Author Topic: Balance (in the BCS)  (Read 11761 times)

Offline STAMP

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Re: Balance
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2010, 07:43:35 PM »
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Quote
SEC AND Big 10 AND Big East AND Pac 10 AND Big 12 AND ACC keep telling us that teams like Alabama/Iowa/Pittsburgh/Oregon St./Oklahoma/Florida St. are far superior to teams like Boise St, Utah, TCU, et al.
Fixed again.  They're ALL Robber Barons.

This is another incorrect assessment: none of those teams are ranked above Boise St. or TCU, I don't think any of them are in line for a BCS game this year, and definitely none of them are going to the title game over them.  Utah had one victory against a ranked team, got drilled by TCU and beat soundly by Notre Dame; they've demonstrated they are not one of the two best teams in the country.  This is a pretty bad chip-on-shoulder claim.

It is only an incorrect assessment if I had initially stipulated that my statements were focused solely on the year 2010.  I did not.  I only specified team names as examples for the general atmosphere of the game.  Year in and year out, this subject comes up regardless of the names of the schools involved. 
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The Schaef

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Re: Balance
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2010, 07:55:09 PM »
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i did not.  I only specified team names as examples for the general atmosphere of the game.  Year in and year out, this subject comes up regardless of the names of the schools involved.

If that's the tack you want to take, then I'll point out that pretty much none of those schools have been placed into championship games in recent years, and Alabama as the most glaring example you mentioned went undefeated last year and won convincingly against a solid Texas team.  Another puzzling addition is Oregon State, who has not been invited to ANY BCS bowl since 2001, and they won that game.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Balance
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2010, 08:20:04 PM »
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But the Big 6 conferences keep telling us that teams like Oklahoma are far superior to teams like Boise St, Utah, TCU, et al.

Forget it STAMP. There simply is no match for Big Ten arrogance..... except perhaps SEC arrogance. We should scrap the whole BCS set up and just match the top teams in the BigTen and SEC for all the major bowl games from now on. No one else is worthy. I'm not sure why Oregon is even still up there. A one-loss Big Ten team is better than an undefeated PAC10 team any day of the week.  ;)
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The Schaef

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Re: Balance
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2010, 08:29:52 PM »
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Yeah, that must be it, people are just arrogant about their conferences, and not stating simple facts about the strength of the top three to five teams versus other conferences that have one or maybe two A-list teams, or wondering why teams that are almost never seen in BCS games keep getting used as examples about how the BCS screws other conferences.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Balance
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2010, 10:06:12 PM »
+1
For the record, I was watching the newest Star Trek movie and felt the urge to try to elicit an emotional response in order to usurp control of the boards. Since Schaef used italics to demonstrate emotion, I hereby cite Starfleet Regulation 619: The commanding officer must relieve themselves of command if their current mission leaves them emotionally compromised and unable to make rational decisions.

I am now in control of these boards.
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The Schaef

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Re: Balance
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2010, 11:24:01 PM »
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That's not really going to happen as long as Ohio Stadium has not been sucked up into a black hole by a poorly-conceived plot device.

And as long as I'm not the one drawing equivalencies between 5-3 BCS teams and 2-5 BCS teams, or teams that haven't even gone to one of those bowls in a decade.  :p

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Balance
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2010, 02:42:50 AM »
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Seeing as how a mod is 1/3 this conversation, could he maybe move it to the appropriate area?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Balance
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2010, 03:53:47 AM »
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Boise St. lost...new conversation...
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The Schaef

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Re: Balance
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2010, 09:08:31 AM »
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Boise St. lost...new conversation...

But that's not possible!  Boise State is better than Oregon and Auburn put together!  They were scheduled to play the Seahawks next Sunday for control of the NFC West!

Well, I guess they're just going to have to get in line with Stanford and Oklahoma State and all the other one-loss teams and say there's always next year.

Let's be clear about one other thing before the convo withers and dies: I have always hated the BCS system, from day one.  I'm pretty sure somewhere on these boards I have a broad thesis outlining all the reasons it's crap.  I agreed that copping out by putting Boise St. and TCU in the mix only to have them play each other robbed both schools of a chance to prove they weren't going to be the next Notre Dame.

But this whole thing about the conferences using the BCS to screw the other schools is totally overblown.  The Series responded to Utah's win over Pitt by changing the rules so that a top-ranked non-conference school would get an automatic bid to play in a BCS game.  That's what got Boise and TCU and Utah into these games in the first place.  That's what gave Hawaii the privilege of getting drilled by Georgia.  And Utah has actually demonstrated they belong in the conversation by beating Alabama a couple years ago.  But that doesn't mean that every State Tech A&M team that blows through their Division 1-1/2 conference would be playing in the SEC Championship game most years.  Trust me, cause this is coming from a guy whose team is the class of the Big Ten and a title contender nearly every year, but still needs to prove they can do the job against a superior SEC conference.

Every conference has bad teams, or average teams with bad years.  There can be strong arguments made about whether some conferences deserve their place among the major six (I'm not naming names, Big East and Big 12).  And the day they ask the people what they want, I'll be first in line to say give us a playoff and allow these teams from smaller conferences the opportunity to put their money where their mouth is.  But come on: some of these schools are better than you, a few of them significantly so.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2010, 11:30:44 AM »
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In all fairness, this year TCU was the real Cinderella, not Boise State. Kellen Moore is exceptional and had some of the "magic" of Jared Zabransky - did anyone see that pass at the end of regulation with one second left that set up what should have been the game-winning FG? But this Boise State was not the same as the one that beat OK in the Fiesta Bowl, which had the most returning starters for a college football team in recent history.

TCU, on the other hand, has the #1 ranked defense in the country, and a top ten offense. I think they have a chance to beat a top-tier team more than any other smaller division school. They still have to beat New Mexico, and we all know that division rivals are the most likely foilers. Boise State learned that last night (or actually this morning?). Utah and Boise State were riding high on their previous bowl success to vault them into the top 10. TCU had to work their way up by being that good.

BTW, imagine a team with East Carolina's offense and TCU's defense. That would be a fun team to watch.  ;)
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Offline Daniel TS RED

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2010, 11:45:01 AM »
-1
I'm rooting against TCU. If a mid-major was gonna get in, I was hope'n for Boise State. I'm not 100% sure, but it seems more of a cult than a Christian school that TCU goes to(judge'n by wikipedia, which is pretty much always 100% on). If I could pick, I'd like the Ducks to win it, or an 1 loss team.
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Offline STAMP

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Re: Balance
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2010, 12:28:18 PM »
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i did not.  I only specified team names as examples for the general atmosphere of the game.  Year in and year out, this subject comes up regardless of the names of the schools involved.

If that's the tack you want to take, then I'll point out that pretty much none of those schools have been placed into championship games in recent years, and Alabama as the most glaring example you mentioned went undefeated last year and won convincingly against a solid Texas team.  Another puzzling addition is Oregon State, who has not been invited to ANY BCS bowl since 2001, and they won that game.

Allow me to put it in a much simpler argument: my university is making a whole lot more money than yours so I'll say whatever I want to make sure I keep getting more money.

But the Big 6 conferences keep telling us that teams like Oklahoma are far superior to teams like Boise St, Utah, TCU, et al.

Forget it STAMP. There simply is no match for Big Ten arrogance..... except perhaps SEC arrogance. We should scrap the whole BCS set up and just match the top teams in the BigTen and SEC for all the major bowl games from now on. No one else is worthy. I'm not sure why Oregon is even still up there. A one-loss Big Ten team is better than an undefeated PAC10 team any day of the week.  ;)

Ironically, I AM Big 10 arrogance.  ;)

Boise St. lost...new conversation...

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Offline Daniel TS RED

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2010, 03:44:30 PM »
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I don't think they're a real Christian school.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2010, 07:24:42 PM »
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Just because they are not your Christian does not make them not Christian.

Offline Daniel TS RED

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2010, 07:33:21 PM »
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Just because they are not your Christian does not make them not Christian.

My Christian? Not sure what you're saying.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2010, 08:05:29 PM »
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He was expressing his opinion.  No need to go on the warpath.
Also: a school is a lot more than the sum of it's parts.
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Offline Daniel TS RED

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2010, 08:08:13 PM »
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He was expressing his opinion.  No need to go on the warpath.
Also: a school is a lot more than the sum of it's parts.

I'm not going on the warpath. I just don't know what he's saying.

And i'm not saying Christian schools are better than secular, but i'm not a fan of cults. I'd rather the school be secular.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2010, 08:10:55 PM »
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The warpath thing was directed toward Alex.
What do you mean about cultish colleges?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2010, 08:15:27 PM »
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Can you cite the article you're referring to Daniel? I didn't see it when I looked up TCU.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2010, 08:16:53 PM »
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LOL. This thread started about the Redemption card Balance. I then derailed it into Balance in the BCS. Now Daniel is trying to derail it again into Balance of Religion in Colleges.
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Offline Daniel TS RED

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2010, 08:51:58 PM »
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Here's the new thread:
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=24570.0

To get back on topic here, I don't believe 12-0 mid majors should ever get a shot at a national title without a playoff. If Butler hits that last second 3 and beats Duke last year in march madness, they deserve it. For Boise or TCU to beat 12 chumps and get in is a joke. Boise getting beat by Nevada proves those teams are still not equal to the top teams. Can they get lucky and win 1 game vs a #1 team, yes...Do they deserve that chance to be lucky...no.
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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2010, 09:57:46 PM »
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Not to the top teams, but they're all kind of equal to each other on the second tier.  Nevada's one loss was to Hawaii, and Hawaii had three losses but to Boise State and two PAC 10 teams.  So it's not like Boise lost to one of the chumps; Nevada is top 20 and probably climbing after this.  Nevada is lucky that Hawaii automatically plays in the Hawaii Bowl, or else they might not have even got a how-do-you-do from bowl committees even after a win like that.

The shame of it for the WAC is that their three best representatives - Boise, Nevada and Hawaii - are all bolting for Mountain West in a year or two.  So the WAC will be trading down and drifting further out of relevance.  But if you add those teams to Utah and TCU, suddenly, you have a pretty strong mid-major in the west, probably even something comparable to the Big East.

Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2010, 10:23:01 PM »
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Honestly, once conference transition happens, the MW should be an AQ assuming all stays as is talent wise. The Big East and Big 12 can forfeit their bids.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2010, 11:22:00 PM »
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Blah Blah Blah. Typical haters.

For the record, the Big East is 12-4 in bowl games over the last three years, while the Big Ten is 6-16. The Big Ten doesn't schedule Big East teams, so there is no way of knowing how they would fare head-to-head. You can assume all you want, but until there is a playoff system, you simply cannot say that the Big Ten team would win just because they are a Big Ten team. However, that is the arrogance that I have seen throughout this thread that makes me ill.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Balance (in the BCS)
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2010, 12:04:11 AM »
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While that is very well true, the Big Ten typically produces better teams. You can't tell me any of the recent Pitt teams would win the majority of games against most recent Penn State teams, for example (though this year it would be a tossup).

 


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