Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: drb1200 on April 19, 2013, 06:45:40 PM
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SIGNS OF THE END
I'm extremely excited to share this project with you all which has been several months in the making. A ton of work went into making it happen and I'm very thankful to all who helped. Check out the set below!
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Thanks to browarod for providing the majority of the cards in this set.
Thanks to Gabe for proofing the set.
Thanks to Red, Lampy 2.0, asrgimli, Westok Kiok, Master Q, Thomas Hunter, pilgrim14, and Masteri KChief for contributing cards to this set.
Thanks to all the artists whose incredible works contributed to this set.
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My favorite has to be Frog Demons.
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Perhaps an explanation of the rarity system is in order?
These look fantastic. Well done.
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Just taking a guess,
White is uncommon
blue is common
silver is rare
gold is ultra-rare
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Just taking a guess,
White is uncommon
blue is common
silver is rare
gold is ultra-rare
White-Common
Blue-Uncommonn
Silver-Rare
Gold-Ultra Rare
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These are absolutely Awesome!
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The lost soul could fix so many defenses i like
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I wish these were real cards so I could add them to my demon defense. ;)
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X is undefined on Servant Angel.
Love the visual design of these cards! Some really neat abilities, too.
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Props on actually getting this done. Most of them look really good.
However, some are also incredibly broken, and Red Dragon is ugly. This is all my opinion. Except the broken part. There are some way abuseable cards in there.
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and Red Dragon is ugly.
Sadly it's better than 90% of the artwork already in this game.
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Very nice! Maybe Rob will get some ideas from this and release a new set next year based off some of these cards. Keep up the great work. God bless ya.
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I think there would need to be some gender identifiers on several of the angels. The artwork clearly depicts females, but typically angels are assumed to be male (since Kira and Arianna are the only current female angels).
Overall, I am impressed both by the fact that you took this project to completion, and also at the high level of quality which it ended up being. Great job!
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Leaves for Healing was meant to say "Heal up to X of your Heroes and either increase or decrease each by X/X.
AAAND here are the remaining cards!
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Props on actually getting this done. Most of them look really good.
However, some are also incredibly broken, and Red Dragon is ugly. This is all my opinion. Except the broken part. There are some way abuseable cards in there.
For instance after a quick read there's this combo. Play a NT offense deck with TGT with a demon defense. Play Letter to Smynra (can search for it with consider the lilies), throw up A New Covenant in your artifact pile. When they make a rescue attempt at you, block with a revelation demon, play Wrath of Satan (which is now CBN), set your offense aside, search for Smynra Overcomes, immediately discard your offense and rescue Smynra Overcomes (which I actually don't think works because of the rule that you can only rescue humans). Heal your offense with ANC.
You just stopped their rescue, CBN, and rescued a soul and all it requires to do is Letter to Symnra, ANC, Wrath and a Revelation demon. You can even recur Letter with Consider the Lillies and Wrath with Demon behind the idol at this point.
EDIT: I forgot to say that this combo would be ridiculous in type II.
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Also what does "Vulnerable" mean?
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Out side of some of the abusable cards mentioned earlier... what the heck does Wizard actually do? Because in his current state he really does nothing except protect certain cards from Aarons Rod type stuff. I also found it a bit odd whith with some of the "reprints" and how the stats were changed but I digress....
Cards look great but to my eyes its kind of distracting with some of the "dual border" cards because the two colors sometimes dont split evenly down the card.... other then that everything looks great!
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Props on actually getting this done. Most of them look really good.
However, some are also incredibly broken, and Red Dragon is ugly. This is all my opinion. Except the broken part. There are some way abuseable cards in there.
For instance after a quick read there's this combo. Play a NT offense deck with TGT with a demon defense. Play Letter to Smynra (can search for it with consider the lilies), throw up A New Covenant in your artifact pile. When they make a rescue attempt at you, block with a revelation demon, play Wrath of Satan (which is now CBN), set your offense aside, search for Smynra Overcomes, immediately discard your offense and rescue Smynra Overcomes (which I actually don't think works because of the rule that you can only rescue humans). Heal your offense with ANC.
You just stopped their rescue, CBN, and rescued a soul and all it requires to do is Letter to Symnra, ANC, Wrath and a Revelation demon. You can even recur Letter with Consider the Lillies and Wrath with Demon behind the idol at this point.
EDIT: I forgot to say that this combo would be ridiculous in type II.
There's a ton of broken stuff for T2. This is clearly a T1 set. But even then, wayyy too much broken.
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Vulnerable - Cards that are vulnerable to <X> cannot be protected from, immune to, or ignore whatever <X> is. Vulnerable is not a negate nor a protect, it functions similarly to "cannot be ignored" and "regardless" in that it just gets around those abilities.
For instance after a quick read there's this combo. Play a NT offense deck with TGT with a demon defense. Play Letter to Smynra (can search for it with consider the lilies), throw up A New Covenant in your artifact pile. When they make a rescue attempt at you, block with a revelation demon, play Wrath of Satan (which is now CBN), set your offense aside, search for Smynra Overcomes, immediately discard your offense and rescue Smynra Overcomes (which I actually don't think works because of the rule that you can only rescue humans). Heal your offense with ANC.
You just stopped their rescue, CBN, and rescued a soul and all it requires to do is Letter to Symnra, ANC, Wrath and a Revelation demon. You can even recur Letter with Consider the Lillies and Wrath with Demon behind the idol at this point.
EDIT: I forgot to say that this combo would be ridiculous in type II.
If by ridiculous you mean usable twice rather than once, then yes. Smyrna Overcomes is a bi-brigade card so even in T2 it's limited to 2 in a deck. :P
Also, good luck playing Smyrna Overcomes if your offense is set aside. ;)
As far as comments regarding power, we didn't really have a chance to playtest any of them (nor a good way to do so even if we had the time) so there's bound to be combos that didn't immediately come to mind when creating them.
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I can use it 6 times in T2 without even trying hard, so GG.
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Vulnerable - Cards that are vulnerable to <X> cannot be protected from, immune to, or ignore whatever <X> is. Vulnerable is not a negate nor a protect, it functions similarly to "cannot be ignored" and "regardless" in that it just gets around those abilities.
For instance after a quick read there's this combo. Play a NT offense deck with TGT with a demon defense. Play Letter to Smynra (can search for it with consider the lilies), throw up A New Covenant in your artifact pile. When they make a rescue attempt at you, block with a revelation demon, play Wrath of Satan (which is now CBN), set your offense aside, search for Smynra Overcomes, immediately discard your offense and rescue Smynra Overcomes (which I actually don't think works because of the rule that you can only rescue humans). Heal your offense with ANC.
You just stopped their rescue, CBN, and rescued a soul and all it requires to do is Letter to Symnra, ANC, Wrath and a Revelation demon. You can even recur Letter with Consider the Lillies and Wrath with Demon behind the idol at this point.
EDIT: I forgot to say that this combo would be ridiculous in type II.
If by ridiculous you mean usable twice rather than once, then yes. Smyrna Overcomes is a bi-brigade card so even in T2 it's limited to 2 in a deck. :P
Also, good luck playing Smyrna Overcomes if your offense is set aside. ;)
As far as comments regarding power, we didn't really have a chance to playtest any of them (nor a good way to do so even if we had the time) so there's bound to be combos that didn't immediately come to mind when creating them.
Even if you could use it only twice, its still 2 rescued souls that you got by winning a defensive battle. And did you not see the part of the combo, where you kill your offense (which sets it aside), rescue the card, then heal your offense and its all suddenly back. Your offense isn't set aside ever during your turns.
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I can use it 6 times in T2 without even trying hard, so GG.
You can only have 2 of the cards in deck so once you redeem both how exactly would you do it 4 more times?
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I can use it 6 times in T2 without even trying hard, so GG.
You can only have 2 of the cards in deck so once you redeem both how exactly would you do it 4 more times?
You could always use Book of Jashar
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I can use it 6 times in T2 without even trying hard, so GG.
You can only have 2 of the cards in deck so once you redeem both how exactly would you do it 4 more times?
You could always use Book of Jashar
That would require 2 more cards than the original combo called for, BoJ and a blue hero. Also, you'd have to somehow get 7 more Heroes set aside after the first Smyrna Overcomes (as it returns all of them to discard, not just the 7). And even if you could get that far, that's still only twice more, not 4 times more, as you couldn't copy it more than twice (because, again, to copy each card more than once in a turn you'd have to get 7 more Heroes set aside after each BoJ resolves which would be even more difficult than getting 7 more after SO resolved).
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I can use it 6 times in T2 without even trying hard, so GG.
You can only have 2 of the cards in deck so once you redeem both how exactly would you do it 4 more times?
You could always use Book of Jashar
That would require 2 more cards than the original combo called for, BoJ and a blue hero. Also, you'd have to somehow get 7 more Heroes set aside after the first Smyrna Overcomes (as it returns all of them to discard, not just the 7). And even if you could get that far, that's still only twice more, not 4 times more, as you couldn't copy it more than twice (because, again, to copy each card more than once in a turn you'd have to get 7 more Heroes set aside after each BoJ resolves which would be even more difficult than getting 7 more after SO resolved).
I think you're missing the point. Rescuing even 1 soul, by winning a defensive battle at relatively no cost, with a combo that can easily be searched out is not good.
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Woah. This set is even more OP than the last one.
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I think you're missing the point. Rescuing even 1 soul, by winning a defensive battle at relatively no cost, with a combo that can easily be searched out is not good.
You're right, wining a defensive battle is evil not good. ;)
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Woah. This set is even more OP than the last one.
Which "last one" are you referring to?
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Woah. This set is even more OP than the last one.
Which "last one" are you referring to?
I assume FooF/RoA 2
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I thought he was referring to the combo...
*EDIT... I can read english...
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I thought he was referring to the combo...
He said this set, so I dunno how that would refer to the combo.
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Just reiterating here what I said last page, we didn't have time to do playtesting (we were coming up with last minute card ideas right up until the release last Friday) so there's bound to be some cards that have too much power (and probably some with very little), though I think it's decently balanced in general.
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The identifier on Servant Angel should be: X=# of your Redeemed Souls. And I would have to agree that while the cards look awesome, some of them seem way OP.
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anyone notice angel of revelations can discard heroes? does this seem wrong to anyone else that an angel can kill a believer?
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Just reiterating here what I said last page, we didn't have time to do playtesting (we were coming up with last minute card ideas right up until the release last Friday) so there's bound to be some cards that have too much power (and probably some with very little), though I think it's decently balanced in general.
Thank you. Everyone keep this in mind.
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Just reiterating here what I said last page, we didn't have time to do playtesting (we were coming up with last minute card ideas right up until the release last Friday) so there's bound to be some cards that have too much power (and probably some with very little), though I think it's decently balanced in general.
I don't understand the "rush" to get the cards out. Lack of playtesting and review resulting in broken cards should be avoided at all costs, including timeliness; otherwise, I don't see the purpose in the expansion.
As of right now, this is a group of cards with (primarily) Revelations references that have been put to (awesome) art via Daniel's skills. I guess I was thinking it would be a step beyond the normal "post card ideas on the New Card Ideas board for criticism" to "we've created these cards, and they've been proofed as to eliminated brokenness; we present them as Redemption-ready, for the betterment of the game".
There's no doubt some of these cards are (in all aspects of the word) "good" as Redemption cards, and most are very creative as well. So props on that. Are they to be critiqued further at this point?
My observations:
Silver heroes should not share other brigades. There have been plenty of silver prophets that were not also printed green.
Ancient Evil can recur good enhancements.
Angel of Might is Thaddeus-lite without CBI. Of course, this goes away if he is mono-silver.
Angel of Revelation can discard a hero.
The lack of CBP/CBN on the evil characters means that most will never use their special abilities.
King's Sword is sickly OP. Way too powerful. Somewhat like playing AoCP as a TC enhancement, that hits through protection, but does not hit your own ECs.
Long-Suffering of John turns Grapes into a battlewinner on any purple hero, including Mephibosheth, as long as they are blocked by more than one EC.
Nero's Realm can give Thaddeus-like protection to NT Evil Characters in battle. The difference is, it is only stopped by cards that negate sites. And CP can protect Nero's Realm.
Prince of Tyrus should be Black, not Brown. He is a Canaanite.
Fallen's defense of X can be zero, and will actually be zero quite often. Usually X (for defense) is defined in a way that can never fall below 1, except for decrease abilities of other cards.
I don't think demons will be reprinted anymore with weapon-class as an identifier.
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Some of the communities expectations and what the creator(s) were going for are different. When I was "proofing" these cards all I had time to do was fix incorrect wording on the special abilities. What you see here is essentially a first draft.
I always find it interesting how people think they can tell the power of a card simply by looking at it. In my last few years of play testing experience, I've found that actual playing with the cards often turns up different results than what was originally expected. This holds true for the comments I've seen by all the other play testers as well as my own expectations. Cards don't always work the same in practice as they do in theory. If that holds true for some of the games most experienced players, how much more so for the average player?
This is a beta set. The cards are untested and should be viewed that way. Unless people are actually testing them, comments about their power level don't have much value.
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I agree with what you are saying generally, but there's definitely some level of power that obvious via text without testing. Profanation + Wrath is absurdly good. Letter to Smyrna is absurdly good. It's just obvious.
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I don't understand the "rush" to get the cards out. Lack of playtesting and review resulting in broken cards should be avoided at all costs, including timeliness; otherwise, I don't see the purpose in the expansion.
Daniel was the kingpin for the set and he picked a release date. I can't speak for anyone else, but as a grateful participant I was more than willing to abide by his deadline to the best of my ability. I'm not perfect, though, and with all the cards I myself created (only one of which shows up on your list of corrections, though Smyrna Conquers was on debate earlier, so that makes me feel a little better :P ) I didn't have much time to check other cards for balance, mostly just grammatical and wording fixes.
As of right now, this is a group of cards with (primarily) Revelations references that have been put to (awesome) art via Daniel's skills. I guess I was thinking it would be a step beyond the normal "post card ideas on the New Card Ideas board for criticism" to "we've created these cards, and they've been proofed as to eliminated brokenness; we present them as Redemption-ready, for the betterment of the game".
That was generally the idea and while some proofing was done it wasn't the months and months (if not years) that the PTB has for each new set, nor did we get any actual playtesting done. Proofing cards in a vacuum is never as efficient as being able to play even 1 test game with them. (instaposted by Gabe)
There's no doubt some of these cards are (in all aspects of the word) "good" as Redemption cards, and most are very creative as well. So props on that. Are they to be critiqued further at this point?
By all means please do so. For me, I'm always willing to hear critiques of my work as I endeavor to better myself, and I'm sure the other card makers would also benefit from having more opinions on their cards (so that they can grow as creators as well). :)
Also, iirc, there was a hope at one point to turn this into an RTS expansion (not sure if that's still a goal) so any playtesting, proofing, balancing, etc. people want to do would only make that goal more attainable overall.
I agree with what you are saying generally, but there's definitely some level of power that obvious via text without testing. Profanation + Wrath is absurdly good. Letter to Smyrna is absurdly good. It's just obvious.
What seems obvious now turns out to be not so obvious when you consider the format in which we were creating these cards. We were using a collaborative Google spreadsheet with separate pages for reprints (such as Wrath) and new cards (such as Profanation). As such, even though you could read over all cards of one sort at a glance, there was still another whole page of other cards as well and that made it difficult to carry over thoughts between them. I created both Profanation (which is supposed to be a False Prophet support card) and the Wrath reprint (which was literally supposed to be an orange reprint with a slightly beefed up special ability) and I didn't even notice the interaction right away. In hindsight I'm not sure how I missed it, but I did and that's that. Nowhere to go from here but up. :P
That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. ;)
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I agree with what you are saying generally, but there's definitely some level of power that obvious via text without testing.
As mentioned before, Laodicea overcomes + AoCP? Pergamum Overcomes has the same ability (pretty sure that's a misprint, though.)
Letter to Philadelphia and Philadelphia Overcomes are both incredibly powerful. Protect all my NT heroes from the first EE played each battle or turn NJ into a second SoG? Yes, please.
As much as I want magicians to be powerful, Necromancer is just too much. Recurring ECs is next to impossible for a reason.
Angel of Revelation should have some kind of cost on it.
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I think the cards look great. Nice job everyone.
I did notice a few "proofing" errors (some cards without X defined, various spelling and grammar errors, etc.), but I wouldn't be worried about the power level of most of them at all. The only card that I immediately thought of right away that would be broken is Nero's Realm. I also don't really like the idea of anything other than Lost Souls and captured characters being rescuable, but if done right, I could be ok with it. There are others that probably need fixing, but NR was the only one that I instantly thought of as being OP.
Most of all I like the card design. It has the classic Redemption feel with the added bonus of being able to see the full artwork. I don't like how some of the cards have the SA's and verses run into each other, but that may be unavoidable.
I also agree that there probably won't be any dual-brigade Angels anytime soon; that idea has been brought up many times in NCI and the playtesters' side, but overall the consensus is that Angels are always going to be mono-silver.
It would be cool if someone could make this an RTS expansion file (if the errors get cleaned up a bit). I would be willing to assist in that, but I haven't used the CEC in years (if that's even what is used anymore?). Then people could actually see what cards are broked and what cards aren't.
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Fallen's defense of X can be zero, and will actually be zero quite often. Usually X (for defense) is defined in a way that can never fall below 1, except for decrease abilities of other cards.
I was the one to come up with this card, and I'm fairly new to making cards. My intention was that it would be able to count itself as an enhancement in battle so it would always be at least 1, but if the identifier cannot look at itself for that, then yes, I suppose it would be 0 if it's the first enhancement played. I thought it would be able to count itself kind of like Angel with the Secret Name is able to. Anyways, that was the idea and the intention of the card.
I am also with browarod on this. I am an extremely grateful participant in this project. Even though I am new to making cards, it was fun to be able to come up with ideas and see what others came up with as well. There are several card ideas that people came up with that I'm sad to see didn't make the cut into the final part, and I hope that they are able to be printed at some point. Overall, this was a very fun project and I would be more than willing to join in any similar projects in the future. Thanks for letting me be a part of the fun Daniel!
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I'm also curious how Fallen's defense will be zero 'quite often.' As far as I know, it will always count itself.
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As much as I want magicians to be powerful, Necromancer is just too much. Recurring ECs is next to impossible for a reason.
Although it was not my card, I still like the idea of Necromancer. If keeping the evil characters is too powerful, then how about "Search discard pile for a N.T. Evil Character or Demon and band it into battle. After the battle, remove it from the game regardless of protection."? This allows Necromancer to pull an evil character out of the discard pile, but it's a one time thing. Or a more powerful version of that would be "Search a discard pile", letting you steal your opponent's characters and then removing them from the game. Would work really well with The False Prophet. Just a thought.
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Letter to Philadelphia and Philadelphia Overcomes are both incredibly powerful. Protect all my NT heroes from the first EE played each battle or turn NJ into a second SoG? Yes, please.
BTW, Letter to Philadelphia protects from the first evil ability, therefore it will typically only protect from the EC.
Overall I'm pretty impressed with the Artwork and effort put into this, so great job Daniel and team. As aforementioned by many I did spot a few errors and OPness that I'm sure can be fixed with some play-testing which I'd gladly participate in.
Also, I really like the border-less Angel of Revelation. ;)
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BTW, Letter to Philadelphia protects from the first evil ability, therefore it will typically only protect from the EC.
Only if the EC's ability targets the hero, which many don't.
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As much as I want magicians to be powerful, Necromancer is just too much. Recurring ECs is next to impossible for a reason.
How is necromancer so powerful in the first place you get like what one or two uses out of him. His ability is powerful but in know way helps him win. He might as well as that battle is concerned be going in without an ability. And how is give a def a super powerful card a bad thing. I though more def needed that.
As others have said all new card ideas are new card ideas we need to come from the perspective that they are not done deals.
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BTW, Letter to Philadelphia protects from the first evil ability, therefore it will typically only protect from the EC.
Only if the EC's ability targets the hero, which many don't.
Actually, Koala is right. Even if the EC ability doesn't target the Hero, the protection still is only there for the first evil special ability (which will, generally, be the EC) regardless of whether it targets them or not.
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Wow. These cards have sparked quite a controversy.
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In my opinion some of the cards are good and others seem to be a reprint of their current card with different art and Brigade. I would like to see more stuff like this. My thought are that there should be a little more variety in the future ones, ex. this set was mainly Angels and Demon (I know Revelations deal with them a lot)
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I'm also curious how Fallen's defense will be zero 'quite often.' As far as I know, it will always count itself.
I mistakenly thought Fallen was an EC, not an EE. So yes, X will almost always not be zero; but it doesn't really matter anyways, as it would if it was an EC.
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I like all the magicians, especially false prophet. Magicians are a rising power right now, and they need more cards.
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there should be a little more variety in the future ones, ex. this set was mainly Angels and Demon (I know Revelations deal with them a lot)
Correction: Revelation deals almost exclusively with angels and demons.
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there should be a little more variety in the future ones, ex. this set was mainly Angels and Demon (I know Revelations deal with them a lot)
Correction: Revelation deals almost exclusively with angels and demons.
Except for the few cool magicians. But yes, a book on visions of the spiritual world won't include many humans.
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Wow the artwork on these are really cool, how did you do it?
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Wow the artwork on these are really cool, how did you do it?
I have a huge folder on my desktop full of great biblical artwork. Some of it is Goodsalt artwork and others is just random stuff.
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Some glaring wording errors and insane power levels, but by far the most visually appealing cards I've ever seen!
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I would LOVE to see this set get made into a large special expansion set. Not even joking, I would build a deck focused around these cards just like I made a deck focused around panic demons.
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Angel of Revelation should be fixed to say "Evil NT human" as we do not want to have Heroes who can discard other Heroes.
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Angel of Revelation should be fixed to say "Evil NT human" as we do not want to have Heroes who can discard other Heroes.
Good eye. We don't want him having his special ability being auto-negated without even being converted. :P
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It would be funny if a Hero could discard another Hero. It's like Angel of Revelation is saying 'No you were bad go sit in a corner!'
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love Angel of Might and Angel of Revelation. And the Luke 15:4 Lost Soul....very nice! Those are my three favorites out of the bunch...But overall they are all wicked sweet!
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These are new cards that will be coming out? Cause if so they are amazing!
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These are new cards that will be coming out? Cause if so they are amazing!
No, this subforum is just for custom cards created by players. Every once in a while Cactus will use an idea posted here, but that doesn't happen very often.
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:o
I don't understand why they wouldn't! The concept and the cards are great. Best ideas come from those who play.
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:o
I don't understand why they wouldn't! The concept and the cards are great. Best ideas come from those who play.
They do. It's just that is a relatively small group of players that makes cards.
To quantify Lambo's statement, I think only one card from the community was ever actually printed (Scribe).