Author Topic: Apocrypha as a Redemption expansion. (Read 12499 times)

Deist · « **on:** July 19, 2010, 03:49:00 PM »

First let me say that I love that Cactus has been going back into the old sets and reprinting characters to make them relevant again. I think it has been their best move so far. I am curious to what people think about adding Characters from the Apocrypha, either for or against. If we can add Saints I don't see why we can't add cards from the Apocrypha. I come from a protestant background and I for one think it would be fascinating.

We pull many of the Emperor Characters and Saint Patrick from non Canonical sources. Why not?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2010, 03:53:07 PM »

I'd be against. I wasn't too happy with Josephus either...

and the only saint that was added was Patrick, another move I wasn't too happy with (but the reference is biblical and it fits, so I'm okay with it).

Master KChief · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2010, 04:02:06 PM »

i agree with wraith.

Deist · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2010, 04:22:56 PM »

But why? I am wondering your reasoning.

Shofarblower · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2010, 04:59:38 PM »

I would be ok with some but not others. The reason for most people not wanting this type of thing is probably multi faceted. For instance Tobit is an apocryphal book. In this book, an angel gives a man a recipe that will repel a demon from his future wife. While this isn't impossible from God's standpoint, I think many would look at stories like this and feel that they lean more toward witchcraft and the like. Many of the apocryphal books contain stories that aren't powerful, from a spiritual view.

There are good ones though, The Maccabees is a great set of books. We already have Antiochus from that story (even if it is a Josephus reference). Bel and the Dragon is a neat addition to the Daniel stories. The book of Jasher has some great stuff in it.

I think the biggest problem is that they are not undisputable stories. History backs up most of what is in Cannonized Scripture. While I may not understand why some books didn't make it, I will not argue with the scholars who prayed diligently for guidance in putting together the cannon.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2010, 05:08:02 PM »

I'd be all for it in 20 years when we've been releasing 3 sets a year and we're out of material from the Bible.

Seriously, I wouldn't care. If Redemption started pulling cards from a children's cart...ok, bad example. If Redemption started pulling card references from Shark Boy and Lava Girl, I wouldn't care as long as the game was still getting better each expansion. But a lot of people don't see that way, so no reason to rock the boat when we've got years and years and years of material in the Bible.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2010, 05:36:46 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on July 19, 2010, 05:08:02 PM

I'd be all for it in 20 years when we've been releasing 3 sets a year and we're out of material from the Bible.

Seriously, I wouldn't care. If Redemption started pulling cards from a children's cart...ok, bad example. If Redemption started pulling card references from Shark Boy and Lava Girl, I wouldn't care as long as the game was still getting better each expansion. But a lot of people don't see that way, so no reason to rock the boat when we've got years and years and years of material in the Bible.

wyn. I'd love to see how that goes down..
"I make a rescue attempt with Shark Boy!"
"I block with Elmer Fudd!"
"I play 'Batman defeats the Joker' and discard you!"
"I play 'Bowser's Revenge' to interrupt and set you aside."
"But wait! my Earth Bender lost soul negates set aside cards!"

Deist · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2010, 10:08:30 PM »

I am sure it is possible to squeeze more out of the Bible than they already have, I would just like the possibility of some unforeseen characters... Raphael and Tobit.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2010, 10:20:54 PM »

Quote from: Deist on July 19, 2010, 10:08:30 PM

I am sure it is possible to squeeze more out of the Bible than they already have, I would just like the possibility of some unforeseen characters... Raphael and Tobit.

The Ninja Turtle, or Renaissance artist? Either one would be a great expansion.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2010, 10:28:15 PM »

aren't they going to make a Saint Valentine soon?

~Jayden

Isildur · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2010, 10:30:09 PM »

Quote from: KoalaKingofFortressAlstad on July 19, 2010, 10:28:15 PM

aren't they going to make a Saint Valentine soon?

~Jayden

As far as I know no.

Deist · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2010, 10:31:56 PM »

Raphael the angel... He is in The Book of Tobit.

JSB23 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2010, 01:20:57 AM »

that would be epic

LadyNobody · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2010, 12:21:07 PM »

Quote from: KoalaKingofFortressAlstad on July 19, 2010, 10:28:15 PM

aren't they going to make a Saint Valentine soon?

~Jayden

Hey, that would go perfectly with my Marriage card.

I don't think I would be totally against using cards from the Apocrypha because it's an interesting idea, but I feel like it would just be a slippery slope for Cactus to start on. It would also be difficult to try and explain to a little kid why the reference on the card isn't in their Bible.

~Britta

uthminister [BR] · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2010, 02:05:06 PM »

I agree that it would be a slippery slope. If you actually go through the Bible and see what they have used so far, there is so much more to be used and referenced. There is even still a book of the Bible that has not been touched yet not to mention large parts of many other books. I think that the exceptions that Cactus has made have been neutral to the game at best, and will likely not be made in the future...but then again I am not Rob Anderson so I can't say that for sure...

Master KChief · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2010, 02:11:00 PM »

what book hasnt been used yet?

uthminister [BR] · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2010, 02:12:29 PM »

One of the Johns (1, 2, or 3)...I think 2 John.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2010, 03:03:02 PM »

I feel like Redemption has already been "soiled" by extra-Biblical references, so I honestly wouldn't even care if they used some more non-Canonical stuff. But I agree with those who say we don't really need to do this just yet, since plenty of Bible verses and characters remain for cards to be made from for years to come.

Deist · « **Reply #18 on:** July 20, 2010, 03:50:27 PM »

Sure there may be many more references and character who could be used....but how many are relevant? Is cactus going to start using characters from the long genealogies in Bible? Those characters do not really add anything to the game except a name to stamp an ability on.

The Old testament is full of stuff that would be considered witchcraft or ritualistic. I fail to see how The book of Tobit has anything controversial outside the fact that it is non-canonical.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #19 on:** July 20, 2010, 04:16:40 PM »

Quote from: Deist on July 20, 2010, 03:50:27 PM

The Old testament is full of stuff that would be considered witchcraft or ritualistic.

OT has a lot of interesting stuff in it, but one needs to know how to take it. You can't just marry a random prostitute because Amos (I think) did.

Quote

I fail to see how The book of Tobit has anything controversial outside the fact that it is non-canonical.

That's enough for me. I like playing a game based on the Bible, not the Bible, and stuff. The current additions are semi-ok because they were characters that had influence on biblical events, but weren't specifically mentioned.

Deist · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2010, 04:23:37 PM »

Quote

I fail to see how The book of Tobit has anything controversial outside the fact that it is non-canonical.

That's enough for me. I like playing a game based on the Bible, not the Bible, and stuff. The current additions are semi-ok because they were characters that had influence on biblical events, but weren't specifically mentioned.
[/quote]

...Thats interesting...I am pretty sure many of those emperors and definitely Saint Patrick had influence on Christianity...but not on biblical events mentioned in the bible. Saint Patrick lived way after events of the Bible.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2010, 04:44:50 PM »

The emperors martyred many a Christian (Just look at FooF)

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2010, 04:46:48 PM »

The emperors had an effect on the biblical events, but not Patrick.

And kittens, you mean Hosea.

Shofarblower · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2010, 05:37:42 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 20, 2010, 04:46:48 PM

The emperors had an effect on the biblical events, but not Patrick.

And kittens, you mean Hosea.

Yes it was Hosea. Also, It seems to me that if we have an Antiochus card, we should have a Judah Maccabe card.
The fact that Antiochus uses a Josephus Reference is strange to me. I would have used the reference in the book of Daniel. He isn't mentioned by name, but Bible Scholars world wide acknowledge him as the ruler mentioned.

Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

I think this is the reference, I might be wrong though.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2010, 06:55:12 PM »

The feet is Rome. Antiochus was part of the Bronze loins (Greece).

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Author Topic: Apocrypha as a Redemption expansion. (Read 12499 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk