The 2018 Community Created Card: Stats voting and Special ability suggestions

[The Guardian]

So here's the deal...Rapha, the Father of Giants will be in the black brigade and will be Warrior Class. There's no sense is spending time on a vote for those things. 

However, his stats (*/*) can definitely be voted on and discussed, and I will allow vote changing in this round. Unlike the last round, I want to encourage people to share their creative reasons for the stats they vote for.

A few notes:
--12/12 is the maximum stats we have set for characters so there will not be any higher options that that.
--Traditionally Giants have had stats that added up to 20, with that in mind, I am going to make the minimum stats (for either side) 8. (If someone presents a very compelling reason to go below 8, I will consider adding it as an option.) Also, being that Rapha was the "big daddy" of the family of giants, we are open to him going above 20 on the total stats (so the options will be between 8 & 12 for both strength and toughness).
--Everyone will have two votes; ideally everyone should vote for one of the strength options and one of the toughness options, but I can't really control that so if you really want to vote for 2 different strength options...go with your bad self. 

Voting on stats will end this Thursday at 3:25 pm.

Lastly, I will begin taking suggestions for the special ability (including ideas for a Territory Class character). I will present the ideas to the playtest team and together we will review them, make wording tweaks, ensure the ability would fit and then present the ones we feel are the best choices for a player vote. You can make submissions here or via PM to myself.

To help people monitor the length of the SA, Gabe has written the following which uses the maximum space we have available in the text box.
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"When you write a special ability it will need to be no longer than this block of text. If you use things like Enhancement or opponents, they can cause text to cut off a row early which shortens the SA."
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If your special ability is longer than that it cannot be used without modifications to shorten it.

Can't wait to hear your ideas! 

[NathanW]

I think I kinda see where this voting is going.... unless somebody gives a reason for not going 12/12

[The Guardian]

My votes:

Strength -- 11
Toughness -- 11

I definitely think that as the Father of the Giants, Rapha should be higher than the usual 20 that giants get. However, because we don't really know of any huge battles he was in, I didn't think he necessarily needed to be at the "12" level.

[redemption collector 777]

My vote is 9/12  because according to lackey there is no evil characters with this stats ever printed so far.

[TheHobbit13]

I like 12/12 too. Might as well stat stuff this guy.


Rapha the Giant

12/12
Territory class

 Each time you play a giant you may search deck, discard pile, or reserve for a philistine evil character or black weapon. When blocking, discard an enhancement (in play)  to protect philistines in territory from opponent's cards. CBN

[Noah]

Rapha, Father of Giants

12/12

Warrior Class
Territory Class

Special ability:
Search deck or discard pile reserve for a Philistine Giant. If a Philistine Giant is removed from battle, you may add a generic Philistine to battle (Limit once per turn). Cannot be negated.

Philistines need a way around AotL.

[Red Dragon Thorn]

I voted for 12 Strength 11 Strength because somebody's gotta be that guy.

Just kidding, I voted for the max.

You may search Reserve for a Giant. If your Giant is holding a weapon, negate other characters and Enhancements in battle. Cannot be interrupted.

Let's you stash some guys in your reserve, and creates interesting tension with the 'discard to use' weapons

[TheHobbit13]

I voted for 12 Strength 11 Strength because somebody's gotta be that guy.

Just kidding, I voted for the max.

You may search Reserve for a Giant. If your Giant is holding a weapon, negate other characters and Enhancements in battle. Cannot be interrupted.

Let's you stash some guys in your reserve, and creates interesting tension with the 'discard to use' weapons

Do you want  the negate other character and enhancements in battle to function  like bringing fear? That would be really cool, because I assume it's territory class. Or do you want your enhancements to be negated as well?

[NathanW]

The more cards that are printed with "negate all enhancements/characters" the more CBN/CPB/CPI cards will be made....

[Asahel24601]

Rapha, Father of Giants
10/12 Territory class Warrior class Philistine
When you are attacked, you may search deck or reserve for a giant and put them in play. If blocking, you may negate a card not in battle. Cannot be prevented.

[Jeremystair]

Rapha, Father of Giants
12/12 Territory class Warrior class Philistine
When you are attacked, you may search deck, discard pile or reserve for a Black card. If a Philistine is removed from battle, you may add a Philistine to battle (Limit once per turn). Cannot be negated.

[Watchman]

Search deck or Reserve for a Philistine giant or a black weapon. If blocking, negate characters (except Philistines and Giant-Slayers) and non-weapon class Enhancements in battle. Cannot be prevented by an O.T. card.

Some of the submissions have correctly specified “Philistine giant” while others just say “giant.” The scriptures that talks about the sons of “the giant” (Rapha) are all specific to Philly giants. There were other giants who were not Phillies, such as Og, king of Bashan and the descendants of Anak (the Anakim), both of whom were Canaanites and not Philistines. In the event that these other giants are made in the future, I strongly suggest that whatever special ability is decided on with Rapha (such as searching out a giant) that the ability specifies Philistine giant and not just “giant.”

[TheHobbit13]

It just cuts down on the word count and practically all giants are philistines anyways. Having the card work with Canaanite giants
isn't major, thematically it works too because Canaanites are also black in Redemption. Sometimes realism has to take a back seat to pragmatism; either way, I am pretty this card is driving.

[EmJayBee83]

So here's the deal...Rapha, the Father of Giants will be in the black brigade and will be Warrior Class. There's no sense is spending time on a vote for those things. 

Shucks.  I was hoping for an option that would make the Kings version of the Giants useful again. Something where Rapha could be Black/Gold/Crimson/Gray.

[jesse]

I agree with Noah that Philistine Giants need help vs. AotL. Plus, an add-to-battle/battle-extender ability also fits thematically with Rapha being a father - "sending forth" his sons from territory. Finally, they also need drawing, Reserve access, and initiative. I just don't know how to fit it all on 1 card! Perhaps the numbers should be low so Rapha could be an initiative option and wouldn't always sit in territory?

Territory Class

"If a Philistine is removed from battle, you may add a Giant to battle. When your Giant enters battle, you may draw 1 or search Reserve for an evil card. Cannot be interrupted."

Maybe 1/5 or 5/1 numbers (due to 5 sons)?

EDIT NOTE: I added "you may" to the SA, as there was room for it

[EmJayBee83]

Rapha, Father of Giants   10/12

Territory Class

No opponent may access his reserve. All spears gain the abilities "Play the first enhancement. Toss all non-weapon class enhancements played in this battle" when placed on a giant. Cannot be negated by a good card.

[Gabe]

Travis described very well here that Rapha, Father of Giants is the patriarchal father of the giants of this time period, including Og, King of Basha a Canaanite. Having descendants that reside in a Nation later in your lineage does not make you of that same lineage.

TLDR; Rapha has descendants who are Philistine but is not Philistine himself.

[NathanW]

We should have done a second vote between the top 2... If people knew Rapha wasn't going to have the Philistine identifier they might want to vote for another candidate.

Edit: just my 2c

[TheHobbit13]

Yeah, just make him philistine. I don't think anyone really cares.

[Gabe]

If people knew Rapha wasn't going to have the Philistine identifier they might want to vote for another candidate.

I understand where the idea comes from that he might be Philistine, or even Canaanite, but Travis shared his findings long before the vote took place. I'm sorry if someone still presumed that he would be Philistine and that greatly influenced their vote. I hadn't seen a large push to add that identifier prior to now or I would have pointed it out sooner.

Yeah, just make him philistine. I don't think anyone really cares.

We attempt to make this game as accurate as possible given what we know. To add an identifier because "we want it" is simply not that way we do things. We cannot set that kind of precedent.

Part of the process of allowing the community to make a card is to take you all through the same (sometimes painful) processes that we have to go through to get a card in it's final form. This is a great opportunity for everyone to see what that looks like.

[ChristianSoldier]

Rapha Father of Giants 9/12, WC, TC
X = Number of Philistine Giants in play
Special Ability: When this character enters play search your deck or reserve for a Philistine Giant. Each Philistine Giant is increased by X/X. Negate play abilities. If a Giant is in battle, the first good enhancement played in battle is Tossed. Cannot be Negated if Gath is in play.

I would want the increase ability to be an ongoing one, so that the Giants are only increased while he's in play, so my wording might be a bit off. I wanted the ability because I like the idea of Giants being Giant, while still keeping to the 12/12 being the max printed number.
I didn't max out his offense because he was never active during the Bible (except as the father of active giants) it also gives a good reason for him to be territory class. I added the CBN part because 2 Samuel 21:22 mentions how the 4 giants in the chapter were from Gath and I thought it would be cool to boost it if Gath was in play (plus it gives a reason to print Gath as a site or fort)
I could probably do without the search, but I think it fits for him to pull out a Philistine Giant.
Negating play abilities is mostly to prevent toss + Philistine Chariot and Horses, plus it would make using him an interesting choice, do you want the Philistine Chariot and Horses or do you want Rapha, and it would still be brutal with the Giant's Spears from the I deck.
Toss is an interesting ability, it would make the Giant's Spears brutal (as I mentioned before) plus it would be interesting in combination with the Giant's lack of initiative by forcing them to burn an enhancement first and depending on the situation pass initiative.

[Red]

Rapha, Father of Giants.
10/12 WC TC
Search deck or Reserve for a Giant. All Giants increase 3/3 while Rapha is in play. When one blocks, search deck for a black brigade enhancement. Cannot be Prevented.

I wanted a monster of a boost for giants (Philistines) This version of Rapha isn't culturally bound and turns black giants into a negate factory. He also continues the searching theme of black on defense, as well as makes giants more giant.

[Josh]

I agree with Noah that Philistine Giants need help vs. AotL. Plus, an add-to-battle/battle-extender ability also fits thematically with Rapha being a father - "sending forth" his sons from territory. Finally, they also need drawing, Reserve access, and initiative.

I actually would prefer that different themes have strengths and weaknesses.  If every theme has the same suite of utility cards and abilities, the tiebreaker comes down to the raw power characters - the characters that can win battles or games on their own if left unchecked.  And in that regard, Philistines are way ahead of almost all other defensive themes.  If they get a character that grants ongoing drawing as well as AotL evasion to other giants, that's going to take the Goliath/12FG/Saph/PAB core and make it...  Who knows how strong.  Maybe meta-twisting.

[Gabe]

To help people monitor the length of the SA I've written the following which uses the maximum space we have available in the text box.

"When you write a special ability it will need to be no longer than this block of text. If you use things like Enhancement or opponents, they can cause text to cut off a row early which shortens the SA."

If your special ability is longer than that it cannot be used without modifications to shorten it.

[CountFount]

Territory Class

Negate Artifacts. Discard Reserves. Once per game, Owner may shuffle everything of all players except redeemed souls and discard piles back into draw pile, draw eight and start a new turn. Cannot be negated.