Author Topic: The next Redemption dominant card  (Read 10947 times)

Offline Tsavong Lah

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2009, 02:06:14 AM »
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for example, these cards could have an identifier called intimidation meaning they can't be ignored by any abilities. A Goliath reprint would fit well with this idea. The actual abilities on the character can be dumbed down a bit because not being able to be ignored is still pretty powerful.

Not a bad idea. A character with the SA "Cannot be Ignored" could be useful, but not too overpowered.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2009, 02:26:57 AM »
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I'm still of the opinion that the next Dominant should be one that Interrupts all Artifacts and Discards any Good Fortress in play or set-aside. TGT and Z-Temple decks basically rely on nothing but two hard-to-kill fortresses that severely limit what the opponent can do on defense. A Dom to kill those would do just the trick, and it wouldn't be unstoppable if you used Protection of Jerusalem. You could also use it to stop David's Throne, Obediah's Caves, etc.

The reason I still propose this as the next Dom is that while the defensive theme fortresses enhance the theme but aren't required, the offensive fortresses completely buttress the strategy which largely fails without them. In the current game environment, that's ok because it's nigh on impossible to get rid of Fortresses. RDJ is the only viable option (because unlike all the other Fort killers it's useful even if the opponent doesn't have a staple Fortress, whereas Spreading Mildew etc. is a non-battle-winner at best and a completely wasted card at worst), but even then it prevents you from using the best offenses because it would destroy your own staple.

The best part about the Dominant is that it wouldn't necessarily be a staple. By introducing an easier way to destroy fortresses, fewer people would build offenses that rely on them. Then fewer people would feel the need to include the Dom, and balance would be restored.

However, if it did end up being this Dominant, I'd be happy too.
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2009, 03:08:08 AM »
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Its a battle winner with E warden. But I agree. Or maybe a multi colored card like lug?
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2009, 07:17:09 AM »
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That's what I vote, maybe something like this:

Romans Defile the Temple
3/3 MC EE
"Discard one fortress in play."
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2009, 11:31:41 AM »
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Have fun in the garden.

Offline STAMP

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2009, 12:12:43 PM »
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Re: The next Redemption dominant card

I'm pretty sure there will be six dominants in the next release.   ;)


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Offline New Raven BR

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2009, 12:16:49 PM »
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Re: The next Redemption dominant card

I'm pretty sure there will be six dominants in the next release.   ;)



not to burst your bubble but i think the new release is gonna be the I/J starters.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2009, 12:27:10 PM »
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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
I'm pretty sure there will be six dominants in the next release.   ;)
not to burst your bubble but i think the new release is gonna be the I/J starters.

The I/J starter will contain 6 dominants instead of 4?  You heard it here first folks!  :o
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Offline STAMP

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2009, 12:32:55 PM »
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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
I'm pretty sure there will be six dominants in the next release.   ;)
not to burst your bubble but i think the new release is gonna be the I/J starters.

The I/J starter will contain 6 dominants instead of 4?  You heard it here first folks!  :o

I hope there are 6.  If not, one deck will be slightly more powerful than the other.   ;)


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Offline New Raven BR

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2009, 12:34:53 PM »
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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
I'm pretty sure there will be six dominants in the next release.   ;)
not to burst your bubble but i think the new release is gonna be the I/J starters.

The I/J starter will contain 6 dominants instead of 4?  You heard it here first folks!  :o
there have already been 6 dominants in starters.
2 sogs, 2 aotls, a cm and a burial  ;)
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2009, 12:38:14 PM »
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Romans Defile the Temple
3/3 MC EE
"Discard one fortress in play."

I would make it

    3/3 MC EE
    Discard all NT heroes and all fortresses in play.  Can't be negated.

Wait, that would be too OP, maybe we could limit it to Romans or something.  How about,

    3/3 MC EE
    If used by a Roman, discard all NT heroes and all fortresses in play.  Can't be negated.

I like it, except why would Romans destroy Rome--that doesn't make any sense. Let's try...

    3/3 MC EE
    If used by a Roman, discard all NT heroes and all fortresses in play, except Rome.  Can't be negated.

Just about perfect.  The only thing nagging at me is that all the new Roman emperors are like 10/1, so maybe we should redistribute the ability points to stick with that theme.  So, we end up with

    6/0 MC EE
    If used by a Roman, discard all NT heroes and all fortresses in play, except Rome.  Can't be negated.

That would be schweet.  Now if I could only come up with a name.

;)

Offline New Raven BR

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2009, 12:39:34 PM »
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MC?
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2009, 01:41:00 PM »
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The problem with an enhancement or an EC special ability is that they will never be able to be played vs. a TGT deck.  That is why we need a card that is a dominant (or some sort of new identifier that makes a character unable to be ignored).

Offline Gabe

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2009, 02:02:22 PM »
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How about a Fortress?

While this Fortess is in play your protected from all "cheap shots" your opponent might take.  This includes coward blocks, choose the blocker, choose the rescuer and ignore abilities.  You may discard a good Dominant to negate this for one round.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2009, 02:45:34 PM »
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The problem with an enhancement or an EC special ability is that they will never be able to be played vs. a TGT deck.

That's not correct. Although it takes some foresight in deck building, it's nowhere near impossible or even difficult to play an EC or an EE against a TGT deck. Take it from someone who had his TGT offense dismantled by his son's well designed counter at a recent tournament.

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2009, 02:59:37 PM »
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Protection forts usually help, the only issue I have is when that fort dies, or doesn't get drawn.
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Offline soul seeker

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2009, 03:51:25 PM »
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I personally like: "star of your gods" from another thread.  That dominant can change the face of Defensive stand if you can go in your or your opponent's discard pile and pull out an EC.  Make it a bander and boom you have 2 ECs in battle or 2 of the same brigade in play.  Lots of variation there...
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2009, 09:59:09 PM »
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How about this as a dominant:

"If your opponent is ignoring any of your characters before you enter battle, you may negate and discard all of your opponent's cards in play (except Lost Souls)."

:angel:
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Offline Isildur

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2009, 10:00:54 PM »
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im really late into this topic but hasnt any one heard of lurking before or even darkness(the fort)?
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2009, 11:08:08 PM »
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im really late into this topic but hasnt any one heard of lurking before or even darkness(the fort)?
Neither of those will be any good against a Garden Tomb deck.

Offline Sean

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2009, 12:01:55 AM »
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After reading this thread I couldn't help but think about all the old threads that went something like this:
"oh noes FBN is so OP.  There's nothing to stop it.  Blah blah blah."

The problem is not ignore, the problem is pre-block ignore.  That is why I was so displeased with Jacob when FooF was released.  The last thing this game needed was another Ethiopian Treasurer.  The Garden Tomb poses the same problem and has no direct counters.  Is there even a card that targets NT Fortresses?

Currently, the only option to combat The Garden Tomb are Defiant and Masquerading.  Go look up their special abilities because I know most of you probably don't remember what they are.  Then you hit the problem of being able to play them in the first place.

I am also very sure that solving balance issues with dominants is not the way to go.  We need cards that won't log jam deck building not more "use this or lose" cards.

We need a batch of cards that have the same wording as Defiant and Masquerading.  Set aside cards would really shine here.  Here's some ideas:

Defiant
Palegreen/Orange Enhancement
Set aside a demon for one turn.  On return, demon may gain "Cannot be ignored while remaining in play" or "Cannot be removed from the game while remaining in play."

Masquerading
Crimson/Orange Enhancement
Set aside a demon for one turn.  On return, demon gains either "Cannot be ignored while remaining in play" or "Cannot be discarded while remaining in play.

Stubbornness
Gray/Black Enhancement
Set aside up to X generic, human Evil Characters for X turns.  On return, characters gain either "Cannot be ignored while remaining in play'' or "Cannot be converted while remaining in play."  If X is greater than 4, characters may gain both.
X=Number of Fortresses one opponent has in play

Sean
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Offline Tsavong Lah

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2009, 12:32:16 AM »
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Quote from: Gohanik
for example, these cards could have an identifier called intimidation meaning they can't be ignored by any abilities. A Goliath reprint would fit well with this idea. The actual abilities on the character can be dumbed down a bit because not being able to be ignored is still pretty powerful.

Not a bad idea. A character with the SA "Cannot be Ignored" could be useful, but not too overpowered.

Looks like the phrase "Cannot be Ignored" has precedence as far back as Angel Wars. Nice find, Sean, and great ideas.
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Offline Bryon

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2009, 01:00:18 AM »
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Beating The Garden Tomb is easy: don't rescue until your defense is set up with a few characters and a protection fort.  :)

If you think you might face Garden Tomb, play one evil brigade and use a good number of ECs.

Of course, there will be some interesting ways to combat TGT in the next set, too.  :)

Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2009, 07:41:18 AM »
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Yay, our first spoiler! ;D
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: The next Redemption dominant card
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2009, 11:00:46 AM »
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Beating The Garden Tomb is easy: don't rescue until your defense is set up with a few characters and a protection fort.  :)
Oddly enough I did just beat a TGT deck by waiting forever to take my first LS.  However, that won't work against a deck that uses TGT as well as other ways to win LSs.  Waiting that long just means they get to 5 first.

If you think you might face Garden Tomb, play one evil brigade and use a good number of ECs.
Almost all my decks this year have one evil brigade, a good number of ECs, and a protection fort.  Yet still it is easier to draw a TGT hero (when there are 4 in your deck) and TGT (or the hero who pulls it out), than it is to draw 3 ECs in your first turn.  And you need 3 most times because there are so many ways to take out ECs (Holy Grail, Jepthah, AotL, etc.) before they get a chance to block.  And if they draw ET + AoCP, then having 3 ECs doesn't matter either.

I know it seems like it should be easy to stop TGT, but in actual games, it seems like it is unexpectedly difficult.

Of course, there will be some interesting ways to combat TGT in the next set, too.  :)
That is good to hear.  I also hope that there will be a lack of more cards of that nature.  We don't need more ways to stop people playing a game from being able to even play.

 


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