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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: Daniel on May 14, 2014, 04:51:28 PM
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I was bored and it's thunderstorming so here you go. I might add more later.
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The 'watchers' in the Bible were actually Demons so...
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The 'watchers' in the Bible were actually Demons so...
There's a difference between a demon and a fallen angel. The watchers were fallen angels who, in the film Noah, are ultimately redeemed.
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Demons are by definition Fallen Angels. Either way, the movie wasn't exactly Biblically accurate as the Giants are generally acknowledged are evil considering the passage. Mostly I'm looking more at the Biblical account though, less of the movie.
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Demons are by definition Fallen Angels. Either way, the movie wasn't exactly Biblically accurate as the Giants are generally acknowledged are evil considering the passage. Mostly I'm looking more at the Biblical account though, less of the movie.
Fallen angels are merely angels who fall out of favour and into a sinful state. They are not necessarily evil, nor ill-intentioned. Demons, or "unclean spirits" are expressly evil beings who seek to possess or manipulate another being.
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Ila's ability should be "May band to any male, or maybe female, hero. Ignore all male, and probably some female, evil characters. Cannot be negated."
DON'T ASK QUESTIONS, JUST DO IT.
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Demons are by definition Fallen Angels.
This is false. Demons and fallen angels are entirely separate beings, and the question of whether fallen angels can be redeemed is completely unanswered in the Bible.
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Demons are non-human Evil Characters of demonic origin. All beasts are also considered demons (see Beast).
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The serpent would be going in my deck right away. Low numbers and use of any enhancements ? Sign me up
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Demons are by definition Fallen Angels.
This is false. Demons and fallen angels are entirely separate beings, and the question of whether fallen angels can be redeemed is completely unanswered in the Bible.
Chris! I missed you friend.
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Watcher doesn't specify how long to be set aside for...is it just until a card would allow him to come back?
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This thread is provacative.
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Demons are by definition Fallen Angels.
This is false. Demons and fallen angels are entirely separate beings, and the question of whether fallen angels can be redeemed is completely unanswered in the Bible.
If you make them separate beings, then you must account for the origin of both. Unless proven different by the Bible, I will agree with megamanlan that the terms are interchangeable and thus the beings are one and the same.
To my knowledge, the only mention of "Watcher" is in Nebby's dream in Daniel 4. It is an Angel of God who carries out God's judgement on Earth. Only non-biblical Jewish legend connects it to Genesis...which as I stated is non-biblical. Thus, the one mention of "Watcher" in the Bible is not demonic but not Earth-dwelling giants either.
As for the movie "Noah," it is heretical and nothing trustworthy can be gleaned from it.
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Demons are by definition Fallen Angels.
This is false. Demons and fallen angels are entirely separate beings, and the question of whether fallen angels can be redeemed is completely unanswered in the Bible.
If you make them separate beings, then you must account for the origin of both. Unless proven different by the Bible, I will agree with megamanlan that the terms are interchangeable and thus the beings are one and the same.
To my knowledge, the only mention of "Watcher" is in Nebby's dream in Daniel 4. It is an Angel of God who carries out God's judgement on Earth. Only non-biblical Jewish legend connects it to Genesis...which as I stated is non-biblical. Thus, the one mention of "Watcher" in the Bible is not demonic but not Earth-dwelling giants either.
As for the movie "Noah," it is heretical and nothing trustworthy can be gleaned from it.
To be fair, there is no passage in the bible that explains the origin of demons, much less fallen angels. Only extra-biblical books like The Book of Enoch go into detail about such things. And before you say that the book of Enoch is not trustworthy, all of the authors of the bible were influenced by Enoch and many of them quoted from it.
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All of the authors of the bible were influenced by Enoch and many of them quoted from it.
Source? As far as I know, the only quote from the book of Enoch came in the book of Jude. And I don't know how you could prove/disprove that Enoch influenced all (not some!) Biblical authors.
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All of the authors of the bible were influenced by Enoch and many of them quoted from it.
Source? As far as I know, the only quote from the book of Enoch came in the book of Jude. And I don't know how you could prove/disprove that Enoch influenced all (not some!) Biblical authors.
Well for starters, Jesus himself quoted Enoch. Is that good enough for ya?
Matthew 5:5 - "Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth."
Enoch 5:7 - "The elect shall possess light, joy and peace, and they shall inherit the earth."
John 5:22 - "Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son..."
Enoch 69:27 - "The principal part of the judgment was assigned to him, the Son of man..."
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I was bored and it's thunderstorming so here you go. I might add more later.
Daniel, How did you make these cards? Very cool. Is there an online program that does this automatically?
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I was bored and it's thunderstorming so here you go. I might add more later.
Daniel, How did you make these cards? Very cool. Is there an online program that does this automatically?
Thanks Joey Chips! I made these all in Photoshop. There IS a program for this however for Windows and Mac...check it out here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/new-card-ideas/redemption-card-creator-v1-0/)!
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So, i know that i shouldn't really be resurrecting a topic this old, but i would like to set the record straight, that the book of enoch is false, and i have several links here talking about it if you want to go into more depth on the subject.
http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-book-of-enoch-is-fake-alert.html (http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-book-of-enoch-is-fake-alert.html)
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm)
http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Enoch.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Enoch.html)
Once again, sorry for bringing this back up, i just don't want anyone to get confused who might be going through old posts and happens to stumble upon this one. THE BOOK OF ENOCH IS FLASE!
Also, fallen angels are the same as demons. why you ask? Its in the name. FALLEN It implies that they have fallen from heaven and cannot attain their previously holy state. here's a link explaining more about this too.
http://www.gotquestions.org/fallen-angels.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/fallen-angels.html)
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Demons are by definition Fallen Angels.
This is false. Demons and fallen angels are entirely separate beings, and the question of whether fallen angels can be redeemed is completely unanswered in the Bible.
If you make them separate beings, then you must account for the origin of both. Unless proven different by the Bible, I will agree with megamanlan that the terms are interchangeable and thus the beings are one and the same.
To my knowledge, the only mention of "Watcher" is in Nebby's dream in Daniel 4. It is an Angel of God who carries out God's judgement on Earth. Only non-biblical Jewish legend connects it to Genesis...which as I stated is non-biblical. Thus, the one mention of "Watcher" in the Bible is not demonic but not Earth-dwelling giants either.
As for the movie "Noah," it is heretical and nothing trustworthy can be gleaned from it.
OH MY GOODNESS!!! SO AGREED!!!!
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So, i know that i shouldn't really be resurrecting a topic this old, but i would like to set the record straight, that the book of enoch is false, and i have several links here talking about it if you want to go into more depth on the subject.
http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-book-of-enoch-is-fake-alert.html (http://watchmanforjesus.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-book-of-enoch-is-fake-alert.html)
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm (http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/book_of_enoch.htm)
http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Enoch.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/book-of-Enoch.html)
Once again, sorry for bringing this back up, i just don't want anyone to get confused who might be going through old posts and happens to stumble upon this one. THE BOOK OF ENOCH IS FLASE!
Also, fallen angels are the same as demons. why you ask? Its in the name. FALLEN It implies that they have fallen from heaven and cannot attain their previously holy state. here's a link explaining more about this too.
http://www.gotquestions.org/fallen-angels.html (http://www.gotquestions.org/fallen-angels.html)
I take it you're pretty young, your sources there are all over the place.
Thanks for checking out my Noah cards, inspired by the Noah film.
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I take it you're pretty young, your sources there are all over the place.
Thanks for checking out my Noah cards, inspired by the Noah film.
What are your sources?
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Jesus-is-savior is a joke and should not be used for any serious research.
The Book of Enoch is an ancient book, most of the New Testament writers were familiar with it. It is dated to 300 BC.
Please refer to this article compiling sources on apocalyptic literature. (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Encyclopaedia_Biblica/Apocalyptic_Literature#II._The_Book_of_Enoch)
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300 bc? you mean to tell me encoh lived 300 years before christ? ??? what doesn't add up here? enoch lived THOUSANDS of years before christ.
Also, that link made NO sense. what even is this? this is one of the sentences from it. please explain what this is.
"Ireck frag- ment \\t.. ^ova in 18, (Lavio^apa. in 28 i, and fia^ijpa. in L'l i. The first is, it is true, an .\ram. form of ^15 and the two latter onaip."
and this is just weird
"By the exegesis of later times, the statement that ICnoch walked with God (Gen. 24 ; see Enoch) was taken to mean that he enjoyed superhuman privileges of intercourse with God, and in this intercourse received revelations as to the nature of the heavens and the earth, the present lot and the destinies of men and angels. "
How can you trust this article? clearly by the above mentioned sentence, taken word for word out of the article you showed, this is not biblical in the slightest. we read in the scriptures that there will be false teachers and prophets who look to undermine us and discredit the true word of God. i'd say the book of enoch has done a pretty good job of that. Also, so what if i'm young, the bible says " Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity." i am strictly trying to prove that the book of enoch is a false book, against all that God says. if it is a true book of the Bible, why is it not included in literally every printed bible today?
the article claims that it was written by "hellenistic jews" hmmm... where have i heard that before? oh yeah! its one of the evil characters in redemption! how can a book that is written by what actual biblical writers call heretics, ever be trustworthy?
Now, i could go on and on, but i would really like to discuss this with better evidence on your side, because that link is a bunch of letters that someone threw up. like, its painful to read :P find a better article please.
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No. The book itself is dated as far as 300 BC. Not the character of Enoch.
How is the statement about Enoch receiving supernatural revelation anti-bible? This is similar to the character of John.
Also, I believe I never made the claim the book of Enoch belonged in the bible. It should be respected as a historical document reflecting the beliefs of the time, not as scripture.
Lastly, Redemption is Christian oriented and thus has leaned towards an antisemetic view of Jews.
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Hey, Daniel, just curious... Are you trying to say that we don't know if the Watchers were evil, that we know that they were good, or are you simply trying to make cards from the movie?
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So, that means enoch didn't write his own book, that could be a problem.
Sorry, took that quote out of context, but that article you gave is still terrible.
"Lastly, Redemption is Christian oriented and thus has leaned towards an anti semitic view of Jews."
Umm.. no, almost all of the heroes in redemption are jews, and as christians, we believe in the bible, which was a historical book about jews, written by jews. Hellenistic Jews are people who believe in both the old testament, and Greek mythology. so ya know, a "christian book" they write is pretty trustworthy.
Enoch 10:25-26
25Purify the earth from all oppression, from all injustice, from all crime, from all impiety, and from all the pollution which is committed upon it. Exterminate them from the earth.
26Then shall all the children of men be righteous, and all nations shall pay me divine honours, and bless me; and all shall adore me.
Here, it makes it sound as though God wants to take away our free will. in the real bible, He clearly tells all the people, through noah, that they have a choice.
Enoch 14:2
2And understand with the heart. As he has created and given to men the power of comprehending the word of understanding, so has he created and given to me the power of reproving the Watchers, the offspring of heaven. I have written your petition; and in my vision it has been shown me, that what you request will not be granted you as long as the world endures.
so... enoch has control over angels? um, no.
Chapter 20
1These are the names of the angels who watch.
2Uriel, one of the holy angels, who presides over clamor and terror.
3Raphael, one of the holy angels, who presides over the spirits of men.
4Raguel, one of the holy angels, who inflicts punishment on the world and the luminaries.
5Michael, one of the holy angels, who, presiding over human virtue, commands the nations.
6Sarakiel, one of the holy angels, who presides over the spirits of the children of men that transgress.
7Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who presides over Ikisat, (31) over paradise, and over the cherubim.
(31) Ikisat. The serpents (Charles, p. 92; Knibb, p. 107).
So, there is a "holy" angel for terror? and one for our souls? Michael can control our virtues? this makes no sense! plus, aside from Michael and Gabriel, none of these angels are mentioned anywhere else in the bible!
clearly, there are some theological errors in these chapters. Also, you say it should be "respected as a historical document" there is nothing historical about this. the only thing slightly historical is the flood, but all it says about that is the word "deluge" twice in reference to it. i don't understand how this is biblical at all.
in all seriousness, let's just drop this argument, and let's say we have separate view points.
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clearly, there are some theological errors in these chapters. Also, you say it should be "respected as a historical document" there is nothing historical about this. the only thing slightly historical is the flood, but all it says about that is the word "deluge" twice in reference to it. i don't understand how this is biblical at all.
Nothing historical about a 2000+ year old manuscript? Alright kiddo.
in all seriousness, let's just drop this argument, and let's say we have separate view points.
You're the one who necroposted a 2+ year-old thread to start an argument, lol.
Hey, Daniel, just curious... Are you trying to say that we don't know if the Watchers were evil, that we know that they were good, or are you simply trying to make cards from the movie?
These cards are just made from the movie, where the watchers are portrayed as good characters who help out Noah.
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Consider this a warning gentleman. I will lock/move if we're not a little more civil
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clearly, there are some theological errors in these chapters. Also, you say it should be "respected as a historical document" there is nothing historical about this. the only thing slightly historical is the flood, but all it says about that is the word "deluge" twice in reference to it. i don't understand how this is biblical at all.
Nothing historical about a 2000+ year old manuscript? Alright kiddo.
in all seriousness, let's just drop this argument, and let's say we have separate view points.
You're the one who necroposted a 2+ year-old thread to start an argument, lol.
Hey, Daniel, just curious... Are you trying to say that we don't know if the Watchers were evil, that we know that they were good, or are you simply trying to make cards from the movie?
These cards are just made from the movie, where the watchers are portrayed as good characters who help out Noah.
Okay, that's what I thought. I think that itself is at the root of this argument... It is being taken way more seriously than it was meant to be.
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Yeah, lesson learned, don't comment on theologically controversial post :P
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It is fine to defend your faith and to speak up when you feel something swerves from biblical truth. Clearly, I stand by this because I spoke up earlier in the thread.
Also, I think this is a good lesson to highlight that not everyone (even on a Christian board) will agree with you.
Speak your faith and do so kindly. :)
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Consider this a warning gentleman. I will lock/move if we're not a little more civil
He isnt saying not to discuss it, he is saying that you were coming cross a bit rude, and to be nicer about it.
also, I liked the cards, but dont you think the watchers should be a bi bigger in numbers? they were pretty powerfull in the movie if I remember correctly.
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Please if you're going to have a theology debate move the conversation to pms or a different thread. This is a new card idea post. I respect the fervor and pursuit of knowledge that has been displayed but I don't feel it relevant to the place on the board. Regardless of your viewpoint on the matter remember to give each other love and respect. Regardless of how credible something may seem to you. Im tired of Christians belittling or demeaning each other over stuff like this. Even if it is a friendly debate there still is a right and wrong way to do it and if you can't do it without creating strife or divisions between brothers and sisters of the faith maybe you shouldn't be doing it. Not saying that's happening now but hey rant over.
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Next: Redemption cards based on 2016 presidential candidates!!!
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Next: Redemption cards based on 2016 presidential candidates!!!
Good, I was really hoping to get another character that could search for my Wall of Protection!
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Next: Redemption cards based on 2016 presidential candidates!!!
#FeelTheNicanor
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Next: Redemption cards based on 2016 presidential candidates!!!
Redemption cards should have--at the least--the barest smidgeon of Christian-related content (IMO).
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Next: Redemption cards based on 2016 presidential candidates!!!
Redemption cards should have--at the least--the barest smidgeon of Christian-related content (IMO).
Pretty sure most of the GOP candidates claim to be Christians. ::)
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Next: Redemption cards based on 2016 presidential candidates!!!
Redemption cards should have--at the least--the barest smidgeon of Christian-related content (IMO).
Pretty sure most of the GOP candidates claim to be Christians. ::)
Then maybe they can all have Matthew 7:16 as their verse. ;)
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Next: Redemption cards based on 2016 presidential candidates!!!
Redemption cards should have--at the least--the barest smidgeon of Christian-related content (IMO).
Read my post as a joke in context with the thread and it should make more sense ::)
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Next: Redemption cards based on 2016 presidential candidates!!!
Redemption cards should have--at the least--the barest smidgeon of Christian-related content (IMO).
Read my post as a joke and it should make more sense ::)
Hahahahahahahahahahaha.