Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Multi-color site: If this site is occupied, negate sites.
-Good and balanced. Strange how that works. Can function as access, but you can't use the ability. Ability is strong, but any hero can rescue from it, so it doesn't help lock out. Would need to be tested a bit to ensure it's not too good in T1 without rescuer's choice, but I don't think it would be.

Dude, you totally ripped off my idea without giving any credit

The other card could be a mutli-colored site that negates your opponent's sites as long as it was occupied.  That would still be really powerful, but would give your opponent ways to deal with it (Burial, SoG, rescuing, cards that discard occupied sites, etc.).  It would also be useful for site access since it would be multi-colored.

More mechanically complex and unique cards that create interesting play experiences for the user and opponent.
The Gates of Hell, Herod's Temple, these cards all add opportunities to make big plays and create room for error that most other cards don't have. If I discard my gates this turn, will I need the bottom deck next turn? If I save my hero this turn but I discard a dominant was it worth it?
Cards like this are much more interesting than binary cards like Garden Tomb, "If X do Y." doesn't create interesting game situations.

Something else this game needs:

Less CBN/CBI. The only time I am okay with with these is if they are conditional based on the opponent (See: David's Triumph). CBP is great, because it keeps FBTN in check without being too strong.

The starters were a good step in this direction.

Other games don't have like 20+ themes in my experience.

But there is also much more diversity within the theme of other games, so it makes it a different argument in my opinion. I'll be perfectly honest, I was almost ready to retire after this year except Booster and Sealed? Why? Because there is little variety in the decks, especially type 2. I am sick of facing Judges (which I did about 80% of the time I played at state, regionals, and nationals), and Disciples were no better. I am sure that my opponents have seen enough Isaiah decks to last a lifetime, but that's the main current options. Yes, there are a few who would play Royalty, Priests, Genesis, and/or Warriors, but they are few and far between. Besides which, that's 7 offenses, not much variety there. There really should be more than a dozen viable offensive and defensive strategies that could be top contenders in the game, because that's what makes it interesting. At the same time, I do not want a carbon copy of one battle winner type used for other colors (see horses and end the battle cards or Negate/Discard CBN).

I find it very interesting that Redemption has over 2000 cards printed in nearly 20 years, yet only 500-600 at best are viable for top decks (or even competitive decks). There is a way to boost other themes without making them overpowered. I know I don't have the answers, but I know that quite a few of the new card ideas have been very interesting

Because there is little variety in the decks, especially type 2. I am sick of facing Judges (which I did about 80% of the time I played at state, regionals, and nationals), and Disciples were no better. I am sure that my opponents have seen enough Isaiah decks to last a lifetime, but that's the main current options. Yes, there are a few who would play Royalty, Priests, Genesis, and/or Warriors, but they are few and far between. Besides which, that's 7 offenses, not much variety there.

I very much disagree that there is little diversity in T2. Considering there were only 10 T2 players at Nationals this year, the fact that there were at least 4-5 different offenses represented (Isaiah, Disciples, Judges, Genesis, and CtB-and that's just what I remember) is somewhat surprising. I went to 5 big T2 tournaments this year, and the following offenses won each one:

2P
T2 Only: Genesis-heavy Combo Deck
NC Regionals: Isaiah
NE Regionals: Royalty
MN State: Solomon's Temple Priests
MW Regionals: Mono-silver.

MP
T2 Only: I don't remember. I have repressed this category from my memory. It was kind of traumatizing.*
NC Regionals: Red Warriors/Royalty
NE Regionals: Disciples+NT Prophets
MN State: Mono-silver
MW Regionals: Mono-silver

So out of those 10 categories (which represent the major T2 venues pretty well IMO) there are at least 7 different theme variations. And the only theme to be repeated was mono-silver, which I assume you would admit is not your typical dominant strategy. I know you have your own experiences and I won't dispute that, but I just wanted to state that the evidence I see doesn't jive with that. 

There really should be more than a dozen viable offensive and defensive strategies that could be top contenders in the game, because that's what makes it interesting. At the same time, I do not want a carbon copy of one battle winner type used for other colors (see horses and end the battle cards or Negate/Discard CBN).

I'd venture to guess that there are at least a dozen viable strategies out there, but that since T2 is a relatively small category in terms of numbers (approximately 1/4 the size of T1 in most of the more recent National tournies), most players tend to stick with what they know to be good. For example, just think of some of the themes which are certainly viable (probably not to the same extent as some others, but that doesn't mean they aren't) that didn't make your list or mine:

TGT Ladies
FBTNB (maybe not quite as viable now, but still at least competitive).
Luke/John
Non-Isaiah Prophets (which can be splashed with other strategies--not jsut Isaiah)
Musicians (Don't laugh, but I've seen some pretty decent attempts at a musicians offense)

I agree with you about avoiding carbon-copy type cards, but I think there was some value in that tactic early on: such cards gave other themes such a significant advantage, that once Assyrian Archer (or even before that Absalom's Soldiers), Forgotten History, and 2kH had all come out, there didn't seem to be much reason to not use a pale green defense in T2. But now that themes are becoming stronger and more dedicated to certain ability types, it is likely that those kinds of cards can be avoided (i.e. I don't foresee a Canaanite Horses or Babylonian end the battle card coming anytime soon).

I find it very interesting that Redemption has over 2000 cards printed in nearly 20 years, yet only 500-600 at best are viable for top decks (or even competitive decks). There is a way to boost other themes without making them overpowered. I know I don't have the answers, but I know that quite a few of the new card ideas have been very interesting

Intersting, maybe, but I don't find it surprising at all. I am no expert on any other CCG, so I could be wrong, but I would guess that a high majority of cards to have been printed through the lifetime of those games are also no longer viable. Attribute that to Power Creep or the natural evolution of the game, or what have you, but I don't think it should be a shock to anyone. I think that a better indicator of the health of the game is the number of cards in recent sets that are viable for decks. I'd estimate that in every set printed since Priests, that at least 70% of the cards are viable in today's meta.

*There's an old guy from Missouri who would be more than happy to fill you in on the details. All I remember about that evening is the repeated sound of me bashing my head against a wall.

I think it'd be nice to see some enhancements without special abilities.

I think we got plenty of those in Unlimited and Prophets. Just use three copies of those old cards.

I started some research under the same opinion as jmhartz, but my results just don't really support that point of view.

For starters, there are several themes that, by definition, can't have female heroes (Angels, Disciples, Priests). After that, you're left with 8 offensive themes. Warrior-class Red doesn't have any females, afaik, because there weren't any that fought battles back then. TGT/NT white is exclusively females. Luke/John is almost exclusively female as well. Prophets has every female, I believe, that is actually a prophet. Genesis has very good female heroes, at least 1-2 of which are always run in non-splash/Job Genesis offenses. Judges has the only female judge, so there isn't any room there. Pretty much the only themes that could maybe actually have more female heroes are Kings/royalty/OT purple and Musicians (personally, Miriam would fit better in white unless they make a green Exodus theme).

I'm all for more women but, as you said, the Bible (especially the OT) is very male-heavy. So, not really sure where you expect them to pull these"quality female heroes" from, lol.

Women 2 expansion anyone?

This thread has been very helpful!  Keep up the great contributions!

Jael is so underrated,

Just print her in a new color with some enhancements to back her up.

After all only two people in the Bible were described as "blessed among all women." You all know about Marry but can you guess the second?

For all of you frustrated by all the Foreign Wives floating around, think of all the female heroes who can ignore her (thereby giving you a free turn to draw and not forfeit a rescue):
- Miriam, Jochebed, Eve, TGT Women

That has to count for something. How many males can ignore her?
- Peter, John, Zebulun

I guess it shows men as susceptible to the influence of wives...

Kirk

Quote from: browarod on August 20, 2013, 02:02:59 PM

Prophets has every female, I believe, that is actually a prophet.

Definitely not.  Deborah, Huldah, Philip's Daughters, and NT Elisabeth just off the top of my head.

I said "I believe" because I'm not a Bible expert (I didn't even know any of those 4 were prophets, or that Huldah was female, lol). Deborah is already in judges, though, and is better for that theme with no s/a (and is already gold). I guess you have me on the other 3 (questionably).

Even so, that's still only 3 females to reprint, lol.

To name some more:
Oppressive Women (E/F starter deck card, needs reprint)
Peter's Mother-in-Law
Lois
Eunice
Esther could be more useful
Yoda (I think it's spelled Euoida but that's how I pronounce it)
Syntyche
Mary should be better
Orpah
Athaliah
Jochebed
Sarah
Rebekah
Jael
Mary of Bethany
Michal
Pharoah's Daughter
Queen of Sheba
Rahab
King's Daughter
Queen Vashti could be made

As you can see there are plenty of potential reprints for Women.