Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I've seen a few ideas for territory-class characters in the gallery submissions thread, and I'm wondering what the rules are for this unofficial card type. Is it that the entire ability activates both when it's played and when it enters battle unless stated otherwise? (And in the case of ongoing abilities, the ability remains active regardless of entry into/exit from battle until a phase change after the character has been discarded?)

IMHO, territory-class characters would be terrible for the game.  I thought the idea was to promote more battles?  If territory-class characters are able to activate special abilities during the prep phase, more strategic setup will be done at that time.  Players won't battle unless they have activated all their meta-counters in previous phases, so that they know they are guaranteed to win the battle.  B-O-R-I-N-G.

Oh, and yeah, it would promote speed.  Reason enough to nix the idea.   

There has been a little discussion of TC characters among the playtesters, and while we are wary of the possibilities, the most likely scenario if they ever come to be is that they would become the standard for characters with abilities that last while in play (like Esther, Judas, Aaron, etc.), much like TC enhancements became the standard for placed enhancements. I personally like games that involve more strategic setup. I think if done right, TC characters would be an interesting addition, but I don't think they'll be made anytime too soon.

Quote from: STAMP on February 02, 2012, 05:09:55 PM

IMHO, territory-class characters would be terrible for the game.  I thought the idea was to promote more battles?  If territory-class characters are able to activate special abilities during the prep phase, more strategic setup will be done at that time.  Players won't battle unless they have activated all their meta-counters in previous phases, so that they know they are guaranteed to win the battle.  B-O-R-I-N-G.

Oh, and yeah, it would promote speed.  Reason enough to nix the idea.   

There has been a little discussion of TC characters among the playtesters, and while we are wary of the possibilities, the most likely scenario if they ever come to be is that they would become the standard for characters with abilities that last while in play (like Esther, Judas, Aaron, etc.), much like TC enhancements became the standard for placed enhancements. I personally like games that involve more strategic setup. I think if done right, TC characters would be an interesting addition, but I don't think they'll be made anytime too soon.

But we're all human.  Adding another layer of complexity increases the chances of another TGT, SitC, Thaddeus,...or dare I say, ANB.  You KNOW a broken card will be released no matter how hard the playtesters test for loopholes.

What you can do during prep phase:

Place a character (cross or dragon icon) into your territory.
Place an artifact, covenant, or curse face down in your artifact pile.
Activate an artifact, covenant, or curse by placing an artifactit face up on your artifact pile (limit once per turn).
Place a site into your territory.
Place a Lost Soul into a site.
Set aside a character.
Return a character from your set-aside area and place it back into your territory.
Place a weapon-class enhancement on a warrior-class character in your territory.
Place a fortress on the table as described on the fortress. At this time its special ability becomes active.
Place or remove a card in a fortress as described on the fortress.
Play a territory-class enhancement.
[Play a territory-class character?]

What you can do during the battle phase:

Start a battle.


You'll scare away all the RLKs and VOGs to go play checkers.  Years ago, I suggested a card type that would stay in the battlefield and only be active during the battle phase.  I partly regret that suggestion, yet I would like THAT more than another prep phase activation.

If I didn't want to play against an opponent, I could always play solitaire.

[/rant]

I think the battle phase is a bit more complicated then "start a battle"...

Quote from: lp670sv on February 02, 2012, 06:33:57 PM

I think the battle phase is a bit more complicated then "start a battle"...

Really??     How so?

Well you are aware that after the battle starts there's a whole series of events involved that follow. Playing enhancements, using character special abilities, both of which do many many different things,  play dominants, sometimes leading to starting a new battle or even a new turn. There's a lot more that goes on in the battle phase that you said. Nice try.

Quote from: lp670sv on February 02, 2012, 06:40:48 PM

Quote from: STAMP on February 02, 2012, 06:35:22 PM

Quote from: lp670sv on February 02, 2012, 06:33:57 PM

I think the battle phase is a bit more complicated then "start a battle"...

Really??     How so?

Well you are aware that after the battle starts there's a whole series of events involved that follow. Playing enhancements, using character special abilities, both of which do many many different things,  play dominants, sometimes leading to starting a new battle or even a new turn. There's a lot more that goes on in the battle phase that you said. Nice try.

Dude.  Really?  C'mon.

You're still in the battle phase? You are doing them IN the battle phase? I don't see how it's so easy for you too list all the thing you do DURING the battle phase and then compare it to only how you START the battle phase. Your argument makes no sense.

If we play the way STAMP thinks we do, then every rescue attempt is successful.

/And I thought he didn't like speed...

If we play the way STAMP thinks we do, then every rescue attempt is successful.

/And I thought he didn't like speed...

Well, I apologize but I don't think about how any of you play.  For some of you that may come as a slight hit to your egos.   

I only know how I play and the players with whom I have played, and the fun factor needle keeps going the opposite way of where the red line is. 

Let me point out something in your argument. It doesn't make sense. According to your argument the only thing that you can do in the battle phase is start it. That's not true and you know it. There is a lot that goes on in the battle phase and most of the game of redemption occurs in the battle phase.

Please list for me ALL the things a player can do during the battle phase IF a battle is not started.

Quote from: SomeKittens on February 02, 2012, 06:52:41 PM

If we play the way STAMP thinks we do, then every rescue attempt is successful.

/And I thought he didn't like speed...

Well, I apologize but I don't think about how any of you play.  For some of you that may come as a slight hit to your egos.   

I only know how I play and the players with whom I have played, and the fun factor needle keeps going the opposite way of where the red line is. 

Quote from: lp670sv on February 02, 2012, 06:56:37 PM

Let me point out something in your argument. It doesn't make sense. According to your argument the only thing that you can do in the battle phase is start it. That's not true and you know it. There is a lot that goes on in the battle phase and most of the game of redemption occurs in the battle phase.

Please list for me ALL the things a player can do during the battle phase IF a battle is not started.

If a battle is not started, there is no battle phase. That does not mean that nothing occurs during the battle phase after you start the battle which is exactly what you said, let me quote it below just so you can see exactly what you said again.

What you can do during the battle phase:

Start a battle.

[/rant]

The battle phase requires the most strategy of any part of the game, it's the only way you can win the game, if you really think that the prep phase is somehow the "main phase" of redemption you are playing the game wrong and I can see why you aren't having any fun.

It frustrates me that a lot of people completely hate the idea of territory class characters for no specific reason beyond disliking the idea. I actually think Pol had an extremely clever idea with his Leviathan card, and it would be a good chance of pace beyond the possibility of the usual "ongoing abilities" use that most people think of.

Back when I first posted my idea for Territory Class Characters (I don't know of any other posted ideas of it at the time) the idea I had in mind was it would only work for continuous abilities.
My original idea was Jezebel
Special Ability: Protect evil characters in your territory from discard if an artifact depicting an idol is in play.  If blocking discard a good prophet in play.

Basically the continuous ability would be active all the time, and the instant ability would only work during battle (I would always have it written just to be clear) but I would want it as a general rule for card design (except maybe on very rare cases in which case it would say when it triggers, such as when coming in play or when a dominant is played or whatever)

I think they would be good for increasing the battle phase (by having characters protected upon entering play or by allowing a CBP evil ability that gets around by the numbers and characters that could negate fortresses or characters without having to enter battle (such as Garden Tomb or Thaddeus)

Yes if done badly we could have another Garden Tomb, Thaddeus or even ANB, but I think (so long as they were done well and used sparingly) we could keep better balance.

I don't see why TC characters could ever be a bad idea.  More complexity and options if done right is a good thing. A very good thing.

That's an incredibly smart way of playing, and Sun Tzu is right.  I think more in Prep than I do in battle.  Most of the time, when I enter battle, I know exactly how it'll play out.  If I can restrict my opponent from making a rescue attempt, my defense is doing it's job.