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In spite of my extremely high respect for the accuracy and authority of the Bible, I do agree with my brothers that without the leading of the Holy Spirit a person wouldn't actually be able to understand God's Word.  Thankfully, I believe that God gives "prevenient grace" to all people.

And as for the idea that our relationship is with God and not a book...I agree and disagree.

My relationship is with God.  He is my Savior and my Lord.  He is the most important Person in my life.  However, my relationship with Him is affected by many things, including my feelings, my senses, my thinking, etc.  All of these things are fallible, and will sometimes lead me in the wrong direction.  So what can I depend on to always tell me the Truth?  The Bible is the best way to determine whether our relationship with God is where it is supposed to be.  So when I think I hear God telling me to do something, the Bible is where I check to see whether what I "think" He is telling me matches up with what I "know" He has already told me.  God won't contradict Himself.

I obviously don't hold the Bible at the same standard as you guys do, but all the more power to you.

I obviously don't hold the Bible at the same standard as you guys do, but all the more power to you.

Why not? Do you still believe the bible? Or just don't think God penned it?

On the history, at least the examples you gave, its the whole "if two people see the same thing and get asked about it, they'll tell different stories." Ever think it was possible that Matthew or Luke couldn't exactly remember? Good example about this: My mom on her birthday last year, thought she was a year older than she was. She even told me the wrong birth year when I asked her when she was born!

Now, before someone jumps down my throat for saying that, here's the thing. If you look at history, how often do they know actual dates (prior to the 19th century... in the 1800's and after, we usually have pretty accurate dates)? Often times, you get a range, because people forget exactly what year it was. And here's the other thing: The BC/AD system wasn't used until almost 500 years after Christ's DEATH. Before that, the Diocletian calendar was used.

But I have ANOTHER point in all of this. What the crap does two years matter? Does that difference of two years totally throw everything out the window? Does it make the fact that Jesus lived, not a fact at all? No.

Here's the problem with people and the accuracy of the Bible. Yes, the Bible is God-breathed. God inspired the men who wrote the Bible to write it. His Spirit was in the writing of it. But we're too darn nit picky.  I agree with Travis and Mark... the Bible is the Word of God, it IS infallible. The fact that, hey, maybe Luke was old and had lived a long time and couldn't remember the exact year, made it that much more REAL. If everyone in the Bible wrote the same, wouldn't it pop questions in your mind? Like, was it really different people or one person PRETENDING to be all these people? If the Gospels were parallel, would we have as much of the story we do.

There's a problem here, and I'm going to throw it out there. Where is your wonder and awe? It's great to ask questions, I'm all about asking questions. But when those questions lead to your faith deteriorating, and that your faith is based on logic, thats not faith, that's intellect. There's things that we don't know. And you know what? I'm okay with that. Most of the discussions that I have been reading lately have been starting to break my heart? Why?

Because its becoming more obvious that people don't give a crap about the wonder and awesomeness of God and that all they really want is to add to their knowledge bank and argue and know God in their head. Here's what I have to say... I asked a lot a questions before I knew the Lord... and trust me, I knew a lot about Jesus and God and the Bible, I still do. But guess what? My life was miserable. I was miserable, because I didn't know the power of the living God. Why? Because I thought I had to know everything to have faith. Then, one day I realized that I couldn't understand God's Word, even though I knew all about it, without Him. And I couldn't really know GOD without accepting Him into my life. And I think that maybe, some of you need to take the advice of Jesus Himself, and become like a little child, and get that faith again. Because you know what, without that, there is no way to really know God and His Word.

*steps off soapbox*

~Marti

I believe that the Word of God is divinly inspired (God-Breathed) and I beleive it is to be "useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).

I like those verses.  I also like this one: "Every word of God proves true."

good, so we should all learn greek and Hebrew!

actually no I am not.  I actually think that chruches should teach their congregants greek and hebrew just like jews learn hebrew at their synagogues.

Quote from: Clarinetguy097 on March 20, 2009, 11:24:35 AM

This is why the Jews all learn Hebrew. To read the Torah in it's original, acurate wording.

Are you speaking of now or in Biblical times (because in Biblical times they would have learned Greek because of the septuigint). If you remember the part in the New Testament when Jesus reads reads the scroll in the synagogue he reads it in Greek (Πνεῦμα κυρίου ἐπ᾽ ἐμέ οὗ ἕνεκεν ἔχρισέν με εὐαγγελίζεσθαι πτωχοῖς ἀπέσταλκέν με ἰὰσασθαι τοὺς συντετριμμένους τὴν καρδίαν, κηρύξαι αἰχμαλώτοις ἄφεσιν καὶ τυφλοῖς ἀνάβλεψιν ἀποστεῖλαι τεθραυσμένους ἐν ἀφέσει Luke 4:18), as opposed to the Aramiac that Jesus' words are usually spoke in.

Where did you get that?

Quote from: Colin Michael on March 20, 2009, 12:45:50 PM

Quote from: Clarinetguy097 on March 20, 2009, 11:24:35 AM

This is why the Jews all learn Hebrew. To read the Torah in it's original, acurate wording.

Are you speaking of now or in Biblical times (because in Biblical times they would have learned Greek because of the septuigint). If you remember the part in the New Testament when Jesus reads reads the scroll in the synagogue he reads it in Greek (Πνεῦμα κυρίου ἐπ᾽ ἐμέ οὗ ἕνεκεν ἔχρισέν με εὐαγγελίζεσθαι πτωχοῖς ἀπέσταλκέν με ἰὰσασθαι τοὺς συντετριμμένους τὴν καρδίαν, κηρύξαι αἰχμαλώτοις ἄφεσιν καὶ τυφλοῖς ἀνάβλεψιν ἀποστεῖλαι τεθραυσμένους ἐν ἀφέσει Luke 4:18), as opposed to the Aramiac that Jesus' words are usually spoke in.

I will have to admit that I am a little weak on jewish society during this time but why would they choose to use the septuagint and not the hebrew scriptures at that time?

Hebrew was replaced by Aramaic during the Babylonian occupation. In the Maccabeean period, Greek became a predominant second language (even the Romans spoke Greek during N.T. times, Latin emerged later). The Septuigint was the first "canon", put together by the Sadducees (I'm assuming they left out Maccabees and such because they were Phariseetical texts, and as you know the Pharisees and Sadducees had a long theological rivalry). During Jesus' time, the Sadducees were the political leaders and the Pharisees were the religious leaders (and I have to say, I'm quite a big fan of the pharisees, even though Jesus rightly criticised them).

During Jesus' time, the Sadducees were the political leaders and the Pharisees were the religious leaders (and I have to say, I'm quite a big fan of the pharisees, even though Jesus rightly criticised them).

I had a professor that believed that Jesus was a member of the Pharisees!