Author Topic: Redemption Redesign Project (Complete Closed)  (Read 30877 times)

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #150 on: October 15, 2012, 01:29:18 PM »
0
Wow! That Astrologers is mad cool! These are just getting better and better by degrees!
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #151 on: October 15, 2012, 03:07:47 PM »
+3
While I like the redesign and art, we need to remember that this is a christian card game. The art seems to be like that of Magic and Yugioh which Mr. Rob saw as dark if you have read the background of the game. Yet, I do agree that some cards need a major art improvement we need to stay away from the dark arts.

No pun intended on that last sentence.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 03:58:55 PM by Arrthoa »

Offline New Raven BR

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #152 on: October 15, 2012, 03:11:10 PM »
0
Yet, I do agree that some cards need a major art improvement we need to stay away from the dark arts.

That last part was not a pun, if anyone thought it was.
in this case you should say "no pun intended"  ;)
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #153 on: October 15, 2012, 03:51:10 PM »
-2
Here's my take on an identifier symbol system.



So we have...

a pair of binoculars and a star? I'm guessing the star means magician, but I have no idea what the other icon means.

This is why I feel written identifiers are probably better for the game.

Hey Lambo, when you were picking out the new EE/EC/Hero icons did you just google "Prison tattoos"? 'Cuz that's what they make me think of :P

No, lol. I searched for black and white images that would translate well into line art.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 03:53:25 PM by Lamborghini_diablo »

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #154 on: October 15, 2012, 04:26:07 PM »
0
I'm guessing those are pillars or something to denote Babylonian. It honestly doesn't matter what they are if they're just for memory and reference.

Daniel, I would be curious to see a Moses redesign with all of his identifiers.
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Offline dermo4christ

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #155 on: October 15, 2012, 04:36:43 PM »
0
While I like the redesign and art, we need to remember that this is a christian card game. The art seems to be like that of Magic and Yugioh which Mr. Rob saw as dark if you have read the background of the game. Yet, I do agree that some cards need a major art improvement we need to stay away from the dark arts.

No pun intended on that last sentence.

I agree.  Although, the art on the new Astrologer design represents the type of person they were and what they practiced.  But I do understand what you are saying as a former magic player myself. 

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #156 on: October 15, 2012, 04:41:00 PM »
0
While I like the redesign and art, we need to remember that this is a christian card game. The art seems to be like that of Magic and Yugioh which Mr. Rob saw as dark if you have read the background of the game. Yet, I do agree that some cards need a major art improvement we need to stay away from the dark arts.

No pun intended on that last sentence.

I agree.  Although, the art on the new Astrologer design represents the type of person they were and what they practiced.  But I do understand what you are saying as a former magic player myself.

I'm pretty sure astrologers back then didn't have claws on their hands.   ;)

Offline dermo4christ

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #157 on: October 15, 2012, 04:56:20 PM »
0
While I like the redesign and art, we need to remember that this is a christian card game. The art seems to be like that of Magic and Yugioh which Mr. Rob saw as dark if you have read the background of the game. Yet, I do agree that some cards need a major art improvement we need to stay away from the dark arts.

No pun intended on that last sentence.

I agree.  Although, the art on the new Astrologer design represents the type of person they were and what they practiced.  But I do understand what you are saying as a former magic player myself.

I'm pretty sure astrologers back then didn't have claws on their hands.   ;)

LOL! *sigh* I meant the evil behind their practice....

Warrior_Monk

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #158 on: October 15, 2012, 05:16:19 PM »
+1
The astrologer's art is too dark, but Doeg's Slaughter, Put to Flight, King of Tyrus, Woman in the Ephah, Whore of Babylon, Jezebel, Abijah, son of Samuel, and all the other cards in Sauce's offensive deck is just fine?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 06:02:42 PM by Westy »

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #159 on: October 15, 2012, 05:26:48 PM »
0
While I like the redesign and art, we need to remember that this is a christian card game. The art seems to be like that of Magic and Yugioh which Mr. Rob saw as dark if you have read the background of the game. Yet, I do agree that some cards need a major art improvement we need to stay away from the dark arts.

No pun intended on that last sentence.

I agree.  Although, the art on the new Astrologer design represents the type of person they were and what they practiced.  But I do understand what you are saying as a former magic player myself.

I'm pretty sure astrologers back then didn't have claws on their hands.   ;)

Because claws are a modern discovery? ::)
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Offline dermo4christ

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #160 on: October 15, 2012, 05:55:58 PM »
0
While I like the redesign and art, we need to remember that this is a christian card game. The art seems to be like that of Magic and Yugioh which Mr. Rob saw as dark if you have read the background of the game. Yet, I do agree that some cards need a major art improvement we need to stay away from the dark arts.

No pun intended on that last sentence.


I agree.  Although, the art on the new Astrologer design represents the type of person they were and what they practiced.  But I do understand what you are saying as a former magic player myself.

I'm pretty sure astrologers back then didn't have claws on their hands.   ;)

Because claws are a modern discovery? ::)

heh, heh!

Offline SignoftheStar

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #161 on: November 13, 2012, 09:43:35 PM »
+2
For the record, this card design is quite honestly one of the single most amazing things I have ever seen in my entire life.
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Offline NormireX

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #162 on: November 17, 2012, 04:26:43 AM »
+4
@Daniel Love the redesigns! I think if the cards actually looked like that more non-believers might take a chance and try the game. Honestly the current design is not all that pleasing on the eyes. If you laid a MTG card and a Redemption card out and asked someone which game they would rather play, MTG would win every single time. Lay Daniel's redesign out and there is a better chance more people would gravitate towards Redemption.

I understand some like the old design, but this game shouldn't just be for Christians, it should also be used as a tool to reach the lost. Fancier looking cards are one way to do this. I'm tired of Christian products(excluding some movies and music) being sub-par.  The gaming market is one that Christianity has just not been able to break in to very well. The movies are doing better now than 10 years ago and so is the music scene. Heck Haste the Day and The Devil Wears Prada are extremely popular (RIP HTD). I'm happy to say that the Christian metal scene is doing well in both Christian and secular crowds.

Anyway if Redemption wants to remain relevant and reach out to the lost we need the product to look visually pleasing. The gameplay is pretty good, though I would just make it so Lost Souls always start in the land of bondage rather than being drawn from the deck. This would put both players on equal footing right at the start of the game where as the current rules favor the player that doesn't happen to draw Lost Souls all that much where as the other play could have several out before the other player gets 1 put out. Could also speed the game up as well.  But I digress........

Awesome job Daniel! And Lambo your redesigns are pretty good as well, but lets be honest Daniel's are flashier and would be best for marketing and getting secular crowds into the game. If we were to just think of ourselves(the Christian gaming community) then Lambo's would be just fine with me, but I think we need to look at the bigger picture here.

Also those complaining about the "darker" images on Danie's redesigns, the world is a dark place. Evil cards should look......Evil. Christianity isn't all Lolipops and Candy Canes. Lets be real, and not blind ourselves with what people think Christianity should be.

Also we need a new Redemption video game. Victory at Hebron was fun, but again we need something with good graphics and again I look to Daniel's redesigns, they might work really well for a new Redemption F2P online CCG.

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #163 on: November 17, 2012, 11:14:00 AM »
0
@Luxumbra - Wow! That's quite a compliment. I really appreciate it  :)

@NormireX - Thanks for the kind words! I've always thought MTG had a very well designed card and Redemption's design was not even as attractive as the old MTG style. I also agree with you on tweaking the game's rules, like having Lost Souls start out in the territory. As for dark artwork, I COMPLETELY agree that people don't realize how dark the bible can be at times, and this fact has been covered up by the whole bible being billed as "inspirational" and "bright." Granted, much of the bible is both inspirational and bright, but we mustn't forget some of the other aspects of the holy book.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #164 on: November 17, 2012, 11:52:08 AM »
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Agree with above except LS's starting in territory. There is way too much of the game tied up in them being decked like normal, and speeding it up is a bad thing (the #1 complaint about the game is that it's too speedy).
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #165 on: November 17, 2012, 06:11:02 PM »
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Soul drought is also one of the biggest things wrong with this game. The only win condition contingent upon your opponent drawing it is pretty asinine. -_-
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #166 on: November 17, 2012, 11:43:53 PM »
-3
That argument stopped holding water a little while ago. If you're not able to generate 4+ souls yourself, your'e doin' it wrong.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #167 on: November 18, 2012, 04:55:14 AM »
+2
So not only is a person apparently required to add in additional cards to even 'generate' a win condition (lulz), there is also the dependency of drawing into those answers in the first place.

Yes, clearly impeccable game design.
"If it weren't for people with bad decision making skills, I'd have to get a real job." - Reynad

Offline NormireX

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #168 on: November 18, 2012, 06:25:10 AM »
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That argument stopped holding water a little while ago. If you're not able to generate 4+ souls yourself, your'e doin' it wrong.

Because your deck is always perfectly shuffled???

I understand there may be some cards that have an effect when a LS is drawn or possibly some that have some search deck feature for LS's. Perhaps we need some gameplay re-design as well.

I honestly don't think the game would be too quick if all LS's were on the table to begin with.

My point was more about the game being fair to each player and more balanced. Again, there is more chance of one person drawing more LS's than the other early  in the game and thus giving the other player an advantage of winning.

Perhaps to balance things we need an additional way to win the game other than collecting lost souls. Maybe we need a new card type, like some character type card or something that can be attacked. Something with high HP and maybe make it a good character and give Evil cards more action other than blocking. Doing so would allow Good and Evil cards the ability to "attack" and "block". Killing the "super character" could win you the game or collecting lost souls could win you the game. Or maybe allow evil characters to directly attack good characters that are in play. Then obviously if one player ran out of good characters they would have no way of winning the game. So that might be a better idea.

Also the whole "battle challenge" thing should just be dropped completley. There is no point to it at all. No strategic advantage to it at all really. Why waste a good or evil char that you could use for a block or rescue attempt? I guess if Battle Challenges could not be turned down then that would also address the suggestion I posted in the paragraph above this one.

Anywho, just throwing idea's out there.....

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #169 on: November 18, 2012, 07:32:49 AM »
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An extra win condition would make things interesting, although I was thinking more in line with an actual card effect rather than a game mechanic. Something stupid crazy like collecting pieces of something or accumulating counters of some sort to win the game. Probably not Tier 1 material, but it would make games interesting nonetheless.
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Offline Red

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #170 on: November 18, 2012, 09:29:22 AM »
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NomireX if you haven't figured out any reasons to battle challenge then i've no clue what to say. A battle challenge is actually quite strategic.
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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #171 on: November 18, 2012, 02:12:27 PM »
+1
Haste the Day was mentioned in this thread. I am so totally joining this conversation even though it has nothing to do with HTD.

An alternate win strategy would be great, but I this point I really don't think soul drought is an issue except in Sealed and Booster, mostly because the vast majority of the meta plays speed with at least 3* ways to generate souls (which they will get fairly quickly), and on top of that their opponent is probably drawing enough to continually supply them. A soul drought defense is one of the most common defenses though (Hormah, Burial, and DoU, with N.T., Female, etc.), and I think that's perfectly fine and we shouldn't punish the defense to help out offenses. I really don't think we should help offenses at all right now.

*Mayhem, Hopper, Ammy Slave, Assyrian Survivor, Cupbearer, King Jehoahaz, not to mention Samaritan Water Jar...you get the point.
NomireX if you haven't figured out any reasons to battle challenge then i've no clue what to say. A battle challenge is actually quite strategic.
Eh. Most of the time it's not strategic, but it certainly can be. A lot of times it's just whether you want to draw cards and potentially get souls or not. It's a coin flip, not strategic. Although, I entirely disagree that they should be dropped. They have won and lost me many games (like when Gabe battle challenged me with Susanna and grabbed the 2 Liner at 2010 Nats so I couldn't get to 5. Most frustrating game ever...).

Offline NormireX

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #172 on: November 18, 2012, 03:26:02 PM »
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NomireX if you haven't figured out any reasons to battle challenge then i've no clue what to say. A battle challenge is actually quite strategic.

Please explain the advantage of a battle challenge....... just from reading the rules about it I see no advantage or use for it as the opponent does not have to accept it. The only possible thing it might be used for is activating abilities on a card, if that is indeed how it works.

And if I read the rules correctly it seems a good character is the only one that can initiate the challenge.....is that correct?

Perhaps I read things incorrectly?

@Master KChief, Yeah collecting stuff might be one way to do it. I just think we need a way to use Evil cards in an offensive way. I still like the idea of using evil characters to directly attack good characters and maybe win the game by defeating so many good characters in that fashion. It is like a Battle Challenge in a way I guess except the opponent can't turn it down.

Offline Westok Kiok

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #173 on: November 18, 2012, 03:32:39 PM »
0
   
NomireX if you haven't figured out any reasons to battle challenge then i've no clue what to say. A battle challenge is actually quite strategic.

I also do not see much use in battle challenges. Sure, you can activate an ability. But my point is that typically, when a battle challenge would benefit you, your opponent would not accept. I have never accepted a battle challenge. It doesn't have advantages defensively. I have not played any good competition, but I haven't seen anyone take advantage of a battle challenge.

   This coming from my little knowledge and experience...  ;). Weston
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Offline NormireX

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Re: Redemption Redesign Project
« Reply #174 on: November 18, 2012, 03:40:43 PM »
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NomireX if you haven't figured out any reasons to battle challenge then i've no clue what to say. A battle challenge is actually quite strategic.

I also do not see much use in battle challenges. Sure, you can activate an ability. But my point is that typically, when a battle challenge would benefit you, your opponent would not accept. I have never accepted a battle challenge. It doesn't have advantages defensively. I have not played any good competition, but I haven't seen anyone take advantage of a battle challenge.

   This coming from my little knowledge and experience...  ;). Weston

This is what I was thinking as well Weston.

So back on topic, I think we need to get petition going for the redesigns to become reality. Does the creator of the game ever read these boards?

It would be beneficial to the game and the community if the redesign was implemented asap.

And since the back of the card is not changing all redesigns would be compatible with old cards as well, so no one can complain about that.

I'm not sure they should redesign all of the old cards, but maybe they should start with a new starter deck set and maybe start making Unlimited V.2 boosters with the redesign on them.

Also I think they should put this up on  Kickstarter to help get funding to start the redesign project if needed.

 


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