Cactus Game Design Message Boards

False Religion.
Artifact
Owner may discard a good dominant from hand to discard a card in opponent's territory. Each player must draw a card.
Same scripture as A bomb. Daniel 11:18 I think?
Use this with Abomination of Desolation, and it also hurts good dominants. Has a very balanced cost on both sides I think. Let me know if you guys like it.

Thank you. I know I would use it.

I would limit it to a one time use (at most a 2 use art).  it does cost a good dominant which does make it pretty pricy.  It will make you think abou adding extra doms to use it, but then you run into the problem of hand clog if you cant pull the art quickly enough.  Plus t hose good doms take up deck space for good battle winners....

other than the use limit I like it and think it is balanced.

Borders on being too strong, though it would have to be tried out before a final judgment could be made.

I think Abom decks would actually be replaced by Chamber/IaH/Angel at the Tomb decks. Huge defense with that small offense, then have a Lampstand in a temple...Certainly not unstoppable, but it could certainly be devious.

Yeah, I'd use it in every deck to snipe TGT.

I think it might be better if it was maybe Good Card rather than any card, it keeps the protection discarding then evil character nuking or discarding artifacts. (they are already way to easy to get rid of)

I don't like the idea of killing defenses without letting them block too much.

I love this card. it can snipe protect fortresses, which helps TGT, but it can snipe TGT, Z's Temple, annoying Lampy holders, sites... everything! although Prof is right in saying that Angel at the Tomb would be a downfall...

AoCP is not uber, IMO. it's good, yes, but not uber. near end game, yeah, it's bad, but it's purple, so...

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I think it might be better if it was maybe Good Card rather than any card, it keeps the protection discarding then evil character nuking or discarding artifacts. (they are already way to easy to get rid of)

I can see where you are coming from on that, good feedback on that one.

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I don't like the idea of killing defenses without letting them block too much.

People just need to make a stronger defense then. It's almost sad that a Zebelun deck won Type 2 MN blowout. Although Zebby is a great idea and strategy, I would not use it at a tournament with that much player skill. Although I know Gabe is one of the best Redemption players out there, if not the best overall player, a Zebby  offense should still be stopped. I think people's defenses are not strong enough right now,  but that is not from a lack of cards.

I think Gabe primarily used that because of Speed Camp. I agree though, Zebby isn't powerful enough to create a deck around and win huge tournaments. still, it was done, so...

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on March 08, 2010, 11:56:27 PM
Anyway Pol is right, this can take out TGT, and yes this can be used in a TGT deck as well, but you are saying how this would be used in every TGT deck to take out snipe fortresses, well I would use it against you and snipe your TGT... who's wins now?

Whoever has AoCP.

Why do you think AoC is a dominant like card? You keep referring to it as if once you play it, you automatically win. I guess you have not played too long or else you would remember that there were times before protection fortresses and people could still block. And to counter your statement on who wins, what if both players have AoC, what if someone has dominants, writ active, EC's in hand, unknown nation, the list can go on. Make a strong defense if you are so strung up on AoC.


Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on March 08, 2010, 11:56:27 PM
Causes for more strategy and hurts TGT

I would say it helps it just as much if not more.

I would completely disagree, and say that it hurts it just as much as helps it, or hurts it more than helping it. What can a TGT hero do without a TGT... give away initiative is about it.

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on March 08, 2010, 11:56:27 PM
People would add more dominants in their deck which hurts Speed Camp, which might win Type 2 2 player again this year at nationals

I just don't like the idea of encouraging dominants at all.

I agree, but this does not encourage dominants. Although people would put more in their deck, they would not be used, meaning it would do what you want, and that is hurt dominants...
Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on March 08, 2010, 11:56:27 PM
Discourages playing dominants

No, it encourages putting more domianants in your deck, and thus having less room for other cards.

Less room for other cards? The way you talk makes it seem like one can only have a 50 card deck. The average type 1 deck uses six dominants. If this card was made people might use Glory of the Lord. Wow people would start making a useless card playable! That is a definite positive. Also the dominant count would now be 7 compared to 6, less room for other cards you say...how about less room for other card, leave out the s at the end of that.

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on March 08, 2010, 11:56:27 PM
... more people deciding whether or not to use dominants. ...
I do not understand how this card would in any way make anyone want to use fewer dominants. I'm curious as to how you could have reached this conclusion. Or am I misunderstanding?

Quote from: Mr.Hiatus on March 08, 2010, 11:56:27 PM
Also a counter card could be made for this.
I

f you have a counter in mind, please post it. Otherwise, this is a dangerous assumption.

Easy, an artifact that says if a dominant was discarded without being used you may... you fill in the blank. This card can go anywhere, but no matter what it would make people using this artifact have to be able to get around that.

And on a related note, I don't see why people keep trying to find ways to get rid of protect fortresses when just about nobody is trying to counter AoCP.

Ugh you and AoC, what is it, did you play type 2 against an AoC promo recursion deck or something, I have not seen one of those since after Angel Wars.  Back to my original point, you make it seem that AoC is the best card in the game, yes it is strong but there are so many ways around it now that it's not a viable strategy without supporting it with something else. People are no longer trying to hurt AoC because it has already been hurt!

I think Gabe primarily used that because of Speed Camp. I agree though, Zebby isn't powerful enough to create a deck around and win huge tournaments. still, it was done, so...

On a side note, me and Gabe must think alike because I made a Zebby deck the other week for a district tournament because I knew I would play Clift's speed camp, I still got the lock down...
 

There are only a few ways - or a few themes - that can be successful at combating TGT, and some people like to use ways (themes) other than those.

I hit on this earlier with AoC, but I will go all out with TGT. First off if you are playing their color you can block. If you are using TGT as well, you are helped out a lot. If you are using sites, Writs, other than the protected themes, you also have Philistine Outpost, Gates of Hell, territory cards which negate TGT, place cards which can do all sorts of stuff, banding on offense, and simply playing with a lot of EC's. I know some of those strategies include fortresses, but what I named can be paired up with things and make for a very strong defense.

Why do you think AoC is a dominant like card? You keep referring to it as if once you play it, you automatically win. I guess you have not played too long or else you would remember that there were times before protection fortresses and people could still block. And to counter your statement on who wins, what if both players have AoC, what if someone has dominants, writ active, EC's in hand, unknown nation, the list can go on. Make a strong defense if you are so strung up on AoC.
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Ugh you and AoC, what is it, did you play type 2 against an AoC promo recursion deck or something, I have not seen one of those since after Angel Wars.  Back to my original point, you make it seem that AoC is the best card in the game, yes it is strong but there are so many ways around it now that it's not a viable strategy without supporting it with something else. People are no longer trying to hurt AoC because it has already been hurt!

So many ways around AoCP? Are you referring to protect forts? You may have been around longer than I have, but apparently you haven't seen many recent decks, because I see AoCP being used (successfully) way more than it should. It eliminates defenses. It's especially devastating if someone is using protect forts, and thus has been laying most of his EC's down, but is then surprised to see possibly his only form of protection suddenly disapper. Your support of "stronger" defenses to counter TGT seems to me to conflict with your disregard of the power of AoCP.

Lambo hit it on the head there. Also some more facts on ranking decks... this past years type 2 decks that got 1st-3rd included a grand total of 2? maybe even 1 AoC P. I do not know about type 1 because I play type 2, but the only AoC's were in a speed camp deck. I have had my fair share of tournament wins in plenty of categories, and I can tell you AOC might be annoying, but it is a side strategy or offensive support card now, not a card which a deck is based around like it used to be. 

but apparently you haven't seen many recent decks, because I see AoCP being used (successfully) way more than it should.

LOL

I would like to repost this, since you didn't seem to address it:

You can disagree with me if you want, but just humor me for a moment; here's a proposition of an ability that would make me more comfortable but still do basically what you intended: "All players must draw a card. You may discard a good card from hand to use this ability twice." This way the card can only be used effectively by an Abom player.