt Chamberlain, Shaq

Sean · « **Reply #2 on:** February 15, 2010, 09:07:34 AM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on February 15, 2010, 08:50:05 AM

Quote from: lightningninja on February 15, 2010, 01:15:21 AM
This is self-explanatory....
Yes, it explains that you are a bit too biased toward current stars

Point Guard: John Stockton, Magic Johnson
Shooting Guard: Michael Jordan, Reggie Miller
Forwards: Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Dr. J
Center: Shaq, Wilt Chamberlain

! no Bill Russell?!

Quote

Point Guard: Michael Jordon, Jerry West (He could be point or shoot guard, doesn't matter)
2nd (shoot) Guard: Earvin "Magic" Johnson, Larry Bird (he played forward but I'd want him there)
Forwards: Julius "Dr. J" Earving and Lebron James (yeah, I think he's THAT good), Elgin Baylor and James Worthy
Center: Dwight Howard (I need a defensive side... okay seriously I just like Dwight Howard), Bill Russel

You've got you're positions all mixed up dude.

Here's Mine
Point: Magic Johnson, Steve Nash
Shooting Guard: Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant
Small Forward: Lebron James, Larry Bird
Power Forward: Tim Duncan, Karl Malone
Center: Bill Russel, Wilt Chamberlain

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #3 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:16:39 AM »

Quote from: Sean on February 15, 2010, 09:07:34 AM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on February 15, 2010, 08:50:05 AM
Center: Shaq, Wilt Chamberlain
! no Bill Russell?!

I think that Bill Russell is a bit overhyped actually. He won a lot of championships, but that was because he was on teams that had so many other superstars. He personally didn't really do that much compared to these other centers. When I think of a center, I want someone who will rebound the ball, block opponents, score a bunch of points, and force the defense to collapse around the basket to free up their teammates for open shots. All Bill had was rebounds.
Points Rebounds Blocks
Wilt #5 #1 **
Shaq #4 #14 #7
Bill ** #2 **

** - not in the top 25 for career.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #4 on:** February 15, 2010, 10:43:01 AM »

Quote from: Sean on February 15, 2010, 09:07:34 AM

Point: Magic Johnson, Steve Nash

What, no John Stockton?

In fact, when I went back and looked at the stats, I even changed my mind about Magic. When I think of a point guard, I want someone who will get a ton of assists on offense, and a ton of steals on defense. How do these guys match up?

Assists Steals
John Stockton #1 #1
Jason Kidd #2 #6
Magic Johnson #4 #15
Steve Nash #8 **

** - not in the top 25 for career.

lightningninja · « **Reply #5 on:** February 15, 2010, 03:44:51 PM »

Hm... those are interesting stats prof. However, when you look at people's comments on Bill Russel or people talking about him, it's clear that he was known for amazing rebounds, and great man-to-man defense. Maybe not statistically, but he's still known as a great defensive player. And hey, for defense that's why I chose Dwight.

Also, he's in there for a very similar reason that STAMP picked Tom Brady as a top quarterback; he knows how to win games. He's THE BEST rebounder to ever play the game, and he'll be able to match up to any center who's playing or ever did play. He's just a great player.

As for Sean, yeah I know I got some positions mixed up, but like seriously Michael Jordon can't be a point guard?

That's where I'd want them, not necessarily where they actually played.

Prof I had no idea about those John Stockton stats, I'd replace Steve Nash for him, and possibly Magic Johnson, although I'd still probably keep him. I didn't realize that about Jason Kidd either... I didn't consider him a top-tier player... but those stats are great.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #6 on:** February 15, 2010, 04:11:02 PM »

Stats are stats. Nothing replaces winning.

Rubber band warrior · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2010, 04:19:14 PM »

I'm just wondering how somebody who started a basketball thread doesn't know how to spell Michael Jordan's name right

Jordan, like the river.

Sean · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2010, 05:21:54 PM »

Stockton is definitely a top 5 point guard of all time but he doesn't have anywhere near the skill that Magic had and I also think Stockton greatly benefited from the system he played in under Sloan. Magic also had a shortened carrier whereas Stockton played for 20 years. Magic won championships, Stockton did not. That said, I'm kinda wondering why I put Malone on my team over some others... I should change that.

Jason Kidd is so good. I like Nash better though because he's a better shooter.

Assists and Steals are only two stats. Stockton was never a high scorer but Magic and Nash can put up points easily. Besides that, the Assist/Turnover ratio is a much better indicator of how good a point guard is. I'd guess that Stockton has the best one there but Magic and Nash aren't far behind and since they can both put up points far better than Stockton, they get played over him if I were picking.

The Guardian · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2010, 06:30:50 PM »

Also keep in mind that athletically, I'm not sure Stockton (even in his prime) could guard many of the quicker point guards we have today. Can you picture Stockton trying to guard Derrick Rose?

My team:
Guards: Jordan, James (both of them can distribute and score and they are smart enough to realize which they need to do at any given point in a game)

Forwards: Magic Johnson, Russell

Center: Chamberlain

Coach: Phil Jackson (you definitely need a coach who can handle all those superstars otherwise it won't work very well)

lightningninja · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2010, 12:18:53 AM »

Hm... some interesting position switches Guardian. But do you think some of those players would still be great today? Wilt Chamberlain was great in the day where there was almost NO ONE as big or strong as he was, and there was no 3 second rule for the key. He'd have trouble nowadays I think against players like Shaq (in his prime, not now), Dwight Howard, and players like that.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #11 on:** February 16, 2010, 08:34:21 AM »

Quote from: lightningninja on February 15, 2010, 03:44:51 PM

Bill Russel ...knows how to win games. He's THE BEST rebounder to ever play the game

As for being a winner, he played with Bob Cousy (#14 all time in assists), John Havlecek (#11 all time in points). Put me on that team and we'd win championships too

The only player that I know of who should get credit for knowing "how to win games" is Michael Jordan. He played with a bunch of nobodies and won 6 championships in less than a decade. Scottie Pippen could steal the ball, and Dennis Rodman could rebound, but other than that none of Jordan's teammates show up in the top 25 in any category. They were all average players, but Jordan knew how to win with them.

Quote from: lightningninja on February 16, 2010, 12:18:53 AM

He'd have trouble nowadays I think against players like Shaq (in his prime, not now), Dwight Howard, and players like that.

I actually disagree with the idea that older players couldn't compete today. The only reason why players today are faster, stronger, etc. is because they have access to better dietary and training information. If the older players were playing today, they would be taking advantage of those same things and therefore would still be as dominant.

What made them great was their dedication to their sport and their motivation to win. Those would be the very things that would still get them to be the best even if they played today.

lightningninja · « **Reply #12 on:** February 16, 2010, 11:21:54 AM »

So then Magic Johnson shouldn't be considered good cause he had Kareme (I have no idea how to spell that)? And Kobe isn't good because he had Shaq, and vice versa? You can't say a player isn't top 3 material cause he had other good players.

In addition, he was better than the other players. Imo, he was the centerpiece of that team.

Sean · « **Reply #13 on:** February 16, 2010, 12:04:45 PM »

Let me know when any other center wins 11 or more championships and I might consider putting them ahead of Russel.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #14 on:** February 16, 2010, 12:09:38 PM »

Pippen averaged 17.5 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 1.9 SPG, and 5 APG throughout his career. Rodman had 7.3 PPG, 13.1 RPG, 1.8 APG, and .7 SPG. By contrast, Cousy averaged 17.5 PPG, 7.5 APG, 5.2 RPG. with no measurements on steals. Havlicek had 20.8 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 4.8 APG, and 1.2 SPG(only recorded in his final 4 season though).

I don't see how Cousy and Havlicek far surpass Pippen and Rodman like you seem to think.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2010, 01:03:42 PM »

Quote from: lightningninja on February 16, 2010, 11:21:54 AM

So then Magic Johnson shouldn't be considered good cause he had Kareme

I'm not saying that just because someone has great teammates they can't be a great player. I'm just saying that if they are on a great team, then they better have some great personal stats to show that they weren't along for the ride. And Bill Russell, just doesn't have those personal stats. He was a great center. He deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. But he is not one of the best 2 centers to ever play the game.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2010, 04:50:32 PM »

Russell averaged 15.1 PPG, 22.5 RPG, and 4.3 APG. Blocks were not even measured when he played.

How are those not great personal stats for a center?

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2010, 05:00:51 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 16, 2010, 04:50:32 PM

Russell averaged 15.1 PPG, 22.5 RPG, and 4.3 APG. Blocks were not even measured when he played.
How are those not great personal stats for a center?

They are good. But they're just not as good as Wilt or Shaq. I agree he was a great player, just not as good as Wilt or Shaq. All stats aside, if Bill (6'10" 220lbs) was facing Shaq (7'1" 325lbs), who do you think would dominate? Shaq would clearly score more points almost for sure block more shots. Bill might have a couple more rebounds, but I doubt even that given this particular match-up.

lightningninja · « **Reply #18 on:** February 16, 2010, 05:05:14 PM »

Exactly. His stats are great. The best rebounder in the game. Although I think Dwight Howard is gonna set the record for blocks.

EDIT: Prof, that's true he wasn't the biggest. But Shaq isn't top 1 in any stat, is he? And he wasn't known for blocking shots I don't think. He sure as heck isn't blocking Dwight Howard, who's 6'11".

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #19 on:** February 16, 2010, 05:14:34 PM »

I agree with those who are defending the awesomeness of Bill Russell. Russell dominated head-to-head matchups with Wilt Chamberlin (by Wilt's own admission). He won Championships in college, too, without Cousy et al. He has always been a winner, and everyone who played against him agrees with his awesomeness. If any of those ESPN specials about him are available somewhere online, you can listen with your own ears...

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #20 on:** February 16, 2010, 05:16:18 PM »

Player:PPG:RPG:APG:BPG
Russell: 15.1: 22.5: 4.3: *
Wilt: 30.1: 22.9: 4.4: *
Shaq: 24.2: 11.1: 2.6: 2.3
*= Stat was not measured during his career

I am taking Russell and Wilt everytime. Factoring in the fact that they both should have high block totals (probably upwards of 4 per game), I just see no contest. If I am building a team to win, I want Wilt and Russell. Wilt has the scoring prowess and the rebounding while Russell has the rebounding and the defensive skills that I want with still solid point production. Additionally, both know how to destribute the ball better.

I'm sorry, but your controdicting yourself with your argument. Russell was 220, yes, but he played in an age where players didn't have the supplements and weight training we had today. Some didn't even train year round. This completely controdicts your thought process here:

Quote

I actually disagree with the idea that older players couldn't compete today. The only reason why players today are faster, stronger, etc. is because they have access to better dietary and training information. If the older players were playing today, they would be taking advantage of those same things and therefore would still be as dominant.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #21 on:** February 17, 2010, 12:41:05 AM »

Quote from: lightningninja on February 16, 2010, 05:05:14 PM

The best rebounder in the game.

No. Wilt was the best rebounder in the game. He had about 2300 more rebounds ~~blocks~~ than Russell.

Quote from: lightningninja on February 16, 2010, 05:05:14 PM

But Shaq isn't top 1 in any stat, is he? And he wasn't known for blocking shots I don't think.

Shaq is #7 on the all time list for blocked shots. That's pretty good. Not as good as Russell, but not shabby. And I'd prefer my center to score more than rebound, and Shaq scores almost twice as much as Russell.

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 16, 2010, 05:16:18 PM

I'm sorry, but your controdicting yourself with your argument. Russell was 220, yes, but he played in an age where players didn't have the supplements and weight training we had today.

I agree that if Russell played today that he would be a lot bigger and stronger. But 100 extra pounds? I don't think so.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #22 on:** February 17, 2010, 11:33:08 AM »

Not 100 pounds I agree, but the extra 25 to 50 pounds he would gain would make him competitive with all of today's centers while still maintaining more mobility. Shaq has 0 mobility. He forces you into a half court slow it down offense. Russell had at least some mobile potential.

lightningninja · « **Reply #23 on:** February 17, 2010, 12:25:35 PM »

Sorry Prof, I thought I saw that Bill had #1 in rebounds. I stand corrected. And why do you say that Wilt had over 2000 more blocks when they didn't record blocks back then? Did you find the online somewhere?

Alex is right that Shaq is super slow and big. Keep in mind also, that the game was much different that it is today. Centers back then could shoot. Wilt Chamberlain had a shot. So did a lot of forwards and other centers of that day. Shaq can't shoot, which means Bill would beat him in the mid-range game.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #24 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:41:52 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 17, 2010, 11:33:08 AM

Russell had at least some mobile potential.

On my dream team, I have Jason Kidd and Michael Jordan running the court on the fast breaks. I don't need my CENTER to have "mobile potential"

Quote from: lightningninja on February 17, 2010, 12:25:35 PM

And why do you say that Wilt had over 2000 more blocks when they didn't record blocks back then?

Oops, I meant rebounds. Sorry for the confusion.

Quote from: lightningninja on February 17, 2010, 12:25:35 PM

Shaq can't shoot, which means Bill would beat him in the mid-range game.

What matters about shooting is scoring. And Shaq scored almost twice as much as Russell. I don't think Russell wins in this category.

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Author Topic: Current NBA Dream-Team (Read 5969 times)