Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Here are my ideas for a new Proverbs evil theme.  I wanted to make a theme that targets speed decks and has a "place opponent's cards beneath deck" thing going.  Pale Green already has two famous "place beneath deck" cards, in Sin in the Camp and Words of Discouragement, so I put the theme in Pale Green.  Also, some Proverbs lost souls are needed.

Immoral Woman
3/3 generic female human Pale Green evil character
Proverbs 5:3-4
"Search deck for House of Death or Bread of Wickedness.  If a male human hero is in battle, place a random card from opponent's hand beneath deck.  May band to a male Proverbs evil character."

House of Death
Evil Fortress
Proverbs 2:18-19
(Holds one active Bread of Wickedness)
"If your Proverbs female evil character is in battle, you may discard this card or a Proverbs evil enhancement from hand to capture a male human in battle, regardless of protection (limit once per turn).  Protect your Proverbs evil characters from opponent's dominants."

Bread of Wickedness
Artifact
Proverbs 4:17
"Your Proverbs evil characters cannot be ignored.  Protect your Proverbs evil characters in territory from conversion.  You may place this card beneath deck to make all opponents place a card from hand or territory beneath deck."

Indebted Fool
0/6 generic male Pale Green evil character
Proverbs 5:22-23
"Search deck for Foolish Surety and activate it on your artifact pile (previous artifact is negated).  Remove this character from the game after battle."

Foolish Surety
0/6 Pale Green curse
Proverbs 6:1-2
(X = number of good brigades in play and set-aside of the player taking a turn)
"During each player's upkeep, that player must place X-2 good cards from hand or territory beneath deck.  Protect from special abilities and restrict players from deactivating.  Remove from the game after 3 turns.  Cannot be negated."

Folly
2/8 unique female Pale Green evil character, not human/not demon
Proverbs 9:13
(X = number of cards opponent has drawn from good abilities in current battle phase)
"Regardless of protection, opponent must place X cards from hand beneath deck.  Protect all decks and hands from draw, shuffle, search, and exchange abilities for 2 turns.  Cannot be negated."

Wicked Ruler
8/10 weapon-class generic male Pale Green evil character
Proverbs 28:15
"If opponent controls a hero of */3 or less and no Proverbs hero is in play, opponent must give you an enhancement from hand.  Cannot be prevented."

Fools
X/X generic genderless Pale Green evil character
Proverbs 12:15
(X = number of your Proverbs evil characters in play)
"You may exchange this character with a Proverbs evil character in deck, territory, hand, or discard.  If opponent has more than 10 cards in hand, protect Proverbs lost souls from rescue.  Cannot be negated."

Enticed
Pale Green evil enhancement
Proverbs 7:21
"If used by a Proverbs female evil character, capture all male humans in battle, regardless of protection.  Cannot be interrupted."

And one more that I haven't found a character for, but I have an ability I would love to put on a character.  It makes a unique stand-alone character, but it only works with another Proverbs character in play.  Suggestions for the name/verse are welcome.

(No name)
12/12 male Pale Green evil character
(No verse)
"If blocking and opponent has drawn or searched deck this turn, you may look at opponent's hand and place a card (or two dominants) beneath owner's deck.  Cannot be negated if another Proverbs evil character is in play."

Here are my ideas for a new Proverbs evil theme.  I wanted to make a theme that targets speed decks and has a "place opponent's cards beneath deck" thing going.  Pale Green already has two famous "place beneath deck" cards, in Sin in the Camp and Words of Discouragement, so I put the theme in Pale Green.

Don't forget the most recent and most nasty when used with magicians, Invoking Terror.  Make sure you realize that if you make these cards Pale Green, they will be mixed with magicians (and probably Assyrians).

Also, some Proverbs lost souls are needed.

There are currently 4 (with special abilities), though 2 of them are the 2-liner and 3-liner.  Still, I'm sure more could be derived from such a rich book.

First, I have to say that I love the idea of this theme.  A few questions:

- For House of Death, can this be stopped in any way?  By the current rules, I'm not sure that you can even use ITB to stop it (since it's not IN battle) and that makes me worried.  Essentially, even with FBTN and/or banding, you'd just have to discard Proverbs enhancements for an automatic win and to capture heroes, crippling your opponent going forward.  This worries me.

- I agree with Pol that you should make Surety a curse.  Also, it should specify that it activates on the Artifact Pile and deactivates an artifact there.

- Foolish Surety is very interesting.  But the game-breaker in me would run this with Sam-I-Am with magician splash, then I can just throw my Davids and Sauls back into deck, put an evil character on the bottom, pop him up with other magicians, and use Sam to draw a bazillion cards.  Also, should the protection from deactivation instead by "restrict all players from deactivating" or something like that?  Not sure which would be more appropriate.

- For Folly, protecting all decks from shuffle, would that mean that if I exchanged, I just wouldn't shuffle?  Because that might be a bit frightening, knowing exactly what cards you would get (see again what deck I would run above and that I would search about every turn with it, and you can search with Fools too).

Otherwise, I do think that these are interesting and fresh concepts.  I'll take a look to see what I can find for that last card, but may I suggest instead having it bottom-deck two card or one dominant?

As far as the point about Sam decks placing more cards than they would draw, that's sort of the point.  I want to make sure there are Davids IN my deck, and not on the field (depending on how this ruling goes down, it could be even more important), and the draw 3 is after AutO draw 2 and in addition to the rest of the drawing you'd try to do with that chain.  Though, now that I think about it, that deck can already bottom in 2 turns so it probably doesn't matter

I like your counter-points.  Also I see your point (and agree) that dominant hate would be more interesting.  Haven't had a chance to read Proverbs again, but I'll let you know if I come across anything for that verse.