Author Topic: Apocrypha as a Redemption expansion. (Read 12627 times)

Shofarblower · « **Reply #50 on:** July 21, 2010, 06:14:17 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on July 20, 2010, 06:55:12 PM

The feet is Rome. Antiochus was part of the Bronze loins (Greece).

Thanks for the correction Pol.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #51 on:** July 21, 2010, 06:34:00 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 21, 2010, 05:06:17 PM

That's fine for you Deist, but the large majority of people here would state that one of the defining reasons they play Redemption is because it provides Spiritual context and tends to increase their knowledge of the Bible. It's been stated numerous times by numerous people to be the case. That's why they don't give it up until absolutely necessary. It's not just a hobby, it's spiritual training to them.

in addition to that, Redemption only releases one expansion per year, which allows for people to play and not spend tons of money to be competitive.

and Deist, come to a national tournament or an MN tournament. the fellowship there is the best I've ever seen. and competition? heh. get on RTS and sign up for ROOT. you'll experience a small part of good competition.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #52 on:** July 21, 2010, 08:30:39 PM »

Just out of curiosity, does your name reflect your position on religion?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #53 on:** July 21, 2010, 09:59:33 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on July 21, 2010, 08:30:39 PM

Just out of curiosity, does your name reflect your position on religion?

yes, it does. I'm obsessed with Sauron. I think he'll rule the world someday, so I serve him until the day some hobbit will stab me in the back causing the lamest person alive to have the chance to kill me.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #54 on:** July 21, 2010, 10:35:17 PM »

Good, so I'm not the only one.

Deist · « **Reply #55 on:** July 21, 2010, 10:45:36 PM »

Quote from: drb1200 on July 21, 2010, 04:46:50 PM

Quote from: Deist on July 21, 2010, 04:37:25 PM
...there is much less competition....
Obviously, you've never attended a tournament.

Dude when a local Friday night magic has more people than a Redemption tournament regionals I think there is less competition in Redemption. I was not saying that nobody good plays. Just a lack players.

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 21, 2010, 05:06:17 PM

That's fine for you Deist, but the large majority of people here would state that one of the defining reasons they play Redemption is because it provides Spiritual context and tends to increase their knowledge of the Bible. It's been stated numerous times by numerous people to be the case. That's why they don't give it up until absolutely necessary. It's not just a hobby, it's spiritual training to them.

Dude, several people give up redemption before it is necessary. I gave it up for 3+ years. Others give it up because of lack of time or they get tired of it...just like anything else. While playing redemption can increase their knowledge of the bible...I hardly think that is the reason that they don't give it up until it is absolutely necessary.

@Ringwraith- I would love to make it to a national tournament. This year won't work out due to work conflicts. In the past I have been to SE Regionals and now I am planning to host Tournaments here in Florida. Once again I was not saying there was no competition in Redemption more that their is not as much.

Quote from: SomeKittens on July 21, 2010, 08:30:39 PM

Just out of curiosity, does your name reflect your position on religion?

You are the first person to ask. My old forum name was Gabriel Arch. Yes my name reflects my current position on religion though not completely.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #56 on:** July 22, 2010, 12:03:57 AM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on July 21, 2010, 08:30:39 PM

Just out of curiosity, does your name reflect your position on religion?

Does yours?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #57 on:** July 22, 2010, 12:05:35 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on July 22, 2010, 12:03:57 AM

Quote from: SomeKittens on July 21, 2010, 08:30:39 PM
Just out of curiosity, does your name reflect your position on religion?
Does yours?

Quote from: SomeKittens on July 21, 2010, 10:35:17 PM

Good, so I'm not the only one.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #58 on:** July 22, 2010, 02:01:37 AM »

Quote from: Deist on July 21, 2010, 10:45:36 PM

Quote from: drb1200 on July 21, 2010, 04:46:50 PM
Quote from: Deist on July 21, 2010, 04:37:25 PM
...there is much less competition....
Obviously, you've never attended a tournament.
Dude when a local Friday night magic has more people than a Redemption tournament regionals I think there is less competition in Redemption. I was not saying that nobody good plays. Just a lack players.

I think he was understanding you're meaning as, "there aren't many people good at Redemption," rather than "not many people play redemption so there are fewer people to play against." At least, that's how I read it at first.

Quote from: Deist on July 21, 2010, 10:45:36 PM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 21, 2010, 05:06:17 PM
That's fine for you Deist, but the large majority of people here would state that one of the defining reasons they play Redemption is because it provides Spiritual context and tends to increase their knowledge of the Bible. It's been stated numerous times by numerous people to be the case. That's why they don't give it up until absolutely necessary. It's not just a hobby, it's spiritual training to them.

Dude, several people give up redemption before it is necessary. I gave it up for 3+ years. Others give it up because of lack of time or they get tired of it...just like anything else. While playing redemption can increase their knowledge of the bible...I hardly think that is the reason that they don't give it up until it is absolutely necessary.

He's not saying that the only reason people play Redemption is that it's some sort of holy game that they must have. Only that for many--though not all--players, Redemption is much more than a hobby, or even an excessively fun hobby. I know a TON more about the Bible because of Redemption, and I've met quite a few fun people, some of which I have a stronger-than-average relationship with though I've only met them once or twice (or never, in the case of Professor Underwood).

Quote from: Deist on July 21, 2010, 10:45:36 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on July 21, 2010, 08:30:39 PM
Just out of curiosity, does your name reflect your position on religion?
You are the first person to ask. My old forum name was Gabriel Arch. Yes my name reflects my current position on religion though not completely.

[/quote]
How can you be kind of a deist. Isn't that like being kind of a giraffe? Please explain.

Quote from: Shofarblower on July 21, 2010, 06:14:17 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on July 20, 2010, 06:55:12 PM
The feet is Rome. Antiochus was part of the Bronze loins (Greece).

Thanks for the correction Pol.

Any time. I know you'll take it as help from Æcademic to Æcademic, rather than me being a smarty pants. And if you ever catch me saying that the Bible doesn't support Dragons and Unicorns being real, I expect you to come out swinging

Deist · « **Reply #59 on:** July 22, 2010, 09:37:10 AM »

@Pol
Don't want to quote that whole thing so addressing them in order

-Thats why I clarified myself.
-My point was that kind of stuff happens with other games too not just redemption (minus the learning of Biblical knowledge)
-I don't believe in religion. I believe in God. My views on him align with the Christian interpretation more so than a Creator who just watches without interference.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #60 on:** July 22, 2010, 09:38:26 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on July 22, 2010, 02:01:37 AM

I've only met them once or twice (or never, in the case of Professor Underwood).

Actually I think we did meet briefly at Nats in Columbus, OH. As I recall you didn't come to the whole thing, and were just hanging out one evening while people were playing fun games like Bang, Roborally, and Star Wars:Epic Duels (which I was in). It was really just in passing, and I'm not surprised that you don't remember me

Quote from: Minister Polarius on July 22, 2010, 02:01:37 AM

And if you ever catch me saying that the Bible doesn't support Dragons and Unicorns being real, I expect you to come out swinging

OK, dragons I get (from Job 41), but where's the unicorns?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #61 on:** July 22, 2010, 12:17:27 PM »

In Narnia

drb1200 · « **Reply #62 on:** July 22, 2010, 12:53:11 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 22, 2010, 09:38:26 AM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on July 22, 2010, 02:01:37 AM
I've only met them once or twice (or never, in the case of Professor Underwood).
Actually I think we did meet briefly at Nats in Columbus, OH. As I recall you didn't come to the whole thing, and were just hanging out one evening while people were playing fun games like Bang, Roborally, and Star Wars:Epic Duels (which I was in). It was really just in passing, and I'm not surprised that you don't remember me

Quote from: Minister Polarius on July 22, 2010, 02:01:37 AM
And if you ever catch me saying that the Bible doesn't support Dragons and Unicorns being real, I expect you to come out swinging
OK, dragons I get (from Job 41), but where's the unicorns?

Unicorns are mentioned in Numbers 23:22, Numbers 24:8, Deut 33:17, Job 39:9-10, Psalm 22:21, Psalm 29:6, Psalm 92:10 and Isaiah 34:7.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #63 on:** July 22, 2010, 01:11:21 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 22, 2010, 09:38:26 AM

Actually I think we did meet briefly at Nats in Columbus, OH. As I recall you didn't come to the whole thing, and were just hanging out one evening while people were playing fun games like Bang, Roborally, and Star Wars:Epic Duels (which I was in). It was really just in passing, and I'm not surprised that you don't remember me

Yeah, Sven is definitely easier to remember seeing than most others. ~6 feet of person topped with ~5 feet of hair is fairly noticeable.

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #64 on:** July 22, 2010, 01:42:23 PM »

Back on topic:

My vote on the Apocrypha is "Iffy." As in "if" Rob, the Elders, and others wish to remove Redemption from being a Bible-based card game. To have an entire expansion devoted to books/stories outside of the Bible would taint the "Bible-based" foundation of Redemption.

I have no doubt that many of the people mentioned in theses other books/manuscripts/etc did in fact exist, but I'm more critical on the historical accuracy of said "other material." The emperors of Rome and the leaders of other countries definitely existed; and the things they supposedly "did" have been shown to have occurred as well (Historically speaking). (There definitely needs to be a Caesar Augustus card if there isn't one already).

The books that "made it" into the Bible speak of people who had very close relationships with God and show how God loves His chosen people (The Israelites), and how He loves those He sent His Son to die on the cross for (Traditionally, "Christians"). These other "non-Canonical" books don't sound like that was their main purpose for being written. I don't often hear of the things that God did through them to further His Purpose, and this makes me skeptical of their need to be "related" to the Bible itself. However, utilizing the characters into the game of Redemption could add to the mechanics of the game, but I'd be very hesitant about calling Redemption a "Bible-based" collectible card game if that did/does occur.

-C_S

Professoralstad · « **Reply #65 on:** July 22, 2010, 02:39:06 PM »

A brief history lesson for those who may be newer to the boards:

A couple of years ago, when St. Patrick was introduced, a lot of people were concerned about the extra-biblical-ness of good old St. Patty. They thought that this could lead to everyone from Augustine to Pat Robertson (naw, just kidding about that last one) becoming Redemption cards. Rob assured everyone that St. Patty was not going to bring about a landslide of extra-biblical characters, it was more of a special promo release which was introduced at tournaments on March 17. There was mention that certainly no characters would be made from the era of The Great Schism of 1054 or beyond, because the various saints from after that time are not recognized as such by all branches of Christianity, and Cactus didn't want to engender divisiveness. I am certain that the Apocrypha would be avoided for this same reason.

Also, for what it's worth, Rob has professed to be a Roman Catholic, though I don't know his stance on the Apocryphal books. But I know he has committed to making Redemption continue to be a Bible-based game, and the only extra-biblical characters either had direct or prophetic impacts on people of the Bible, or were St. Patrick. All of the Josephus emperors lived and ruled previous to 70 AD, and even a couple that haven't been made (Vespasian and Titus) could potentially be made as they fulfilled the prophecy of the Temple's destruction in that year. Tradition states that Nero killed Paul, and Antiochus was the one who brought about the Abomination of Desolation prophesied in Daniel.

Now, I don't think it would be a stretch to have characters like Judas Maccabees, but having references from the Apocryphal books might be a tad too controversial for some. I think sticking with Josephus when extra-biblical references are warranted is fine, and is probably all the farther outside the canon that Cactus should go. And I am fairly certain that will be the case now and in the near future.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #66 on:** July 22, 2010, 03:18:11 PM »

Quote from: drb1200 on July 22, 2010, 12:53:11 PM

Unicorns are mentioned in Numbers 23:22, Numbers 24:8, Deut 33:17, Job 39:9-10, Psalm 22:21, Psalm 29:6, Psalm 92:10 and Isaiah 34:7.

I'd never really looked into that before, but I'm not convinced those are the type of unicorns that go to candy mountain with Charlie. Some seem to think they may be things as strange as Narwhals or an extinct animal called a Elasmotherium. A more reasonable guess would be a rhinoceros. But I think the most likely thing would be a wild ox who's horns join together to form 1 large horn instead of 2. In other words...

instead of...

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #67 on:** July 22, 2010, 03:22:03 PM »

You and I are no longer friends. I'm going to have 'Lets go to candy mountain CHARILE' in my head all day now.

On a related note I totally want the first pic as a pet - It looks like it has a helmet - I'd enter it into gladiator style competitions.

Deist · « **Reply #68 on:** July 22, 2010, 03:26:04 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on July 22, 2010, 02:39:06 PM

A brief history lesson for those who may be newer to the boards:

A couple of years ago, when St. Patrick was introduced, a lot of people were concerned about the extra-biblical-ness of good old St. Patty. They thought that this could lead to everyone from Augustine to Pat Robertson (naw, just kidding about that last one) becoming Redemption cards. Rob assured everyone that St. Patty was not going to bring about a landslide of extra-biblical characters, it was more of a special promo release which was introduced at tournaments on March 17. There was mention that certainly no characters would be made from the era of The Great Schism of 1054 or beyond, because the various saints from after that time are not recognized as such by all branches of Christianity, and Cactus didn't want to engender divisiveness. I am certain that the Apocrypha would be avoided for this same reason.

Also, for what it's worth, Rob has professed to be a Roman Catholic, though I don't know his stance on the Apocryphal books. But I know he has committed to making Redemption continue to be a Bible-based game, and the only extra-biblical characters either had direct or prophetic impacts on people of the Bible, or were St. Patrick. All of the Josephus emperors lived and ruled previous to 70 AD, and even a couple that haven't been made (Vespasian and Titus) could potentially be made as they fulfilled the prophecy of the Temple's destruction in that year. Tradition states that Nero killed Paul, and Antiochus was the one who brought about the Abomination of Desolation prophesied in Daniel.

Now, I don't think it would be a stretch to have characters like Judas Maccabees, but having references from the Apocryphal books might be a tad too controversial for some. I think sticking with Josephus when extra-biblical references are warranted is fine, and is probably all the farther outside the canon that Cactus should go. And I am fairly certain that will be the case now and in the near future.

That is a well formed argument.

My counterargument would be that many books, Gnostic and those pertaining to the Apocrypha, existed prior to the Great Schism as well. Many Gnostic works were around in the time of Paul and early 2nd century.

Now I would never go as far as to say add Gnostic works to Redemption, (Theologically many of the Gnostic works are very opposed to current church traditions), but like the Apocrypha they both have significant historical relevance to the early church. The apocrypha does not contain incredibly radical and contradictory material to Christianity (why would it be in Catholic Bibles?). I just think it would add some additional books that are relevant to many Christians and would add to this growing game.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #69 on:** July 22, 2010, 03:31:52 PM »

How do you think it would add to Redemption?

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #70 on:** July 22, 2010, 03:37:21 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on July 22, 2010, 03:22:03 PM

You and I are no longer friends. I'm going to have 'Lets go to candy mountain CHARILE' in my head all day now.

On a related note I totally want the first pic as a pet - It looks like it has a helmet - I'd enter it into gladiator style competitions.

Is this the start of the pokemon thread all over again

...just kidding...

On topic, there are several on this board and elsewhere that have very conservative beliefs, and the Apocrypha just does not jive with it. Just like some people have conservative beliefs on what is demonic, sorcery, and the like. As such, rather than to stir up strife, we stick with common ground...and that's why the Canon is used...

xCaLeBx · « **Reply #71 on:** July 22, 2010, 03:43:19 PM »

A at post above:I for one do not have conservative beliefs.

B at Deist:Finally someone (excluding colin *sniff* RIP and Pol (or Sven the viking)) is on the boards who isn't overly and extremely conservative!

C at Ring Wraith: My spiderman kills you're hulk daggon it.

D at Deist: we should talk about beliefs sometime I'd like to. also you should come july 30/31 to SE regionals I would like to meet you.

Deist · « **Reply #72 on:** July 22, 2010, 03:53:37 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on July 22, 2010, 03:31:52 PM

How do you think it would add to Redemption?

Solely on terms of material and knowledge. It might even give protestants more insight into catholic beliefs and traditions. If I recall correctly I believe our full tradition of the fall of Satan and his angels comes from the book of Adam and Eve.

Quote from: TechnoEthicist on July 22, 2010, 03:37:21 PM

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on July 22, 2010, 03:22:03 PM
You and I are no longer friends. I'm going to have 'Lets go to candy mountain CHARILE' in my head all day now.

On a related note I totally want the first pic as a pet - It looks like it has a helmet - I'd enter it into gladiator style competitions.

Is this the start of the pokemon thread all over again ...just kidding...

On topic, there are several on this board and elsewhere that have very conservative beliefs, and the Apocrypha just does not jive with it. Just like some people have conservative beliefs on what is demonic, sorcery, and the like. As such, rather than to stir up strife, we stick with common ground...and that's why the Canon is used...

We know why Canon is used. I understand the controversy surrounding the use of the Apocrypha. But we have already used non-Canonical sources. I am just saying, within a certain degree, use more.

@ xCaLeBx- Alas I will not be able to make it to SE Regionals nor Nationals due to work conflicts. I do plan on starting to host tournaments in Florida starting late August. You can hit me up any time with a pm or email. You can even start a new topic about what you would like to discuss and I would participate.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #73 on:** July 22, 2010, 04:02:55 PM »

Quote from: xCaLeBx on July 22, 2010, 03:43:19 PM

C at Ring Wraith: My spiderman kills you're hulk daggon it.

wait, how'd a sidebattle happen? I have Pot of Manna activated. that's a staple (for the few that have it) nowadays. I'm so lucky to have come across one, I only payed $47 for it! I feel kinda bad for the old guy I ripped off, but he was my age when it came out!

xCaLeBx · « **Reply #74 on:** July 22, 2010, 04:08:51 PM »

lying unto god my friend.....lying unto god.

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Author Topic: Apocrypha as a Redemption expansion. (Read 12627 times)

Warrior_Monk

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drb1200

Warrior_Monk