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because it's supposed to be a children's card game lol

i mean i've played prolly over 2000 games and i still am not understanding a lot of it and have even been practically called a cheater because i just straight up don't even know the rules still. how are people not cheating all the time if they can't even figure out the rules?

i'm really trying to learn but it's like geez man how much more confusing can the game really be? to the point that confusion is one of the most meta bending cards i have seen? haha at least one part is thematic, confusion son of god yeah that works.. isn't that the opposite of the whole point of the game?

i've tried to get people in to the game a lot some people get it really fast so i mean there are parts that are obviously simple enough to pick it up it's not broken but when i'm sitting here trying to ask genuine questions and rules are being bent situationally which is apparently pretty frequent it kinda is a huge turn off to even trying

i think this game needs a professional team of people who are not players or who do not play the game anymore to create the separation necessary for more transparent rules and less bias but who knows it also needs actual marketing because i can't believe how many people have never heard of it when it is the second longest running ccg

It would be interesting to know how many people have quit because of this

I find this interesting because...
   The game about died because it was too simplistic (pre-Warriors).
      (In fact, I discovered years later that I initially passed on the game because of simplicity.)
   Now, the sentiment is that the game is about dead because of complication?

I understand that some aspects are tough, and there are a fair amount of rules but I wouldn't go so far as to say it is the reason people don't play.

How much did he pay you to say that

People stop playing for a variety of reasons. The most common one I see is that their life becomes busier (job/school/etc) and they simply don't have the time for something that is primarily a hobby for them. In my own experience, I've had seasons in life where I wasn't very involved due to my job not allowing me the opportunity to attend tournaments during the summer months.

The other common one I see is people who stop playing because they don't have other close to them to play with in person and/or there aren't tournaments held often enough near them. I need look no further than the Twin Cities playgroup that has dwindled significantly this past season due to not having a consistent location to host (something we are hoping to find in this upcoming season).

Other people pick up other interests and typically when a person says "Yes" to one thing, they have to say "No" to something else. If that new interest is a new hobby, the most likely thing for them to say no to is one of their current hobbies.

I honestly don't recall anyone offhand who has said outright that they stopped playing due to the complexity of the game. I know of people like Isildur who haven't gotten back into due to the complexity involved in "relearning," but I am quite confident that if he had the time and motivation to do so, he could get back into the game and learn the new aspects. In fact, I've seen many more people return to the game because of the greater variety of gameplay and strategies that now exist than I've seen people people leave because of complexity.

I believe (my opinion, not a statement of fact) that the basics of the game are fairly simple and that anyone with a basic understanding of how CCGs work can learn the game pretty easily if you start with starter decks. That being said, there are certainly some high level strategies that can get very convoluted, and knowing offhand how every possible scenario plays out would be extremely difficult. I've been playing as long or longer than anyone here and there's still rulings and scenarios that I need to double check in the REG.

the only reason i bring it up is to encourage people to play the game

i want more people to play, i want people to love the game and have a passion for it like i do that drives me to play it everyday learning more about scripture too

When I got into the game there was definitely a learning curve. It was more intense for me because I planned on hosting and judging tournaments so I had to learn the rules and nuances of the game, so I took the time to read and study the REG, play games, and ask questions on the forum. There were a few times, when asking questions on this forum, I was discouraged at some of the complexities of the game and thought about giving up as a result but I chose not to and to simply just learn it, and once I learned it I would understand the game that much better. I'm glad I didn't give up because once I got over that learning curve "hump" it became so much easier to understand how the game works. 

For me it came down to the desire to play; and that's what it comes down to for everyone: if you have the desire to learn and play then you'll continue playing it (barring any significant life changes that would prohibit one from continuing in the game). Do I think the game has unnecessary complexities or wording that makes things more complicated than they need to be? Yes, I do, and I've expressed those scenarios on the forum quite a few times. My posts regarding that are not meant to be critical of the elder team but to express my and other people's opinion who feel the same so that the team can get constructive feedback and hopefully make positive changes to upcoming sets. But these issues do not stop me from playing the game, and some of the intricacies are what make the game unique, deep, strategic and a lot of fun. It is still a great ministry tool and a ton of fun and fellowship. If you take this game too seriously and become so competitive to the point of being angry or mean to others then you are missing the spirit of the game: just have fun. And that's what I tell newer players--just have fun and don't worry so much about many of the more advanced rules of the game. Those are there for deeper game play and competition, which there is a place for that, but just enjoy it and have fun building and playing decks. Enjoy the fellowship and fun, and take the opportunities that this game presents to further our Father's kingdom on the earth.

I would encourage people not to dismiss the concerns of a wildly loyal Redemption player (JD).

I appreciate his concerns otherwise I wouldn't be actively working with other active Elders to improve the REG, the tournament host guide and the rulebook in addition to laying the groundwork for the next set -- all while being an active player as well.

In regards to recent ruling discussions, there was near unanimous agreement between both Elders and experienced players who weighed in with the ruling that was presented. JD was the only one who disagreed. I am in no way saying that makes his arguments invalid (I have been in that position myself with past discussions), but it reached a point where nothing was being added to the discussion and posts were simply causing further confusion to a complex scenario.

Let's make Redemption great again!

The elder team puts in a lot of work, but a ton of credit goes to the community for the success of the past couple of sets. I believe one of the best decisions we've made is to start previewing cards so that we can get community feedback and critiques before they go to print.

Overall I think Redemption as a game is expanding into a good competitive area. The newest sets are excellent and offer many strategic ways to play. And I want to see this to continue to expand with more strategies and creative ways to win. The problems I've seen with Redemption as a game come down to rules that have a lot of gray area that needs interpretation from elders to confirm how things should be played and the "power creep" over time. Once a player learns redemption i feel they usually stick around and want to play in some capacity but players usually have to make a choice on whether to be casual or competitive. Its a frustrating and long process understanding the Reg and that is offputting for many players who to want to be competitive but the real issue I've seen rule wise is it can just be too complicated for new people. I recently had a buddy of mine call me up the day before a tournament he was wanting to go to, to tell me he didn't really feel like going because he was too confused by some of the abilities. Granted this happens to all players in some capacity as they are starting out but he's already progressed to be able to pilot a throne of David offense easily and not miss triggers. So it's not like he's brand new. New players really suffer because all we can really do is point them to the reg for understanding and try to show them but it's a very long document and hard to cover all the bases when teaching. I guess a good example from personal experience was when I first started out I nearly quit the game due to some at the time frustrating rulings. I tried to build a "lost soul deck" back then for a tournanment and was told right before that it was illegal by another player. The rulebook didn't make it very apparent that the lost soul count was a required amount no more and no less. Luckily I had my back up deck that I built and the defense ran a lot of "end the battle" abilities. At the time I thought "end the battle" skipped battle resolution )as i thought that was part of the battle) and basically returned characters to territories and resulted in an unsuccessful rescue. Looking back that would be overpowered but at the time it was just really frustrating and I mostly though where in the rules does it actually say all of this clearly. Even now looking at the rules they aren't intuitive which leads to frustration. I can easily see a player being frustrated by rulings and interactions that aren't apparent to them to the point of quitting or not wanting to continue learning because the frustration isn't worth it. For those of us that overcome kudos to us were all obviously dedicated to the game and support it, however we also should think about how to minimize the frustration and growing pains of learning the Rules so that people can focus on the positives of Redemption like the great fellowship and cool themes and ideas to explore once the game is pretty understood. It's not an easy fix and I'm not expecting any major changes to the rules to fix many of the issues there. It's just too much work and not necessary for a functional game. But just cause it's functional doesn't mean that it can't be better and so I think something should be done to simplify the rules and codify them in such a way that is relatively easy to understand as right now it isn't. This would likely take effort from a large group of people and would involve painstaking work to go through every entry in the reg and try to clarify it, talking with new players and finding out where their frustrations in learning lie, looking at the various ruling questions and figuring out at least the most commonly misconstrued concepts, and the reworking the rules over and over to be functional and easy to understand for the majority of people who pick up a rulebook and attempt to play a game. Which all said in done I don't think that process is reasonable with the current amount of elders, and players that we have considering all of this would be voluntary work. I applaud the elders who have put in countless hours of work to make the game as functional as they can and respect the approach they take to addressing any discrepancies players have rule wise. I may not always agree but they have put in the work to make a functional game even with some convoluted concepts and that alone shows how much they've put in to this game. To criticise that would be foolish. I'll always express my concerns or dislikes like much of the community does but I do feel that the elders have the best in mind when they take their time with changes or refute the way we often want things to work when the rules do function as is regardless of how crazy that may be.

Sorry. I rant. Paragraphs meld together for me. Even in speaking. I actually cut out a lot just to get it under the character limit. Lol