Author Topic: Philistines (Read 8731 times)

Asahel24601 · « **on:** March 13, 2012, 03:57:39 PM »

To start this up...

adotson85 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:07:41 PM »

I like the idea, but the current version is way too OP. I would make it CBP at most. CBI is way too strong on an autoblock character. I would also make X= # of OT Warrior Class Phillistines in territory.

Red Wing · « **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:14:19 PM »

I agree with adotson. I'd use the current version in almost every deck.

browarod · « **Reply #3 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:18:02 PM »

I'd prefer the X to be Warrior-class Philistines in battle, rather than territory, to try and help balance it (though it'd still be powerful in T2 with 4 of these). And, yeah, the CBI needs to change.

Drrek · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:19:31 PM »

Its oh so very OP, a CBI battle-winning character is never a good thing, and you haven't even put the identifier to have x = the number of Phillistines, so this card could go in ANY deck as an auto-block

Wings of Music · « **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:27:41 PM »

I'm with these guys it's way OP right now. Simply moving the CBI would help a lot.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:41:38 PM »

X=Number of Warrior Class Evil Characters in your territory
"You may band to a Warrior Class Philistine or Discard up to X Heroes. Cannot be Negated if there are multiple good brigades in battle."

browarod · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:48:24 PM »

I like Pol's suggestion except for the CBN part. Dual-brigade offenses are not something I think should be punished as the prevalence of Angel support is more helpful than harmful (in my opinion), so I think it should be CBN if 3 or more brigades are in battle, rather than just "multiple" (though I know that would make the text longer).

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2012, 05:02:05 PM »

The reason it's 2 is so that a lone Same gets appropriately punished. What I would do instead is only let him Discard Human Heroes.

Redoubter · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2012, 07:25:43 PM »

I think that actually there SHOULD be a CBI on him...CBI by evil cards. That way you can't have Philly Chariot and Horses on him, interrupt the battle (including his removal from the game SA), when he enters, draw, and play something else. Sure, I can't think of anything now to do the trick, but the possibility of yet another one of these combos in T2 makes me nervous.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2012, 07:35:33 PM »

Nah I don' t see any chance for anything broken. An interrupt would only suspend his ability, it would reactivate after the enhancement completed.

Redoubter · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2012, 07:50:43 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 13, 2012, 07:35:33 PM

Nah I don' t see any chance for anything broken. An interrupt would only suspend his ability, it would reactivate after the enhancement completed.

Not if the battle ends/the cards are removed (see: other archers with horses who play Wonders Forgotten and Forgotten History).

Current ways to do it: Political Savvy, Love of Money to Horses to any End the Battle CBN card. Also not sure if abilities still reactivate outside of battle in set-aside. If not then Horses to Worship of Milcom

In addition, foresight is needed in cases like this. Cards get added a lot that end up broken a lot later because of out-dated language or because "it wasn't relevant" when the card was printed. In any case, I've just shown 1 VERY viable option, 1 option, and one (pending rules check) additional option. Danger.

megamanlan · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2012, 01:27:11 AM »

Another Option is to change it to territory. But I do agree, switch it to CBI by Evil Cards so we don't have another broken Archer.
(Thank Rob that Egyptian Archer isn't that good, because of their Horses)

Wings of Music · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2012, 01:06:36 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on March 13, 2012, 07:50:43 PM

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 13, 2012, 07:35:33 PM
Nah I don' t see any chance for anything broken. An interrupt would only suspend his ability, it would reactivate after the enhancement completed.

Not if the battle ends/the cards are removed (see: other archers with horses who play Wonders Forgotten and Forgotten History).

Current ways to do it: Political Savvy, Love of Money to Horses to any End the Battle CBN card. Also not sure if abilities still reactivate outside of battle in set-aside. If not then Horses to Worship of Milcom

In addition, foresight is needed in cases like this. Cards get added a lot that end up broken a lot later because of out-dated language or because "it wasn't relevant" when the card was printed. In any case, I've just shown 1 VERY viable option, 1 option, and one (pending rules check) additional option. Danger.

Hold on,

With end the battle cards either one of two things would happen, a) Philly archers ability would reactivate discarding the hero, and himself after he returned to territory. b) nothing would happen except battle resolution and Philly archers ability would be like it had never activated.

With political Savy, Philly archer would go to hand and the hero would still be alive.

Redoubter · « **Reply #14 on:** March 14, 2012, 01:26:24 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 14, 2012, 01:06:36 PM

Hold on,

With end the battle cards either one of two things would happen, a) Philly archers ability would reactivate discarding the hero, and himself after he returned to territory. b) nothing would happen except battle resolution and Philly archers ability would be like it had never activated.

With political Savy, Philly archer would go to hand and the hero would still be alive.

False, an evil interrupt the battle would not interrupt the instant part of the evil character by the very definition of ITB. Rather, it interrupts the ongoing ability (the removal from game at end of battle). When the battle ends, the card is no long in battle. Thus, it does not reactivate.

This is already done with other archers, and it does work by the rules of interrupt. However, if it is CBI by an evil card, then you cannot stop the ability from triggering and removing the archer from the game. Otherwise, you can use an evil ITB after discarding the heroes to stop it.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #15 on:** March 14, 2012, 02:50:12 PM »

oh pardon me, you're actually right, sorry bout that.

I think it's a moot point though, since it means that the hero would still be discarded and if the hero is discarded the trigger on Philly archer would still cause Philly archer to be removed from the game even if he was returned to hand/territory.

Redoubter · « **Reply #16 on:** March 14, 2012, 03:01:41 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 14, 2012, 02:50:12 PM

oh pardon me, you're actually right, sorry bout that.

I think it's a moot point though, since it means that the hero would still be discarded and if the hero is discarded the trigger on Philly archer would still cause Philly archer to be removed from the game even if he was returned to hand/territory.

While you are right that it would be removed if all heroes were discarded and no Horses were on him to start with (because of no opportunity to play an enhancement), if he entered battle with Horses, he could still play something like Political Savvy.

Then he and Horses would both go to hand, the heroes would be discarded, he'd not be removed (that part of the ability was interrupted), and sad face occurs for opponent.

Rinse and repeat (in T2) or get another auto-block (in T1).

Wings of Music · « **Reply #17 on:** March 14, 2012, 03:06:34 PM »

No, his trigger would not be interrupted by def of ITB, soooo he would still be removed. As long as the discard happens the remove from came happens.

Redoubter · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2012, 03:11:36 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 14, 2012, 03:06:34 PM

No, his trigger would not be interrupted by def of ITB, soooo he would still be removed. As long as the discard happens the remove from came happens.

That is not true, as I pointed out before. ITB ONLY interrupts ongoing abilities, cards causing removal of your characters (in battle), and the last card played by an opponent.

The discard is instant, it does not get interrupted by any evil ITB.

The RFG is ongoing, it does get interrupted by any evil ITB.

You've obviously never seen a banding chain of archers with horsies discard 4 heroes in territory, play an end-the-battle card, and walk back to territory in T2

Wings of Music · « **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2012, 03:18:25 PM »

Oops misred the definition of ITB when I looked at it a moment ago

, I now stand corrected.

Redoubter · « **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2012, 03:31:55 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 14, 2012, 03:18:25 PM

Oops misred the definition of ITB when I looked at it a moment ago , I now stand corrected.

It's fine, I had a protracted argument recently where I stated the wrong thing for 3-4 pages

It happens

But yes, I think a "CBI by evil" is a good add to this card. I do like the concept, at least.

Asahel24601 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 14, 2012, 10:58:00 PM »

updated

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #22 on:** March 15, 2012, 06:50:37 AM »

Another OP card. There's no reason for Sippi to be more powerful than Goliath.

Nameless · « **Reply #23 on:** March 15, 2012, 08:43:11 AM »

Way OP. Unless they band he's an auto block.

Arrthoa · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2012, 10:46:00 AM »

Limit it to a certain brigade of enhancements like they did with the new King Ahab. That will make it less OP. I would make it Negate red brigade enhancements of */3 or less.

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Author Topic: Philistines (Read 8731 times)

browarod

browarod