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For the record, the Big East is 12-4 in bowl games over the last three years, while the Big Ten is 6-16.

So you're going to rate a Rutgers win over UCF in the Beef O Brady Bowl over a Northwestern loss to Auburn in overtime in the Outback Bowl.  But the Big Ten is an arrogant conference.  That's interesting.

The Big Ten was given two opportunities last year to prove they belonged in BCS games, and they came out on top in both cases.  How did the Sugar Bowl go?

So you're going to rate a Rutgers win over UCF in the Beef O Brady Bowl over a Northwestern loss to Auburn in overtime in the Outback Bowl.  But the Big Ten is an arrogant conference.  That's interesting.

The Big Ten was given two opportunities last year to prove they belonged in BCS games, and they came out on top in both cases.  How did the Sugar Bowl go?

LOL. Have I really been arrogant about the Big East? Defending their honor is not nearly the same as the degradation coming from you guys. You still have to look at the bigger picture. Picking on the Beef o' Brady Bowl as your counter example is silly since even you have admitted Big Ten has bad teams too. The argument has been that the Big East does not deserve an automatic bid, even though their bowl record over the past few years has been rather good.

There is a reason that the big conferences have an automatic bid. Teams within their division wreak havoc on even the favorites. If a team is 8-4 overall, but all 4 of their losses come from within their conference, they may be misjudged as a less than stellar team. Knowing how good they would be against a team that they do not play every year is speculation until they actually play. Big East teams play every team in their division every year. Those rivalries will always lead to upsets. There have been plenty of times over the last five years that Big East teams were ranked in the top ten, but lost in the final weeks to division rivals. Those teams still fared quite well in the bowls they were allowed to play in. But, what bowl they end up in is based on an archaic selection process. The Big Ten is still viewed favorably by the media, so they get better bowls. You can't seriously blame the Big East teams for who they get paired up against. That is completely out of their control. If anything, it is a letdown.

In all fairness, I was talking to Daniel, and only used the Big Ten as an example because I did not know exactly where Daniel's loyalties are. He has a Miami Hurricanes logo, but I figured an ACC reference would only be shot down since you view the ACC/Big 12/ Big East in the same light - unworthy.

You already mentioned your disgust for the BCS, but I do not think you realize how skewed against the Big East it really is. If anything, Big Ten fans think it favors the Big East with an automatic bid. But in reality, without the bid, a 10-2 Big East champion could end up playing an also-ran team in a nothing bowl thanks to freebies given to Notre Dame and media scrutiny. However, a 10-2 Big Ten team (even if not a conference champion) is guaranteed a January 1st or later bowl with lucrative payoffs. The Big East has been fighting an uphill battle ever since the exodus of top teams to the ACC. They know their bid is on the line, since that was the threat right after the exodus. However, the condition was that the BCS would be watching the Big East teams' performance in the bowls to decide if they get to keep the bid. So far, the teams have done well in bowls and have kept their bid.

For other conference fans to demand that the bid be taken away anyway is self-serving arrogance. If you really want to prove that the Big Ten is better than the Big East, then schedule games between the conferences. Schedule bowl games between the conferences. Can you do that? No. That decision is based on money and made by a handful of people that we can't remotely persuade. Can Rutgers change the fact that the Beef o'Brady Bowl had the right to select them, and that their opponent would be from C-USA? No. That decision is based on the same factors.

Until a playoff system is instituted, and head-to-head matchups are scheduled, there is no possible way (outside of arrogance) to conclude that Wisconsin would beat West Virginia. The game will not happen, so there is no need to speculate and insult all Big East schools and their fans. That, by the way, is all that you guys have been doing.

The mid-majors don't deserve to be in any top conferences list ever, uppercut!

Additionally, insulting all the other conferences and their fans continues to be arrogant and unChristlike.

The fact that mid-major teams have found success against major conferences seems to indicate that they deserve more opportunities. There are only a handful of top teams that even schedule the heavy hitters in the mid-majors. Part of that reason is fear. Since scholarship totals are down, smaller schools are fielding better teams with NFL talent. That is why FCS Appalachian State can beat FBS Michigan, albeit on a down year. That is why FCS New Hampshire can schedule an FBS school and beat them five years running. You can't say that they only won because the teams they beat were the in the lower half of the conference. That was the only school who would schedule them. They take what they can get. I actually applaud Michigan for being willing to schedule an FCS powerhouse, rather than an FCS lower half school. However, most of the top half FBS teams only schedule the bottom half FCS schools. They know the potential of scheduling the top FCS schools, and the hit they would take in the BCS if they lost. Fortunately for FBS Virginia Tech, they will still make a BCS bowl even though they lost to FCS James Madison University.

Every team deserves their chance, if they prove themselves. Enough mid-majors have proven themselves over the years, and some of those teams are now in major conferences. In the words of the fans in the Astrodome overlooking the Bad News Bears:

"Let them play."

Telling my opinion about college football conferences is unChristlike? I disagree.

Ah yes. It is OK to be rude and arrogant as a Christian, as long as you are talking about sports. That's not what the Bible teaches. Clearly you are part of some cult.

Could you give me some examples of these mid-majors in major conferences?

Louisville and South Florida for starters, but there will be more next year.

Also, I'd say let the FCS schools join a real conference, aka one of the top6, and go 2-10 and then they don't have to worry about it. There is a considerable difference in talent between FBS and FCS.

Then clearly New Hampshire has the best athletes in the country. 

LOL. Have I really been arrogant about the Big East? Defending their honor is not nearly the same as the degradation coming from you guys.

All I have done is state the facts of the matter, so I don't know what is this "degradation" you speak of.

Picking on the Beef o' Brady Bowl as your counter example is silly since even you have admitted Big Ten has bad teams too. The argument has been that the Big East does not deserve an automatic bid, even though their bowl record over the past few years has been rather good.

It's not silly because you counted all wins and losses equal regardless of who the teams are or who they have played.  And by the way, that was never my argument, (only) Alex was arguing for greater mid-major inclusion.

There have been plenty of times over the last five years that Big East teams were ranked in the top ten, but lost in the final weeks to division rivals.

You're not quoting anything that doesn't happen to every other conference in football.  The SEC is particularly brutal.  But there are plenty of uber one-loss Ohio State teams over the years (1996 being the most glaring example) that lost their shot at the title due to that one loss.  The best way not to drop out of the top ten after losing to a division rival, is to beat your division rival.

Those teams still fared quite well in the bowls they were allowed to play in. But, what bowl they end up in is based on an archaic selection process. The Big Ten is still viewed favorably by the media, so they get better bowls.

No, conference teams go to bowls based on contracts that they have with those bowls.  A perfect example of this is the WAC; their two big bowl contracts are the Humanitarian Bowl and the Fight Hunger Bowl.  But while it looks like Hawaii is going to be the champion of that conference, they won't play in either of those games because they are automatically invited to the Hawaii Bowl every year they are bowl eligible.

In all fairness, I was talking to Daniel, and only used the Big Ten as an example because I did not know exactly where Daniel's loyalties are. He has a Miami Hurricanes logo, but I figured an ACC reference would only be shot down since you view the ACC/Big 12/ Big East in the same light - unworthy.

I don't think the ACC is as good as the Big Ten, from top to bottom, but I think "unworthy" is really an appropriate title to apply here.  After all, the ACC improved significantly in recent years when they acquired the three best teams the Big East had at the time - Miami, BC and Va Tech - which by the way is the main reason the Big East isn't as good as it used to be.

You should also note (again) that most of my comments about the declining quality of the Big 12 is that they are losing two schools to other [major] conferences and by all accounts were a hairsbreadth from being decimated to a six-team conference.  If these conferences were losing Baylor and Kansas and Villanova and Providence it wouldn't be that impactful.  But losing Nebraska or Va Tech is not nearly as easy to absorb.  When those teams leave, your conference quality goes down; It's just a fact.  If Ohio State or Wisconsin or Penn State left the Big Ten, guess what, they wouldn't be as good without them.

However, a 10-2 Big Ten team (even if not a conference champion) is guaranteed a January 1st or later bowl with lucrative payoffs.

Again I note the nature of existing contracts in bowl games.  Plus, I thought you said teams shouldn't suffer for losing tough rival games.

For other conference fans to demand that the bid be taken away anyway is self-serving arrogance.

I'm not sure if anyone else in this thread demanded the Big East lose their bid in the BCS but I'm pretty sure you won't find anything remotely like that in my posts.  The only change I have recommended, apart from the abolition of the entire system for a playoff, is that Oklahoma and Notre Dame be banned from any further invites because they're lame and lose all the time.

Until a playoff system is instituted, and head-to-head matchups are scheduled, there is no possible way (outside of arrogance) to conclude that Wisconsin would beat West Virginia.

Well, one way to conclude that might be that Wisconsin has a better record and beat two ranked teams to win their conference, while West Virginia lost their only matchup against a ranked team, and their game against the team likely to grab the Big East bid to the BCS.  Facts are not arrogant but can still lead to a reasonable conclusion strikingly similar to the one you consider unreasonable.

TCU is heading to the Big East for the 2012-2013 season. If I was Boise State and Utah, I'd be heading to the Big 12, or they are going to get left out.

An 8-3 West Virginia is FAR better than an 11-1 Nevada, so we can throw that team out of the discussion. 

Looking at WVU's schedule, they don't really have any impressive victories. They lost their only game against a ranked team (LSU). Meanwhile, Nevada beat Boise St, lost a close one to Hawaii, survived a scare against Fresno St. and crushed everyone else they played. If they pull out that game against Hawaii, they are for sure in the Top 10.

That being said, I'm not necessarily arguing they are better than WVU, but I don't think we should throw them out of the discussion so easily.

Well, I was speaking generally. I cannot deny that this year, the Big East is a mess. But one bad year should not lead to the removal of an automatic bid. That was not the agreement that the conference made with the BCS.

Schaef and Daniel, I apologize for saying that you guys were being rude. I was juggling discussions between here and another message board that was more sports oriented, and I got confused about who said what. You guys were fine.

Guardian, I agree that those teams are more deserving this year. As a UConn fan, I am excited about the possiblity of a BCS bowl. All we have to do is beat South Florida (which I have to keep quiet because the campus is only an hour away from my house). Admittedly, we are no powerhouse team. We'll be 8-4, which will be the worst record in the BCS bowls. However, we do have the #2 RB in the country, Jordan Todman, who is averaging 145 yards a game and has had several 200 yard rushing games in his career. We have our senior QB back as a starter, after being benched at the beginning of the year for a young stud QB who went and got himself suspended. Interestingly, the senior was our starter for the last two years, and has stepped up for the big wins against Pitt and West Virginia that has fueled our winning streak. Unfortunately, we have to play South FL on the road. We are currently 7-4, but we are 6-0 at home. 

Still, if we pull it off, going to a BCS bowl when we have only been in Big East football for five years would be an early Christmas present. 

Notre Dame plays all their other sports in the Big East. The big money football TV contract is (I believe) the only reason they did not also join for football, but I do not know that for sure.

I'm not sure what the answer is for the Big 12.

Fold.

Ridiculous. Absolutely Ridiculous.

The Big 12 does has a championship. The only good teams in the North are Mizzou and Nebraska (who are both inconsistent), while the South continuously provides great games and interesting debate. 2008-2009 comes to mind, with Oklahoma and Texas being tied for first in the South, and although I do agree that BCS rankings are stupid and Texas probably should ahve gone to the title game, I doubt that even they could have beaten Florida (not to mention the bull-crapping refs robbing Gresham of a goal-line TD catch right before the half and a controversial "pass interference" call midway through the 3rd quarter that ended up being the clinching TD for Florida). However, Texas proved themselves not worthy of the BCS title bid the year before which they oh so loudly complained about when they were soundly beaten by Alabama.

My ranking of the divisions in collegiate football are as follows:

SEC/Big 12
All the other conferences who produce one or maybe two top-tier teams.