Author Topic: Worthwhile Covenants  (Read 2351 times)

Offline Minister Polarius

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Worthwhile Covenants
« on: June 28, 2015, 02:25:06 AM »
+4
One of the cards in the Keys to the Kingdom set got me thinking about the lack of worthwhile Covenants in Redemption, whereas Curses are some of the best cards. Just rattling a few of these off the top of my head that emphasize what each theme goes for.

Covenant of the Age (Forced Draw)
2/5 Gold Covenant
"If your opponent would draw but has no cards in deck, N.T. Heroes except Martyrs ignore all Human Evil Characters this round."
~Matthew 28:20

Covenant of Eden (Hand Control)
5/2 Blue Covenant
"If opponent draws, searches, or exchanges because of his special ability, discard a card from his hand."
~Same

Covenant with Solomon (Tutoring)
4/3 Purple Covenant
"Your good O.T. Search abilities gain 'regardless of protection.' When you search, protect hand from opponents until you play a card."
~II Chronicles 1:7

Covenant of Victory (Banding)
7/0 Red Covenant
"If all your Heroes are Warrior Class, protect Human Heroes from opponent's Withdraw, Shuffle, and Capture abilities. If your Warrior Class Human Hero wins a battle, take an opponent's Site or Artifact."
~I Samuel 24:4

Covenant of Revelation (Side Battles)
3/4 Green Covenant
"When your Battle Challenge is declined, choose two Evil Characters to fight. When you win a side-battle, search deck for any card."
~Matthew 10:26

What other brigades/signature strategies don't have a worthwhile covenant?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 01:30:46 AM by Minister Polarius »
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

kariusvega

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Re: Worthwhile Covenants
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2015, 08:15:42 PM »
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very cool ideas!

Offline Gabe

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Re: Worthwhile Covenants
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2015, 08:31:38 PM »
+1
Love those ideas! How about if you win one of the chosen 3 categories at Nationals so you can make one of those a reality? :)
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Josh

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Re: Worthwhile Covenants
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2015, 11:28:07 AM »
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The Gold covenant could be a Watchful Servant replacement, except that you can use almost any NT human hero (Clay ones to be healed by Peter, those that are protected from capture/discard, etc), with the downside that demons aren't ignored. 

I think the Warrior Class one should only work if all the heroes are Red and WC.  I don't like the idea of WC Captain, TSA, Benaiah, Ira, Ehud, Jephthah, etc. getting some amazing blanket protection.  OT splash is good enough - I'd prefer this to benefit the Red-only offense.  And you could maybe add something like "When your Red WC hero redeems a LS, take an opponent's artifact or release a captured hero" to replicate the spoils of war. 

I think the hand control one is too powerful.  It's like Priest of Zeus, except more splashable.  Not all drawing is bad.  A game with no draw abilities can be very painful, and favors the person who gets their soul gen faster, or who doesn't draw souls.  A "Once per turn" cap might be in order.

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Here is a covenant that should be playable for Teal (and could also be used in other decks):

Covenant with Aaron
1/6 Teal Covenant
“Protect your Teal Priests in set-aside and discard from opponents.  Protect player from opponents’ Restrict abilities.”
Exodus 28:43
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TheHobbit13

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Re: Worthwhile Covenants
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2015, 05:23:54 PM »
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The last covenant is a little to powerful if you can search for any card after any side battle as it sets up pretty much every combo in the book. My advice would be to change it to "When you win that side battle".

The warrior class covenant is really good I like it

Covenant of Solomon is interesting but not good for the game imo. Searching is was one of the most powerful concepts in the game and definitely doesn't need a reappearance.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Worthwhile Covenants
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2015, 01:28:33 AM »
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The Gold covenant could be a Watchful Servant replacement, except that you can use almost any NT human hero (Clay ones to be healed by Peter, those that are protected from capture/discard, etc), with the downside that demons aren't ignored. 
It also gives your opponent's N.T. Heroes the ignore power and does not give the ignore power to any of the Disciples except John.

I think the Warrior Class one should only work if all the heroes are Red and WC.  I don't like the idea of WC Captain, TSA, Benaiah, Ira, Ehud, Jephthah, etc. getting some amazing blanket protection.  OT splash is good enough - I'd prefer this to benefit the Red-only offense.  And you could maybe add something like "When your Red WC hero redeems a LS, take an opponent's artifact or release a captured hero" to replicate the spoils of war.
I don't want it to be just red, but I think I will restrict it to humans and swap Discard for Withdraw. The spoils is a cool idea! 

I think the hand control one is too powerful.  It's like Priest of Zeus, except more splashable.  Not all drawing is bad.  A game with no draw abilities can be very painful, and favors the person who gets their soul gen faster, or who doesn't draw souls.  A "Once per turn" cap might be in order.
You can still draw, you just get one in your hand sniped. Most draws are greater than D1 as well, so it doesn't even stop the speed increase.
The last covenant is a little to powerful if you can search for any card after any side battle as it sets up pretty much every combo in the book. My advice would be to change it to "When you win that side battle".
Why are combos a bad thing? Right now the game is hampered by the low payoff of high-risk setup. Most of the combos done in side-battles rely on losing the side-battle to prevent negation, and the one-per-turn rule already stops them from getting crazy. Am I missing something? (I don't play T2 so I very well could be)

Covenant of Solomon is interesting but not good for the game imo. Searching is was one of the most powerful concepts in the game and definitely doesn't need a reappearance.
Currently, tutoring is entirely shut down by a single Site that requires no support, no setup, doesn't eat the art slot like drawing counters, is easily blanket protected, also protects from Mayhem, and also hides a soul. It is also much slower compared to drawing (as most drawing is D2 at the very least, usually 3+), and usually only works at certain points of the game assuming a favorable deck order (Golden Cherubim being a notable exception). This would not grant regardless status to the biggest search offenders, either.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2015, 01:31:13 AM by Minister Polarius »
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

TheHobbit13

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Re: Worthwhile Covenants
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2015, 01:42:50 AM »
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If you play it right that's two card per turn that you can get so in the combo I am thinking of using that's a pretty sweet. Can you win nationals and make it for us?? *cough* Golem, Golem *end cough*

All the reasons you stated point our why Nazereth is an ideal counter. Undoing an ideal counter more or less defeats its purpose. Its not terrible because you have to play with the card, but personally I have never like search its a bad idea in a game that has so much drawing. Also I would think search is the biggest search offender lol

kariusvega

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Re: Worthwhile Covenants
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2015, 02:56:56 PM »
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Covenant with Solomon (Tutoring)
4/3 Purple Covenant
"Your good O.T. Search abilities gain 'regardless of protection.' When you search, protect hand from opponents until you play a card."
~II Chronicles 1:7

i want to see this card printed so bad!!

Offline yirgogo

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Re: Worthwhile Covenants
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2015, 03:03:52 PM »
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How about a cost benifit? Like regardless of protection as long as you don't have the most lost souls?
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Worthwhile Covenants
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2015, 12:17:20 AM »
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I don't think it needs an additional usage condition. Artifacts have an inherent high opportunity cost; that is, if you are using Covenant with Solomon, you are not using Writ or Covenant with Death, etc. Furthermore, the ability is relatively weak: it does nothing without another card to initiate the search, and if the opponent is not using one of the two used cards that stop your searching all it does is stop Mayhem and Vain Philosophy briefly.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Josh

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Re: Worthwhile Covenants
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2015, 08:07:13 AM »
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...and if the opponent is not using one of the two used cards that stop your searching...

Covenant with Solomon doesn't get around Hez Ring, because it doesn't protect your deck from search; it Restricts you (the player) from using Search abilities.  You'd need an ability that protects yourself from opponents' Restrict abilities (like the Covenant with Aaron I created above  ;) ) to search while Hez Ring is trying to stop you.
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