Author Topic: TOtB #3 (Read 5252 times)

Gabe · « **on:** May 07, 2012, 05:23:19 PM »

Thinking Outside the Box #3 - Angel at Eden

I'm going to share some rough ideas that do things that have haven't been done before in Redemption. These are untested and probably need more work before they are could ever see print. Your feedback is appreciated!

Concept: The angel God sent to guard Eden was meant to keep humans out of the garden. This angel protects Sites, effectively keeping opponent's human Heroes from gaining access. Is it weird to have an angel pseudo block?

cookie monster · « **Reply #1 on:** May 07, 2012, 06:19:22 PM »

This seems pretty good

Arrthoa · « **Reply #2 on:** May 07, 2012, 06:21:36 PM »

I would love to have this in my Genesis deck so much

Red · « **Reply #3 on:** May 07, 2012, 06:23:48 PM »

Love this idea! May even create some ideas of my own!

Jmbeers · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2012, 06:53:05 PM »

He is interesting without a doubt. I'm feeling like he's missing something though. Mabey make him CBI while holding flaming sword and discard himself if holder has no sites in play.

lp670sv · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2012, 06:54:26 PM »

Why would their be lost souls in the Garden of Eden

Jmbeers · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2012, 06:56:11 PM »

Because I captured Eve!

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:01:38 PM »

So if the sites would be protected, the lost souls would be as well? That doesn't make much sense, but I like the idea. Seems like it'd make more sense if it said fortresses, but this is much better.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:07:28 PM »

I'm not so sure I like this idea too much. I'm uncomfortable with a hero help make blocks.

dermo4christ · « **Reply #9 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:08:32 PM »

This is card is saying, "Dermo, add me to your Genegyptian deck....add me! add me! add me!" lol. Awesome card!

dermo4christ · « **Reply #10 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:09:48 PM »

so are we going to see the flaming sword card?

?

Jmbeers · « **Reply #11 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:13:11 PM »

Flaming Sword is already a card.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #12 on:** May 07, 2012, 07:29:31 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on May 07, 2012, 07:07:28 PM

I'm not so sure I like this idea too much. I'm uncomfortable with a hero help make blocks.

It would shut down speed. No matter how good your offense is, you aren't rescuing any souls.

Well, unless you have insane soul gen.

dermo4christ · « **Reply #13 on:** May 07, 2012, 09:04:39 PM »

Quote from: Jmbeers on May 07, 2012, 07:13:11 PM

Flaming Sword is already a card.

I know it is....I was just thinking that Gabe created a new version of it. I wanted to see it.

CJSports · « **Reply #14 on:** May 07, 2012, 09:24:39 PM »

I came up with a this very same card with a completely different concept behind it but I called it The Guardian Cherubim.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #15 on:** May 07, 2012, 10:06:53 PM »

I think this is an ok idea but this particular version of it is too easily abused. If Jacob couldn't band to him, maybe... he just fits too well into a Genesis deck right now and that's already a good deck

Gabe · « **Reply #16 on:** May 08, 2012, 12:54:03 AM »

First, I should note that none of these cards were solely my idea. I'm just the one who can make them look pretty in photoshop.

Ring Wraith, if the Sites are protected they can't be targeted by access abilities. At least I believe that's how it would work. If I'm wrong about that then I'll need to adjust the ability accordingly.

Dermo, I haven't made a new version of Flaming Sword. If a version of this card ever sees print, I imagine we could see a weapon class Flaming Sword eventually.

CJSports, I've seen a version of Guardian Cherubim. I don't know if it was yours or not but it was dramatically different than this. In fact the only thing they really have in common is that they use the same scripture and brigade. But it was the inspiration for this card.

Alex, that's a legit concern. If we come up with a working version and if it ever fits into a future set this would be tested for months before it sees print. There are at least three different ways to approach a Genesis build and I don't see this guy being a shoe in for the current powerhouse version, but I could be wrong about that.

Thanks for the feedback and questions. Keep it coming please.

jbeers285 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:32:08 AM »

I also dislike the idea of a hero aiding in the prevention of a lost soul being saved . . . I like the idea of the card but just can't get over the hero thing

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #18 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:46:06 AM »

Do access abilities target the sites? The REG only says they target the heroes.

http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/REG/default.htm?turl=Master%2Fhowtoplay26.htm

Quote

A gain access ability is ongoing. Gain access abilities target the Heroes that gain access.

And is it supposed to stop all access (via site/matching brigade as well as abilities)?

galadgawyn · « **Reply #19 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:49:57 AM »

Interesting idea. Here's my constructive criticism:

I'm pretty much not a fan of abilities that protect from all of opponent's cards, period. I realize that the angel's ability could be negated but otherwise there is no way to counter this short of printing some more regardless cards. I think broad protection that still has a hole in it is better (protect from opponent's evil cards or protect from opponents characters and enhancements, etc). If there are more blanket protection cards then I think they should have a cost associated. I think protecting from all opponents is also a little op. It'd make it hard to not want to use that in multiplayer.

I think that you mean this to deny acces to opponents. I'm sure this wouldn't do that unless we've all been playing Caesarea Philippi (Di) wrong.

Quote

• Special Ability: Protect N.T. human Evil Characters in your territory from capture and discard abilities on opponents' cards. Protect N.T. Sites in your territory from opponents' cards. •

I think that site access targets the hero, not the sites. This ability simply protects the sites which is pretty powerful with the nice sites out there and gets better with any new powerful sites.

To protect the souls you could say: Protect your lost souls in sites from opponent's humans, or protect your lost soul sites and cards on them from opponent's cards (except angels), or restrict your opponent's human heros from entering battle until next turn, or your opponents' human heros have no brigade color until next turn.

Conceptually/Theologically I have to agree with lp's comment. Eden didn't have lost souls in it; it was protected from fallen humans entering (I think to prevent them from being eternally locked in that state since we have to die to sin with Christ in order to live with Christ). I think a closer example of angels keeping humans out of a place and away from lost souls would be the angels at Sodom and Gomorrah and the forced evacuation of Lot's family.

I'm not sure a hero acting as a hero should prevent all the souls from being saved but there are examples where God limited salvation to be not this person at this time like in Sodom where they seemed to be past the point of repentance and all that was left was judgement.

jbeers285 · « **Reply #20 on:** May 08, 2012, 02:00:14 AM »

I understand your example of sodom and i know u could also point to the flood however, i feel that scripture from the NT demonstrates that no one is out of God's reach and anyone can be saved no matter what sins they have committed if they turn their hearts to christ, recognize their sin and accept grace. . . this being said i do believe people can harden their hearts to a point where they will not have the desire to confess or turn from their sin. still i believe through prayer, love and humility given to them by the body of christ (us) these people could be reached . . . as far as ur comments directly related to the total protection, i agree that some sort of cost needs to be added

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #21 on:** May 08, 2012, 02:00:39 AM »

All you have to say to stop site access is:
"Lost Souls in sites cannot be rescued except by angels" and whatever duration and/or restrictions you chose to give it.

I like the ability and the scripture matches the ability, however I still find it strange that The Garden of Eden is a site that can be used to hold lost souls when the only humans in it were Adam and Eve until their fall (I guess technically they were lost souls for whatever time it took from when they ate the fruit until they were banished)

I think this ability would work better on a curse, probably something from Jeremiah about how God was going to destroy Jerusalem and there was nothing they could do about it (I can't remember where it is and Jeremiah is too long for me to look through it right now, maybe I'll have something later)

I do however like the idea for the character and the picture is awesome, and just because the ability would work better on a curse doesn't mean this card can't have it either.

STAMP · « **Reply #22 on:** May 08, 2012, 11:36:22 AM »

with lp670sv and galadgawyn. Good idea in general, but would prefer it to be more Biblically correct.

I still wish Garden of Eden had not been a site. It should have been a fortress. Yeah, yeah, some might say that Adam and Eve were in the garden when they sort of became "lost", but then they were expelled - basically God saying "no lost souls belong here, so get out!"

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #23 on:** May 09, 2012, 02:03:26 PM »

"Protect Heroes from Site Access and restrict all opponents from putting multi-colored Sites in battle until your next turn?" It's much less pithy but it's the best way I can think of to do what you want it to do.

Gabe · « **Reply #24 on:** May 10, 2012, 01:09:31 AM »

Thanks for the feedback.

You guys are correct, protecting Sites doesn't do what I wanted for stopping access. Maybe this ability works?

"Protect Lost Souls in Sites from rescue by human Heroes until your next turn."

For those of you that prefer a more theologically correct ability, let's try this:

"Look through opponent's collection and rip all Garden of Eden Sites. For the remainder of the game, if Adam or Eve enter battle, set them on fire."

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Author Topic: TOtB #3 (Read 5252 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk