Cactus Game Design Message Boards

So...  After reading I Samuel, I think David should definitely be one of the best heroes in the game.  Here's my upgraded David, with some other Red cards.

David - 10/3 WC red GC - same verse as old Red one
"Cannot be captured.  Good weapon-class enhancements cannot be negated or discarded.  You may search draw pile or discard pile for a Red enhancement with "David" in the title and add it to battle.  Cannot be negated."

There are a lot of prayers recorded by individuals in the Bible - I think they would make good territory-class enhancements.  It would symbolize the heroes praying for God's help before they enter battle.

Prayer of David - 2/5 TC red GE - II Samuel 5:19
"If used by an OT WC hero, look at all opponents' hands.  You may select one evil card from each and return to top of owners' draw piles.  Negate evil weapon-class enhancements this turn."

Prayer of Joshua - 0/0 TC gold/red GE - Joshua 10:12
"If holder's rescue attempt is not successful, he may make a second one this turn."

Bravery of David - 4/3 red GE - I Samuel 17:45
"Negate immunity and ignore abilities on evil cards.  Protect all Red OT WC heroes not in battle from opponents' cards.  Cannot be negated if an OT Red WC hero is in battle."

The Acts of the Three - 0/0 red GE - II Samuel 23:16
"Reveal the top 3 cards of opponent's deck (or 7 if used by a WC hero from II Samuel 23).  Discard all revealed evil characters.  Take one good enhancement and add to hand.  You may play the next enhancement."

David Spares Saul - 4/0 Red GE - I Samuel 26:12
"If an evil character is in battle, battle immediately ends.  Protect humans from discard this turn.  Return to owners' territories instead.  Cannot be negated."

Repaying Good for Evil - 0/5 red GE - I Samuel 24:17
"Negate the last evil enhancement played.  You may ignore 1 evil brigade in battle or convert a human evil character to a Red brigade hero.  Cannot be interrupted."

David's Men - 2/1 WC red GC - I Samuel 22:2
Generic

I also think a cool unique thing that could be done for Red (since it has so much trouble playing enhancements) is to have character and weapon-class enhancement abilities that use discarding/removing single color Red enhancements with no special ability from hand or battle to do cool things.  And there could be some heroes, and maybe a TC enhancement, that recurred red enhancements with no special ability...  I already have some card ideas for this, but I'll post them later after I come up with some more.  At any rate, I think this could help Red without giving them a Jacob or Ethiopean Treasurer-type character.  Plus it creates a use for unused cards.

What do you think?

Repaying is great if you remove CBI. David's Spares saul = Whats the point of it? You lose the battle?

Like the rest though.

For David Spares Saul, I was trying to make a good version of the Forgotten History type enhancements.  And after reading the story of how it happened, I thought that no humans should be discarded either.  I guess I didn't word it well.  How would you make a card like that?

I'm pretty sure David Spares Saul works as you intended, and I like the idea a lot.

Am I missing something? Or does ending the battle and protecting the human ecs from d/c sorta...Not rescue a lost soul?

I like almost all of these. However, regardless of how bad Red is right now, David is definitely OP. Maybe instead of "You may search draw pile or discard pile for a Red enhancement with David in the title and add it to battle," which is way OP since it's infinite CBN recursion, just choose one of those benefits, like "search deck for a red enhancement with David in the title or scripture verse" or "you may use II Samuel enhancements regardless of brigade" or something like that.

I agree you should remove the CBI from Repaying Good for Evil.

I'm pretty sure David Spares Saul works as you intended, and I like the idea a lot.

David's Men is already sort of a card (David's Mighty Men), but I do kind of like the simple idea, so I would try it with a different character.

David's Men refers to the band of 400 of "outcasts" that were loyal to David when Saul was trying to kill him.  I was going for a hero with no special ability and low numbers - for Passover Preparations abuse.

Quote from: BubbleBoy on January 31, 2010, 10:28:54 PM

I like almost all of these. However, regardless of how bad Red is right now, David is definitely OP. Maybe instead of "You may search draw pile or discard pile for a Red enhancement with David in the title and add it to battle," which is way OP since it's infinite CBN recursion, just choose one of those benefits, like "search deck for a red enhancement with David in the title or scripture verse" or "you may use II Samuel enhancements regardless of brigade" or something like that.

I agree you should remove the CBI from Repaying Good for Evil.

I'm pretty sure David Spares Saul works as you intended, and I like the idea a lot.

David's Men is already sort of a card (David's Mighty Men), but I do kind of like the simple idea, so I would try it with a different character.

David's Men refers to the band of 400 of "outcasts" that were loyal to David when Saul was trying to kill him.  I was going for a hero with no special ability and low numbers - for Passover Preparations abuse.

How about using the men who stayed with the supplies when they went after the raiders?

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 31, 2010, 10:42:48 PM

Quote

I'm pretty sure David Spares Saul works as you intended, and I like the idea a lot.

Am I missing something? Or does ending the battle and protecting the human ecs from d/c sorta...Not rescue a lost soul?

Well, one of us must be missing something, and it's probably me. Does the EC have to die for the Hero to win or something? I mean, if the Hero's offense is higher than the EC's defense, and the battle ends there, the hero wins, right? Does it matter whether the EC actually dies?

Yes sir. If an EC is in battle at the end of a ra, no LS is won.

Even though Red is UP, I still don't want it to get a CBN battle-winner.

But if, with the addition of the 4 strength from David Spares Saul, the hero's strength is higher than the non-immune or ignoring evil character's toughness when the enhancement ends the battle, the evil character would die and the rescue would be a success.

What's the problem?

The problem is that the EC survives. An EC surviving is always a winning situation for the EC, unless it is being ignored or withdrawn.

Rather than saying the EC survives, just return the EC to territory.  It has the same effect, but you win. 

That works.

I might try something like this: "If used by a WC hero, the battle immediately ends. All humans about to be discarded are returned to territory instead." I'd take the CBN off. It's already CBI anyway, and Red has all it's enhancement-sniping and negating (and another CBN enhancement as well).

Cool, I like it. 

So I was thinking about Prayer of David and I think I may have made it OP, at least for Type 2.  Imagine this as a T2 offense:

I Am Holy x3

A bunch of WC red heroes that band
A Soldier's Prayer x5
Prayer of David x5
Warrior's Spear x5

You could effectively return the evil cards in their hand to the top of their deck, then attack with a Red banding chain equipped with Warrior's Spears and discard them all.  Not to mention discard your duplicate heroes with I Am Holy to mess with the evil cards in their hand some more.  I love the idea of a TC enhancement that lets you look at an opponent's hand and put an evil card back on top of their deck, and if there was a card like this, I think it should definitely be Red...  Am I overthinking this?  Would this offense be easy to stop?

So...  After reading I Samuel, I think David should definitely be one of the best heroes in the game.  Here's my upgraded David, with some other Red cards.

David - 10/3 WC red GC - same verse as old Red one
"Cannot be captured.  Good weapon-class enhancements cannot be negated or discarded.  You may search draw pile or discard pile for a Red enhancement with "David" in the title and add it to battle.  Cannot be negated."

There are a lot of prayers recorded by individuals in the Bible - I think they would make good territory-class enhancements.  It would symbolize the heroes praying for God's help before they enter battle.

Prayer of David - 2/5 TC red GE - II Samuel 5:19
"If used by an OT WC hero, look at all opponents' hands.  You may select one evil card from each and return to top of owners' draw piles.  Negate evil weapon-class enhancements this turn."

Prayer of Joshua - 0/0 TC gold/red GE - Joshua 10:12
"If holder's rescue attempt is not successful, he may make a second one this turn."

Bravery of David - 4/3 red GE - I Samuel 17:45
"Negate immunity and ignore abilities on evil cards.  Protect all Red OT WC heroes not in battle from opponents' cards.  Cannot be negated if an OT Red WC hero is in battle."

The Acts of the Three - 0/0 red GE - II Samuel 23:16
"Reveal the top 3 cards of opponent's deck (or 7 if used by a WC hero from II Samuel 23).  Discard all revealed evil characters.  Take one good enhancement and add to hand.  You may play the next enhancement."

David Spares Saul - 4/0 Red GE - I Samuel 26:12
"If an evil character is in battle, battle immediately ends.  Protect humans from discard this turn.  Return to owners' territories instead.  Cannot be negated."

Repaying Good for Evil - 0/5 red GE - I Samuel 24:17
"Negate the last evil enhancement played.  You may ignore 1 evil brigade in battle or convert a human evil character to a Red brigade hero.  Cannot be interrupted."

David's Men - 2/1 WC red GC - I Samuel 22:2
Generic

I also think a cool unique thing that could be done for Red (since it has so much trouble playing enhancements) is to have character and weapon-class enhancement abilities that use discarding/removing single color Red enhancements with no special ability from hand or battle to do cool things.  And there could be some heroes, and maybe a TC enhancement, that recurred red enhancements with no special ability...  I already have some card ideas for this, but I'll post them later after I come up with some more.  At any rate, I think this could help Red without giving them a Jacob or Ethiopean Treasurer-type character.  Plus it creates a use for unused cards.

What do you think?

ugh Red already Powerful

Quote from: hi123 on February 01, 2010, 02:46:28 PM

ugh Red already Powerful

 

Seriously, though, Red is one of the weakest (if not the weakest) brigades in the game.  Yes you could have a huge band that no one can beat by numbers but then you will just give your opponent infinite inish.

Although I wouldn't say it is super powered, Red is strong, it just doesn't have the CBN goodness that most other brigades have.