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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: browarod on April 28, 2012, 02:41:42 PM

Title: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: browarod on April 28, 2012, 02:41:42 PM
I didn't want to hijack Gabe's thread with anymore about this, lol.

The next Redemption release by Cactus Games will be a starter deck.

That starter deck will contain each of the brigades that were not used on a card in the 2011 release.

The Dominants used and character counts will not be exactly the same as we've used in the past starters.

One old Dominant is probably going to receive a new ability.

If nothing changes between now and the final draft, there are 19 enhancements and 19 characters being reprinted into the appropriate brigade for their theme, most with new abilities.

Good brigades:
White (Musicians, perhaps?)
?

Evil brigades:
Orange
Gray - Romans

There have been rumors that SoG will be the old Dominant with a new ability, perhaps negating Souls before rescuing?

Given the brigades above, any thoughts on the 19 characters and 19 enhancements being reprinted?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Drrek on April 28, 2012, 02:45:29 PM
Teal was in last year's set, since Zeke is half teal.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: browarod on April 28, 2012, 02:49:00 PM
So both starters are white then? Because I can't think of any other good brigades that weren't in 2011.

Blue, Green, Teal, Silver, Gold, Red, Purple were all there, that only leaves White.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 02:54:19 PM
It's only now that I realize I should have trademarked the overzealous soccer mom idea, so I could charge a quarter to everyone who mentions it.

At any rate, I believe we're finally going to see a David reprint. I don't think Gabe would have made that topic at all (keeping in mind that that topic had posts from Bryon, who never posts in this forum) unless the Elders were actively figuring out what the community wants in a David card, since there's a lot of debate about that. I also have it on good faith that both Peter and Andrew are receiving reprints, though it's been a while since I heard that, so it might have changed since then.

So both starters are white then? Because I can't think of any other good brigades that weren't in 2011.

Blue, Green, Teal, Silver, Gold, Red, Purple were all there, that only leaves White.

He didn't exclusively say they'd be white, just that they would definitely have some white in them. Starter decks are never mono brigade, nor do they have an exclusive focus on any one brigade.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 28, 2012, 02:58:45 PM
I hope Peter and Bro get reprinted so my disciple deck can get a boost. Guess I'll have to wait another year for the remaining Sons of Jacob to be printed.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 03:00:12 PM
Now we have 2 trolls.

Out of 20 votes, really?  Is 10% of the forum really trolls?

If some knew something about what the future holds they might be inclined to include certain dominants that would otherwise make them troll like.  ;)

Either Doubt or Glory of the Lord is going to get a reprint to make it a worthwhile seventh dom. A Mighty Blow
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 28, 2012, 03:03:17 PM
cold see some of the forgotten cards like NT blue, more teal, and hopefully Romans

I've heard it could be SoG with a way to get around NT, /4*, 1st round, and Human only lost soul
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 03:05:24 PM
cold see some of the forgotten cards like NT blue, more teal, and hopefully Romans

I've heard it could be SoG with a way to get around NT, /4*, 1st round, and Human only lost soul

I can't recall if it's been 100% confirmed yet, but yeah, there's been a lot of talk, even from the Elders, of a "Negate and Rescue a Lost Soul" SoG.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on April 28, 2012, 03:06:47 PM
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/1st-article-up-at-cactus-site/msg342165/#msg342165

I'm also predicting a John reprint and a Thaddeus reprint.





Okay, maybe not Thad.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: BubbleBoy on April 28, 2012, 03:08:24 PM
I really really hope that Teal gets some Solomon's Temple/Tabernacle stuff. That's been a long time coming.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 03:08:56 PM
Why does John need a reprint? He's still one of the best Disciples, even without TGT support. If anything, James need a reprint.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Asahel24601 on April 28, 2012, 03:10:34 PM
What of grey? Do we get more Syrians?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 28, 2012, 03:11:07 PM
John's bro does need a reprint but keep the band ability on him
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Drrek on April 28, 2012, 03:12:46 PM
What of grey? Do we get more Syrians?

I assume its either Syrians or Emperors, both need a good bit of help.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 03:15:37 PM
John's bro does need a reprint but keep the band ability on him

That's a tricky thing to do. John is one of the better heroes in the entire game right now, and especially within Disciples. I agree that James should maintain the band ability, but even just making it CBN might be overpowered.

What of grey? Do we get more Syrians?

I assume its either Syrians or Emperors, both need a good bit of help.

I suspect Syrians over Emperors. I vaguely recall hearing something from Nats about the possibility of strong Syrian support in the upcoming set. Also, it makes more sense to have all the cards in a starter deck be from the Bible, instead of outside sources (as reliable as they may be).
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: browarod on April 28, 2012, 03:19:54 PM
Rumor mill chugs along:
A source of mine that shall not be named has it on good authority that the Gray will be Romans.

Also, I misunderstood Gabe's post and assumed that meant the brigades not in 2011 were the only brigades to be in the deck when, in fact, he did not say such. So, does anyone have any ideas as to what the other good brigade(s) featured will be?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Asahel24601 on April 28, 2012, 03:23:45 PM
Rumor mill chugs along:
A source of mine that shall not be named has it on good authority that the Gray will be Romans.
Aw... They need less of a boost. Didn't they have like 4 tins?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 03:29:43 PM
The number of tins they had is irrelevant, since it simply depends on how effective the theme is. The playtesters may have decided that Romans were easier to use as anti-meta material, especially since they go so well with Herods.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Asahel24601 on April 28, 2012, 03:33:35 PM
Ah...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 28, 2012, 03:34:14 PM
Plus there are plenty of Romans besides emperors
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 03:35:32 PM
Just to make sure it's understood, that's not at all an official statement; it's just hearsay and a possible explanation for why they may have decided on Romans over Syrians for this set.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master KChief on April 28, 2012, 03:38:58 PM
Or, a NT defense to match the speculated Disciples offense?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 03:42:01 PM
Romans are pretty well-established to be a bad match with Disciples. Romans Destroy Jerusalem and Crown of Thorns both rip apart the opposite alignment, and they're pretty strong for their respective themes. I'd be surprised if the new Romans were introduced with the intention of having synergy between Disciples/Gardensciples/TGT and Romans.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Redoubter on April 28, 2012, 03:49:12 PM
Romans are pretty well-established to be a bad match with Disciples. Romans Destroy Jerusalem and Crown of Thorns both rip apart the opposite alignment, and they're pretty strong for their respective themes. I'd be surprised if the new Romans were introduced with the intention of having synergy between Disciples/Gardensciples/TGT and Romans.

At least with the last set though, didn't they have NT offense paired with OT defense and the other set OT offense paired with NT defense?  If they did that again, it would actually make things interesting.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 28, 2012, 03:50:45 PM
I'm Definately thinking Demons and Teal. I'd much rather have Romans then Syrians in the Deck. There are at least 3 NT Emperors (actually from the Bible) requiring a useful reprint. And it doesn't have to be just Emperors. There are plenty of Romans that could be put in there too.
I wonder if they may put some Gold or Silver in too.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master KChief on April 28, 2012, 03:57:16 PM
Romans are pretty well-established to be a bad match with Disciples. Romans Destroy Jerusalem and Crown of Thorns both rip apart the opposite alignment, and they're pretty strong for their respective themes. I'd be surprised if the new Romans were introduced with the intention of having synergy between Disciples/Gardensciples/TGT and Romans.

Since when have starter deck offense and defense themes intended to have synergy with each other? ::)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 04:02:58 PM
Romans are pretty well-established to be a bad match with Disciples. Romans Destroy Jerusalem and Crown of Thorns both rip apart the opposite alignment, and they're pretty strong for their respective themes. I'd be surprised if the new Romans were introduced with the intention of having synergy between Disciples/Gardensciples/TGT and Romans.

Since when have starter deck offense and defense themes intended to have synergy with each other? ::)

I think it matters when discussing well-established themes that simply do not go together. I think to try to establish synergy either requires romans to get a protect fort that protects them from all decrease (among other things), and it still would essentially make RDJ unusable when using a NT offense. That said, I've never seen the planning stages of a starter before, since I joined the summer after G&H was released.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master KChief on April 28, 2012, 04:08:01 PM
The starter decks are meant to oppose each other. So if Romans do handily smash Disciples, then it will actually more than likely be paired with whatever offense is in the other starter deck.

Other than that, there is virtually zero synergy between a starters offense and defense. Purple and White NT certainly doesn't pair with Egyptians and whatever brown mess that was before.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Professoralstad on April 28, 2012, 04:08:28 PM
If you look back to G/H, the defense of each deck is thematically opposed to the offense of the other deck. So you had deacons, disciples and good early church people duking it out with demons, Herods, and bad early Church people; and you had Moses, Aaron, and the exiles from Egypt battling with Pharaoh, his army, and Israelite malcontents.

The new starter deck will follow that pattern fairly well.

EDIT: Instaposted by MKC.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 28, 2012, 04:08:42 PM
I think you guys are forgeting that starter decks play against each other. Which means why wouldn't we see Romans in one deck and Diciples in the other. That way they harm each other, like they do already.

(haha instapostd)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: browarod on April 28, 2012, 04:22:23 PM
So, if one of the defenses is Romans, does that basically confirm the opposed offense will be Disciples? I don't really know who else dealt with Romans (other than maybe NT white, which I guess could be what the white offense is, though I don't think they need any help).
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 04:25:52 PM
So, if one of the defenses is Romans, does that basically confirm the opposed offense will be Disciples? I don't really know who else dealt with Romans (other than maybe NT white, which I guess could be what the white offense is, though I don't think they need any help).

There's not much Disciples can get other than Peter and Andrew, and maybe Hero Judas (we won't even go there), so it's unlikely to be that. Maybe a broader "TGT" or just "NT" alignment to oppose Romans?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on April 28, 2012, 04:26:15 PM
Two suspicions:

Deck 1: Disciples/Syrians
New Son of God
Peter (Red/Purple)
Andrew (Red/Purple)
John the Revalator (Purple/Green)
Not sure what NT hero we need here, Claudia would be great but she'd likely be tan going forward. Maybe Phillip's Daugters but white is in the 2nd deck. Maybe more centurions (Cornelius?)
Artifact to benefit Centurions
Artifact to benefit Syrians

Defense: Syrians



Deck 2:
Solomon's Temple and Musicians
New Glory of the Lord
Artifact to benefit Demons
Artifact to benefit Musicians

Defense: Revelation Demons
Abaddon
Locust from the Pit
Death and Hades
Beast from the Earth
Beast from the Sea

if the gray is Romans then Demons become OT reprints (Witch of Endor, Workers with Familiar Spirits, Wizards, Lying Spirit, Prince of Greece, Prince of Tyrus,)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 04:36:41 PM
We won't have a Glory of the Lord reprint and a Son of God reprint, unless Gabe didn't phrase his post properly.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: browarod on April 28, 2012, 04:39:23 PM
I really hope Musicians are in there and get a big boost. It would be awesome to have them be at least somewhat competitive.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 28, 2012, 04:42:43 PM
I'd only support a Revelation Demons theme if they'd make them competent and make the Horsemen (and seperate Death and Hades)
I personally hate Cards that are several people in card like Noah's Sons or Death and Hades.
I'd love to see some more OT Demons too.

But I'm not too sure that they would put Disciples in again, because of how much was given to them already.
But if they do make a Judas Hero, it would probably be Judas son of James. (Remember, there are 2 Judas's)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on April 28, 2012, 04:49:35 PM
I'd only support a Revelation Demons theme if they'd make them competent and make the Horsemen (and seperate Death and Hades)
I personally hate Cards that are several people in card like Noah's Sons or Death and Hades.
I'd love to see some more OT Demons too.

But I'm not too sure that they would put Disciples in again, because of how much was given to them already.
But if they do make a Judas Hero, it would probably be Judas son of James. (Remember, there are 2 Judas's)

Judas brother of James = Jude brother of James = Thad, brother of James the less

And Judas the brother of James,.... Of that James, that was the son of Alphaeus; though the Syriac and Arabic versions call him "the son of James", very wrongly: this Judas was also called Thaddaeus and Lebbaeus, and is the writer of the epistle that bears his name:
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 28, 2012, 04:56:23 PM
Actually, the spot where it mentions Judas 'son of James' also mentions Thaddeus.

I'd love to see some really cool effects in the new set, maybe even some dual-brigade cards!
I kinda want see a version of John that works more for Revelation (and is half Green) maybe give him something that works with Angels.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 28, 2012, 04:57:12 PM
I'd love to see Romans and Magicians

If Prince of Tyrus gets a reprint I hope he is orange/black
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 28, 2012, 04:59:04 PM
Actually, the spot where it mentions Judas 'son of James' also mentions Thaddeus.

I'd love to see some really cool effects in the new set, maybe even some dual-brigade cards!
I kinda want see a version of John that works more for Revelation (and is half Green) maybe give him something that works with Angels.

Last thing we need is a Gaden Tomb charcter that has big banding chains and acess to Hidden Treasures
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Scoobug on April 28, 2012, 05:07:31 PM
*Garden Tomb
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 28, 2012, 05:20:18 PM
The point is to make a John that doesn't work well w/ TGT. (Maybe like Negate Ignore Abilities) but at any point have it that the new John doesn't benefit TGT.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 05:27:40 PM
The point is to make a John that doesn't work well w/ TGT. (Maybe like Negate Ignore Abilities) but at any point have it that the new John doesn't benefit TGT.

Uh, no. You make a John that doesn't work with TGT, and nobody will use it unless it's ridiculously overpowered otherwise. I support a green/purple John, just make it negate play abilities or something so it can't work with Hidden Treasures.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 28, 2012, 05:29:52 PM
I'm saying make one for a Revelation theme that would not have room for TGT nor make it worth a person's while to run TGT w/ that John (not that the other one isn't already OP w/ TGT)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Professoralstad on April 28, 2012, 08:30:12 PM
Reading speculation is fun.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Redoubter on April 28, 2012, 08:34:58 PM
Reading speculation is fun.

I imagine it is.  You know what I've heard is even more fun?  Ending speculation with truth :D  I hear it's a blast!
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Drrek on April 28, 2012, 08:47:44 PM
Reading speculation is fun.

I imagine it is.  You know what I've heard is even more fun?  Ending speculation with truth :D  I hear it's a blast!

No, no, what's even MORE fun is to give the truth slowly to one person at a time (obviously starting with me), so that others can join in on the fun of watching the speculation.  ::)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Bryon on April 28, 2012, 08:55:10 PM
Reading speculation is fun.

I imagine it is.  You know what I've heard is even more fun?  Ending speculation with truth :D  I hear it's a blast!

No, no, what's even MORE fun is to give the truth slowly to one person at a time (obviously starting with me), so that others can join in on the fun of watching the speculation.  ::)
No, no, what's even MORE fun is to give the truth VERY slowly - like one letter a day, gradually revealing all the card titles.

Here are the letters for last week, this week, next week, and the next 11 weeks:

L
o
s
t
 
S
o
u
l

(repeat the above 13 times)

:)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: jbeers285 on April 28, 2012, 09:18:01 PM
r there dates for when these will come out
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Redoubter on April 28, 2012, 09:25:22 PM
r there dates for when these will come out

August 9th through the 11th would be my guess.  Just a TOTAL stab in the dark of course ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 28, 2012, 09:51:20 PM
I say more late August like the last set
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2012, 09:53:18 PM
I say more late August like the last set

Traditionally, sets get released so that there are packs (or tins, or decks, or whatever) available at Nats, then later on (in early-to-mid September), they get released on the Cactus site.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 29, 2012, 12:25:59 AM
They'll be revealed at Nats and still unusable for another 3 months and then our stores around here (except Ken) will not get them for another 2 months at least.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: christiangamer25 on April 29, 2012, 12:33:00 AM
lol aren't we mr negative.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 29, 2012, 12:33:48 AM
They'll be revealed at Nats and still unusable for another 3 months and then our stores around here (except Ken) will not get them for another 2 months at least.

Why exactly will they be "unusable"?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 29, 2012, 02:34:45 AM
Not being able to be used in an Offical Tournament. At least that is what happened with the last set.

And that's actually how it is here. It's crazy that the Family Christian Bookstores around here still haven't gotten any new tins at all.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Josh on April 29, 2012, 09:12:28 AM
If you look back to G/H, the defense of each deck is thematically opposed to the offense of the other deck. So you had deacons, disciples and good early church people duking it out with demons, Herods, and bad early Church people; and you had Moses, Aaron, and the exiles from Egypt battling with Pharaoh, his army, and Israelite malcontents.

The new starter deck will follow that pattern fairly well.

If Romans are a defense, then the opposing offense could also be...  Wait for it...  Deacons?  Since everyone has been wanting them to be a theme for a while.  Possibly Disciples + Deacons, with more Deacon stuff (since Disciples are established and Deacons would be new).

Also, I predict that the White offense will have boosts for both Musicians and Daniel.  I suspect that all offenses/defenses will help 2 themes, like the G/H decks.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 29, 2012, 02:53:28 PM
Quote
If Romans are a defense, then the opposing offense could also be...  Wait for it...  Deacons?  Since everyone has been wanting them to be a theme for a while.  Possibly Disciples + Deacons, with more Deacon stuff (since Disciples are established and Deacons would be new).

I think it's unlikely to see Deacons introduced in one of the established brigades. The biggest presence they have thus far is in blue, and Rob doesn't want any additional blue themes, since he feels that Genesis is more than large enough to encompass that entire brigade. All of the other brigades are filled with at least two themes, which leaves the possibility of introducing an additional good brigade (many people think it should be "tan," but they can be ignored, since everyone knows a new brigade will be magenta). One of the Elders (I believe RDT) has stated that no new brigade will be introduced in the upcoming set, which makes it unlikely that deacons will be introduced this set as a full-fledged theme. I think we're going to get some Disciple help (Andrew, Peter, and John reprints, maybe a handful of new enhancements), some NT Gold help (Judges got a lot of help last year and don't really need it this year; NT gold needs a lot of help this year, or it won't get used outside of being splash), and perhaps a card or two for TGT.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 29, 2012, 04:06:03 PM
I don't think that Blue should only be for Genesis. I'd love to see the Deacon theme as that. Also, I want to see a Martyr theme as Red (Martyrs would be excluding the Disciples, and have a lot of Generics)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 29, 2012, 04:22:13 PM
Having an "Early Church" theme with separate identifiers for Martyrs and Deacons is more likely than having Martyrs and Deacons as separate themes I think. Plus, I happen to agree that having Deacons in blue would be fine, but I've heard several times that that is unlikely to happen.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 29, 2012, 06:06:51 PM
I have heard this too, but I don't agree with making a new brigade. It just makes it that the new brigade can't use any older cards. Besides, I don't think there should be an Early Church theme with its own Brigade. It would be better to just spread them out into the various brigades. I'd rather see a reprint of Ananias though.
I think Deacons should have their own theme as NT Blue, and Martyrs should be the NT Red brigade.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 29, 2012, 06:11:50 PM
We already have a developing NT red brigade. While having Martyrs as red would be cool for symbolic reasons, I dislike the thought of having deacons and martyrs as different brigades, since there's so much overlap there. Look at the way that NT gold works: it focuses on two specific groups (Luke and John) that have a lot of overlap. Some cards target both groups, some target one or the other. I see no reason not to set up an "Early Church" theme with different groups like deacons, martyrs, etc, and just put the theme in blue.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 29, 2012, 06:18:32 PM
You could have a good NT Gentiles theme, I mean we've already got the Centurions to build off of.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 29, 2012, 06:25:28 PM
You could have a good NT Gentiles theme, I mean we've already got the Centurions to build off of.

I've always felt that one of the big themes of the New Testament was that gentiles are adopted into God's family, becoming "honorary Jews," and thus, able to be saved through Christ. I think that actually making it a point to separate gentiles from Jews in Redemption, while not quite sacrilege, goes against that very important point.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 29, 2012, 06:35:13 PM
I can see your feelings there but I actually feel pretty much compleatly different than you. I feel like a Gentiles them can help be a great passive teaching tool. (Which is the true heart of the game) We arn't separating them to single them out but celebrating there acceptance into the family. I feel like having them as Heros gives us a chance to show people that they were accepted and more than that, extreamly effective at spreading the good news.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 29, 2012, 07:00:17 PM
Personally, I'd kinda disagree with having the Martyrs being Blue for more then just symbolism, because we can easily get an overwhelming theme from Martyrs alone vs. I wouldnt mind putting the Deacons like w/ the Disciples or Luke/John theme because they are so small and then make most of them Dual brigades (like Stephen) to crossover to the Martyrs as well.

I'd be fine w/ it of both Martyrs and Deacons were small themes and couldn't really get bigger, but Martyrs inherently can get very big quickly (I'm doing a Revelation set and I already have about 10-12 Heroes in there alone) I'd say they deserve to an Individual Brigade for themselves.

As to having a NT Good Gentile theme, I wouldn't really agree to that either. I'd rather see them help other themes (like maybe a Paul theme. Just a thought) not a theme for themselves.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 29, 2012, 07:17:09 PM
The big problem is most of the martyrs in the NT who don't already easily fall into an additional category aren't really known for anything other than being martyrs, which means we probably don't know much about them, which means we're pretty much pulling the ability from nowhere, which is a bad route, and leads to inconsistencies like Thaddeus having one of the best abilities in the game, while Peter is only usable because other cards mention him. While Thaddeus was necessary to complete the Disciples theme, I think taking a bunch of characters that are little more than just names in the Bible, when there are so many full-fledged stories yet to be covered, is a waste of time. I see no reason to have at least two more NT themes that could easily be combined when we already have three fully established, with a lot of overlap between them. Taking every prominent Biblical character (like Paul for instance) and turning it into its own theme is redundant and pointless in my opinion.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 29, 2012, 08:51:30 PM
Quote
If Romans are a defense, then the opposing offense could also be...  Wait for it...  Deacons?  Since everyone has been wanting them to be a theme for a while.  Possibly Disciples + Deacons, with more Deacon stuff (since Disciples are established and Deacons would be new).

 I think we're going to get some Disciple help (Andrew, Peter, and John reprints, maybe a handful of new enhancements), some NT Gold help (Judges got a lot of help last year and don't really need it this year; NT gold needs a lot of help this year, or it won't get used outside of being splash), and perhaps a card or two for TGT.
They may also do a reprint of Matthais ( the disciple that replaced Judas) as a purple hero. Just my opinion on that though
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red Wing on April 29, 2012, 09:18:25 PM
Quote
If Romans are a defense, then the opposing offense could also be...  Wait for it...  Deacons?  Since everyone has been wanting them to be a theme for a while.  Possibly Disciples + Deacons, with more Deacon stuff (since Disciples are established and Deacons would be new).

 I think we're going to get some Disciple help (Andrew, Peter, and John reprints, maybe a handful of new enhancements), some NT Gold help (Judges got a lot of help last year and don't really need it this year; NT gold needs a lot of help this year, or it won't get used outside of being splash), and perhaps a card or two for TGT.
They may also do a reprint of Matthais ( the disciple that replaced Judas) as a purple hero. Just my opinion on that though
Matthais isn't considered a Disciple in Redemption.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 29, 2012, 09:35:42 PM
He should be though then we would have 12 of them that are heroes
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red Wing on April 29, 2012, 09:46:00 PM
He should be though then we would have 12 of them that are heroes
Just Grail Judas…
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 29, 2012, 09:50:31 PM
You can't he is protected while he remains in play and is CBN
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Wings of Music on April 29, 2012, 09:55:46 PM
Not if you Grail him before he goes into battle...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 29, 2012, 10:01:44 PM
Or you just use the old Judas who has no ability at all.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 29, 2012, 10:02:21 PM
Judas Iscariot (Pi)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: 6 / 6 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect this evil character from convert and discard abilities on opponent’s cards while he remains in play. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: NT Male Human, Disciple • Verse: Mark 14:10-11 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Ultra Rare)

So he is protected from Grail cause his ability works while in territory as well

Also we could be expect a reprint of Prophets of Baal and Samaria soon thanks to the reprint of Ahab and Jezabel

Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 29, 2012, 10:11:51 PM
It doesn't matter, if he never enters battle his ability won't activate and he can be converted.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Drrek on April 29, 2012, 10:13:35 PM
Judas Iscariot (Pi)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: 6 / 6 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect this evil character from convert and discard abilities on opponent’s cards while he remains in play. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: NT Male Human, Disciple • Verse: Mark 14:10-11 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Ultra Rare)

So he is protected from Grail cause his ability works while in territory as well

Also we could be expect a reprint of Prophets of Baal and Samaria soon thanks to the reprint of Ahab and Jezabel

The protection only starts after he enters battle, since abilities do not activate in territory.  So if you grail him before he ever enters battle, he becomes a hero.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Redoubter on April 29, 2012, 10:15:13 PM
Instaposted and agree with everyone else...

On a side note, I doubt they'll worry about there not being 12 'good' disciples if they haven't considered Mathias already.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 29, 2012, 11:21:48 PM
Not before it starts in Battle.
As to the reason for Thad's OP'ness is because when the effect was made, they did not use anything from Jude or from other historical references out there.
Plenty of Characters are only Martyrs quite a few are Generic though, but others like James, Jesus' half-brother were Martyred and have no other important points about them either.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: lp670sv on April 29, 2012, 11:38:32 PM
Thad is op because they made a quick change right before he went to print and didnt have time to playtest it properly. No other biblical or game play reason.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 29, 2012, 11:52:47 PM
I understand what happened, I'm saying that the reason why he's OP is because they didn't do that. If his ability was based on the Thaddeus/Judas/Jude of the Bible, he wouldn't be as bad.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 30, 2012, 01:07:37 AM
I know how Thaddeus was a real problem but I feel like the new set gave several counters against him (iron pan, Covinent with Death, Tower of Thebez)

And all the old ways to stop him, writ, charms, and CM all add up to make him annoying but manageable.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 30, 2012, 04:34:48 AM
Ur forgetting Satan's Seat.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: jbeers285 on April 30, 2012, 04:43:15 AM
freaking iron pan kills my deck
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 30, 2012, 11:30:12 AM
That's why u run an extra Fort like WoP to drop to stop Pan. I used to run Seat in my Deck because it shuts down both Simon and Thad.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Professoralstad on April 30, 2012, 11:34:59 AM
FWIW, I can Grail my Judas anytime I want:

Judas Iscariot (Pi)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: 6 / 6 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect this evil character from convert and discard abilities on opponent’s cards while he remains in play. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: NT Male Human, Disciple • Verse: Mark 14:10-11 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Ultra Rare)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 30, 2012, 11:51:48 AM
FWIW, I can Grail my Judas anytime I want:

Haha, your Judas is better than my Judas!  :o
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: EYES_on_ZION on April 30, 2012, 12:52:01 PM
Musicians need a serious boost and for the sake of making nicholas of antioch worth his value they should come out with blue deacons and remake that purple deacon aswell. Those two themes need serious help. Demons need more enhancements and herods need better characters too.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 30, 2012, 01:48:00 PM
Musicians need a serious boost and for the sake of making nicholas of antioch worth his value they should come out with blue deacons and remake that purple deacon aswell. Those two themes need serious help. Demons need more enhancements and herods need better characters too.
As it has been said, Blue is going to be reserved for the Genesis Characters. I agree that Herods need better cards, maybe a chariot they can use to help add speed to them, as well as reprint Agrippa I in the gold brigade so he can use their enhancement without the need of Treachery on him. Demons I could care less about.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on April 30, 2012, 02:02:14 PM
I don't agree w/ Blue being exclusive to Genesis, because it already isn't. We already know that there is another theme in Blue anyway (Job theme) and Decons wouldn't take up too much room anyway in Blue Brigade.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 30, 2012, 02:07:40 PM
The Job theme is kinda like the Centurions theme. There are not enough cards to support them. On a side not Job was printed before all themes were assigned a brigade, only a few evil themes had their own brigade. I believe that Job was continued in blue cause chronologically Job came before the Genesis people, not including Adam and Eve though.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 30, 2012, 03:13:04 PM
I don't agree w/ Blue being exclusive to Genesis, because it already isn't. We already know that there is another theme in Blue anyway (Job theme) and Decons wouldn't take up too much room anyway in Blue Brigade.

Regardless of anyone's personal feelings on the matter (I happen to agree with you), I'm pretty sure that Genesis (and Job) being the only themes in blue is a fact, and unlikely to change. An Elder can correct me if I'm wrong, since I may be, but that's my understanding.

The fact of the matter is a lot of themes need support, and not every theme is going to be gotten to this set. I think the themes that are currently semi-viable but need help (Romans, NT Gold, Canaanites, etc) and themes that need just a couple cards to fill in the gaps (TGT, Disciples, etc) should be focused on this set. Next set, take two themes that are bad or only semi-established (Syrians, Sadducees, Deacons, etc) and give them the same treatment Disciples got last year, only balanced.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master KChief on April 30, 2012, 03:19:13 PM
Blue does not have a solid theme in NT. There will more than likely be a blue NT theme in the future.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 30, 2012, 03:27:12 PM
Blue does not have a solid theme in NT. There will more than likely be a blue NT theme in the future.

Despite rumors (that may be fact) that Rob doesn't like the idea?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on April 30, 2012, 03:31:45 PM
Since people believe that if disciple are one of the 4 offenses in the starters this year and believe that a Peter, Andrew, John repint will be done I would like to see what people believe the John reprint will be. I have already made a Andrew and Peter reprint with a couple enhancement's made around Fishing Boat.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: lp670sv on April 30, 2012, 03:35:45 PM
Blue does not have a solid theme in NT. There will more than likely be a blue NT theme in the future.

Despite rumors (that may be fact) that Rob doesn't like the idea?

He may not like it but if they pick a new theme and blue is the only brigade they can justify fitting it in I think he'd still go with it.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Drrek on April 30, 2012, 03:54:08 PM
Blue does not have a solid theme in NT. There will more than likely be a blue NT theme in the future.

Despite rumors (that may be fact) that Rob doesn't like the idea?

He may not like it but if they pick a new theme and blue is the only brigade they can justify fitting it in I think he'd still go with it.

I've heard that blue is not likely to get a N.T. theme because there is so much material to still print of Genesis, and they don't want to flood the game with blue.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on April 30, 2012, 03:55:03 PM
He may not like it but if they pick a new theme and blue is the only brigade they can justify fitting it in I think he'd still go with it.

Hence the discussion of a brand new theme. I've heard plenty of discussion about a new theme, with several Elders commenting but not confirming anything, and I've heard zero discussion of putting Deacons in blue, at least not in any official capacity. Again, this is all hearsay since I cannot point to any specific instance where an Elder has definitely said that Rob doesn't like the idea, but this is what I've gathered from various comments over the course of the last 6-7 months or so. Ultimately, if Rob says he'd rather introduce a new brigade than put Deacons in blue, then that's what will happen, and again, I'd actually prefer they just put Deacons in blue instead of creating a new brigade.

Since people believe that if disciple are one of the 4 offenses in the starters this year and believe that a Peter, Andrew, John repint will be done I would like to see what people believe the John reprint will be. I have already made a Andrew and Peter reprint with a couple enhancement's made around Fishing Boat.

Any reprints Disciples get this set won't have any complicated abilities. It's entirely possible that John will retain his current special ability and just be given green (and perhaps white, to fit him into TGT) as an additional brigade. They have to be careful here, since if they do change John's ability, it has to be something that is powerful enough to justify using him over the current John (who's spectacular), but not so much that he's overpowered. My guess is John's current ability with new brigades and a "Negate play abilities". Andrew and Peter are the ones that need real special abilities, though I could easily see them both given generic "easy-to-swallow" abilities, with Andrew probably banding to Peter (or doing something else involving Peter) and Peter perhaps even just banding to a Disciple.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Gabe on April 30, 2012, 04:00:15 PM
I can confirm that blue will remain focused on Genesis heroes. There are no plans to introduce a NT theme for blue since there are dozens of new and reprintable Gensis heroes.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: browarod on April 30, 2012, 04:06:45 PM
Something that people should keep in mind is that the set is a starter deck, so while it's entirely possible to make cards that support a theme overall, they still have to be self-sufficient decks in and of themselves. I doubt there are going to be any cards in there (if a Disciples offense is part of it) that deal directly with Fishing Boat, I doubt any demon defense would directly reference Gates of Hell. Thinking back to the G/H decks, Priscilla bands to Aquila (who is not present in the deck), but is otherwise still a white female hero that can be used for rescues. Apprehended is the only card that can't directly do anything with what you have in the deck (though it can be played on Temple Guard after Love of Money, so it's still usable).

All this talk of Disciples reprints and John/Revelation stuff just made me feel the need to mention this. :P
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master KChief on April 30, 2012, 04:08:42 PM
Maybe they're putting a reprint of Fishing Boat in the deck. ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red Wing on April 30, 2012, 04:10:01 PM
Maybe they're putting a reprint of Fishing Boat in the deck. ;)
With the identifier: "Cannot be discarded."
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: STAMP on April 30, 2012, 04:16:26 PM
Maybe they're putting a reprint of Fishing Boat in the deck. ;)
With the identifier: "Cannot be discarded."

If only...

{sigh}
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Gabe on April 30, 2012, 04:21:47 PM
Maybe they're putting a reprint of Fishing Boat in the deck. ;)
With the identifier: "Cannot be discarded."

Close. It actually says "unsinkable".
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red on April 30, 2012, 04:27:15 PM
I can confirm that blue will remain focused on Genesis heroes. There are no plans to introduce a NT theme for blue since there are dozens of new and reprintable Gensis heroes.
In truth Genesis would really be scrapeing the bottom of the barrel on heroes that are *Relevant* at this point after reprinting about 4-5 heroes. (This is just my opinion)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on April 30, 2012, 04:30:19 PM
Well at this point, thanks to Gabe we are back to looking at Grey and White which I would be extreamly happy to see in the new starter decks.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master KChief on April 30, 2012, 04:52:08 PM
I can confirm that blue will remain focused on Genesis heroes. There are no plans to introduce a NT theme for blue since there are dozens of new and reprintable Gensis heroes.
In truth Genesis would really be scrapeing the bottom of the barrel on heroes that are *Relevant* at this point after reprinting about 4-5 heroes. (This is just my opinion)

Which is why Blue will be forced to expand to different themes. It has already become the epitome of non-creative deck construction by putting that aspect on auto-pilot.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: STAMP on April 30, 2012, 05:01:24 PM
Well at this point, thanks to Gabe we are back to looking at Grey and White which I would be extreamly happy to see in the new starter decks.

Great theme for us ol' geezers.  ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: jbeers285 on April 30, 2012, 05:36:27 PM
What about persians? Or greeks? Alot of charachter types/factions need some serious firepower that they are missing.

I could go for greeks and persians getting a boost . . . i like the persians but as a theme they are two weak to stand with out gomer, haman, haman's plot perhaps KoT amakelite slave AND so on and so on
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: MitchRobStew on May 01, 2012, 11:12:14 PM
So if disciple are half of one of the starters what offense do you think would be the  most likely pairing?  Green (with a duel colored (green/purple peter/john) with N.T. prophets, gold (Luke/John)?  Would the disciples be reprinted w/ new numbers?  If white were the other offense would the white portion be magicians?  I'm personally questioning whether they would make 1/2 of the other starter magicians since I don't think it would be popular enough to draw in new buyers.   What do you think would be a likely pairing for the white offense?  What brigades do you feel the defenses will entail (outside of orange, and gray).  What gray defense do you feel it will include (Pharisees, Syrians, Emperors)? 
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 01, 2012, 11:24:28 PM
I'm pretty sure there will be no other important Green cards because of the hints that were put out. Same with Pale Green.

I doubt they would add more to Pharisees because they are already really good. It's between Romans and Syrians, also, why does everyone assume that the only Romans that are Gray will be only Emperors? I'm just throwing that out there, most other civilizations have there entire civilization in the proper color when they are reprinted.

I'm mostly expecting, White, Purple (possibly), Teal, & Gold (maybe) for Good brigades.
For Evil, I'm expecting: Gray, Orange, Black (maybe), and Brown (again possibly)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master Q on May 02, 2012, 01:08:30 AM
I've heard that blue is not likely to get a N.T. theme because there is so much material to still print of Genesis, and they don't want to flood the game with blue.

They just want to flood blue with Genesis, which wouldn't get old at all. ::)

On topic, I'm hoping to see some N.T. Red/Purple (or Gold) with Syrians+Persians in one deck, Teal/Musicians with Demons+Greeks/Heretics (or Magicians) in the other. Reprints of Priestly Breastplate, Miraculous Handkerchiefs, Cross Beams o' the Cross, and Solomon's Temple would be most welcome. But that sounds really complicated for starter decks, that sounds more like the start of theme decks... 
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: jbeers285 on May 02, 2012, 01:30:52 AM
I think Purple/Green disicple reprints and Red/Purple NT would be sweet and id love to see persians become an admirable defense
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Minister Polarius on May 02, 2012, 03:42:13 AM
Where is all this talk of a John reprint coming from? If Disciples are, in fact, getting reprinted, it would seem much more likely for James to get a reprint than his already-top-tier brother.

As for Genesis, we still have Abraham, Isaac, Sarah, Rebecca, Noah and his kin, Enoch, quite a few of the Patriarchs, Seth, Abel, Adam, Phill Collins and Peter Gabriel before even getting into obscure things like the line of Seth and things like Abram's Army.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 02, 2012, 03:26:26 PM
Because John is supposed to be Purple/Green, and there is a good chance to see him work more towards a Prophet Deck then the current one. I'm hoping for a James the Greater reprint too.

I just can't wait to see whats in there, no matter what will be in there. I just hope it will be useful.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 02, 2012, 04:15:59 PM
Where is all this talk of a John reprint coming from? If Disciples are, in fact, getting reprinted, it would seem much more likely for James to get a reprint than his already-top-tier brother.
I agree with this, but the Disciples set surprised me with a Gabriel reprint, so I don't know what to expect now.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: KingLeo on May 02, 2012, 04:50:09 PM
Here is a random idea(not meaning to spam) but how about some new colors!

KingLeo 8)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red Wing on May 02, 2012, 04:55:52 PM
Here is a random idea(not meaning to spam) but how about some new colors!

KingLeo 8)
Pink-purple-polka-dot brigade!
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Scoobug on May 02, 2012, 04:57:25 PM
Here is a random idea(not meaning to spam) but how about some new colors!

KingLeo 8)

That wouldn't be very logistical considering that they couldn't use enhancements from previous sets, so they would have to use only enhancements from their set, which would mean it wouldn't have very many cards.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 03, 2012, 08:40:04 AM
Yeah, the best type of expansion in which to add a new brigade is a booster, for its size and freedom of design.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 04, 2012, 09:53:11 PM
Hopefully the decks will also be released in a gift set that has a cool promo like Nicholas of Antioch or NJ...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 04, 2012, 10:10:38 PM
Hopefully the decks will also be released in a gift set that has a cool promo like Nicholas of Antioch or NJ...
Just an idea that this sparked: What if there were tins that came with more than just a promo? Like, packs of ten cards, of which there are 3 different types, for 30 extra cards in the set. The biggest problem I can see with this is that most people really do not want to buy multiple copies of starter decks. It could boost sales some, but maybe no more than would a single promo.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on May 04, 2012, 11:00:21 PM
It sounds like almost every competitive player will be buying the new set anyways for the upgraded Dom and likely David reprint.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 05, 2012, 12:32:01 AM
I don't think there is going to be a David reprint. I think it would be cool if they made a tin with a Cool Promo and with more packs kinda like how Yugioh does their tins or maybe have a cooler SE Tin w/ multiple Promos (like u get one of 3 Promos per SE set)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: browarod on May 05, 2012, 09:41:50 AM
Quote from: Redemption CCG Facebook Page
We have been developing and playtesting the new 4th Edition Redemption Starter Decks for months. We were on schedule to have new cards at the Redemption National Tournament in Knoxville in mid August. However, new licensing agreements with Hasbro to produce Cranium and Scrabble in Bible Editions require that we delay the 4th Edition for a couple of months. The good news is that we will have more time to playtest. Thank you for your patience.

/cry
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red on May 05, 2012, 09:43:18 AM
Quote from: Redemption CCG Facebook Page
We have been developing and playtesting the new 4th Edition Redemption Starter Decks for months. We were on schedule to have new cards at the Redemption National Tournament in Knoxville in mid August. However, new licensing agreements with Hasbro to produce Cranium and Scrabble in Bible Editions require that we delay the 4th Edition for a couple of months. The good news is that we will have more time to playtest. Thank you for your patience.

/cry
Well.... why don't they use the extra time to just start on the next set?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red Wing on May 05, 2012, 09:58:39 AM
Quote from: Redemption CCG Facebook Page
We have been developing and playtesting the new 4th Edition Redemption Starter Decks for months. We were on schedule to have new cards at the Redemption National Tournament in Knoxville in mid August. However, new licensing agreements with Hasbro to produce Cranium and Scrabble in Bible Editions require that we delay the 4th Edition for a couple of months. The good news is that we will have more time to playtest. Thank you for your patience.

/cry
Well.... why don't they use the extra time to just start on the next set?
Or make foil starter decks!
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on May 05, 2012, 11:32:19 AM
I am horribly conflicted on this...since we hear all about how this starter is going to address issues of the current meta, and then we have to delay new releases of original content for a biblical themed version of two very popular games...I know the economy is bad, but if there is only a starter (which can't be overly complicated as stated before) then I am unsure the future direction of this game. Also, why was this message put on Facebook (which few know about) rather than on the boards (where most of us reside)? It appears slightly devious....What does it say to those not on the boards that the new set will not be available for purchase at Nationals in favor of two unrelated games? In other words, what are the main player base who has supported Cactus since near its inception going to get for catering to those that are just buying variant board games? I really don't know what to think anymore...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: I am Knot a Blonde! on May 05, 2012, 11:43:47 AM
I am horribly conflicted on this...since we hear all about how this starter is going to address issues of the current meta, and then we have to delay new releases of original content for a biblical themed version of two very popular games...I know the economy is bad, but if there is only a starter (which can't be overly complicated as stated before) then I am unsure the future direction of this game. Also, why was this message put on Facebook (which few know about) rather than on the boards (where most of us reside)? It appears slightly devious....What does it say to those not on the boards that the new set will not be available for purchase at Nationals in favor of two unrelated games? In other words, what are the main player base who has supported Cactus since near its inception going to get for catering to those that are just buying variant board games? I really don't know what to think anymore...

Agreed.

My questions is, if they are not going to sell the starter packs at nats, what are they going to sell? Just old stuff?

Personally, i think this is a bad move by Rob. From what i've been able to tell, Nats is their most profitable convention, because of them selling all of the new cards. Now, i believe that very little people are going to buy product at Nats. Now we are just going to have to buy them online..? Lame.

I guess this is just going to be one of those dissapointing years... Even though we have been waiting a whole year to get the cards...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: lp670sv on May 05, 2012, 12:26:08 PM
Overreactions have been made.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on May 05, 2012, 01:34:28 PM
Well.... why don't they use the extra time to just start on the next set?
[/quote]

You can't playtest a set with a new set not even out yet. They won't have a good enough idea of what needs to be taken care of.

I am horribly conflicted on this...since we hear all about how this starter is going to address issues of the current meta, and then we have to delay new releases of original content for a biblical themed version of two very popular games...I know the economy is bad, but if there is only a starter (which can't be overly complicated as stated before) then I am unsure the future direction of this game. Also, why was this message put on Facebook (which few know about) rather than on the boards (where most of us reside)? It appears slightly devious....What does it say to those not on the boards that the new set will not be available for purchase at Nationals in favor of two unrelated games? In other words, what are the main player base who has supported Cactus since near its inception going to get for catering to those that are just buying variant board games? I really don't know what to think anymore...

I think implying that them having posted on Facebook before the actual boards being deviant is a bit much, don't you think Brad?

Agreed.

My questions is, if they are not going to sell the starter packs at nats, what are they going to sell? Just old stuff?

Personally, i think this is a bad move by Rob. From what i've been able to tell, Nats is their most profitable convention, because of them selling all of the new cards. Now, i believe that very little people are going to buy product at Nats. Now we are just going to have to buy them online..? Lame.

I guess this is just going to be one of those dissapointing years... Even though we have been waiting a whole year to get the cards...

It can't be a bad move for Rob. Again, board games make much more money than Redemption does.

Redemption players seem to be really underprivileged if they're doubting the future of the game because the new set won't be released for two months.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Prof Underwood on May 05, 2012, 01:35:28 PM
what are the main player base who has supported Cactus since near its inception going to get for catering to those that are just buying variant board games?
You are correct that at the Redemption player base has supported Cactus over the years, and 15 years ago were the primary revenue stream for the company.  But from what I've heard, Redemption is now only supplying a fraction of the profits to Cactus, and these other game licenses are bringing in the bulk of the profits now, and require very little time and energy to support.  So when Rob has a chance to bring 2 more big name games into his company, he's got to go for that from a business sense.

I understand the frustration with having to patient a while longer.  I too would've liked to have had the new cards come out at Nats.  But at the same time, what is good for Cactus is good for Redemption in the long run.  So I hope that people can choose to see the big picture here.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Professoralstad on May 05, 2012, 02:08:33 PM
Also, the more time the playtesters have to test cards, the less likely we're likely to make another Thaddeus-like change last minute. There are a few cards that need to be thoroughly vetted because the abilities will be unlike anything that has been seen before, so we need to ensure that they won't be broken/abusive.

Also, the modified release schedule is good for players who won't get a chance to get to Nationals, since everyone will be able to get the new set at the same time, and players who don't get a chance to get to Nats aren't at a disadvantage to players who did in the first few tournaments of the next season.

Yes, it's disappointing that we won't get to see the new cards at Nats, but I hope that players can understand that it is in fact better for Cactus this year.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 05, 2012, 02:21:49 PM
I think of all types of expansions, the late-coming of a starter deck would probably have the least severe effect on Nats attendance, since the only official category in which a starter deck can be used is the overall least favorite: sealed deck.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on May 05, 2012, 02:34:56 PM
I think of all types of expansions, the late-coming of a starter deck would probably have the least severe effect on Nats attendance, since the only official category in which a starter deck can be used is the overall least favorite: sealed deck.

I don't think it makes a difference either way. Only a small handful of people actually manage to get complete sets from the tins, which leads me to believe that not many people are being motivated by the new cards.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master KChief on May 05, 2012, 02:54:45 PM
Stinks for TN. One of the biggest reasons to go to Nats was early access to the new cards.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: CactusRob on May 05, 2012, 03:12:18 PM
I truly appreciate the support of the Redemption fan base.  My goal is to continue to release new Redemption products and support it for as long as possible.  That being said, I thought it would be helpful to share some additional information.

1)  All Redemption items added together make up less than 10% of our revenues these days.  Even so, the Lord is using this game in a number of ways and I want to support it as a minstry tool if for no other reason.  Moreover, many of my best friendships have developed because of Redemption.  I think others here can say the same.  So, know that I am committed to keeping the game going.

2)  The Christian stores that stock the new Redemption items normally do not bring it in until October even though it may be available sooner.  Releasing the set at Nationals helps make Nationals special but, it is not a big deal for Cactus from a revenue standpoint.

3)  Annoucing this on facebook did not mean too much from my point of view.  I was just trying to support the Redemption page there and knew it would be minutes from the facebook post before the discussion crossed over here... and it did.  :)

4)  Games like Apples to Apples, Taboo and now Cranium and Scrabble  pay the bills.  This in turn allows me to release new Redemption sets and support the game.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: browarod on May 05, 2012, 03:25:50 PM
I was just trying to support the Redemption page there and knew it would be minutes from the facebook post before the discussion crossed over here... and it did.  :)
*feels used*

Used in a good way, though, so I'm okay with that. :P
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Wings of Music on May 05, 2012, 05:08:00 PM
Props to you Rob for making a good business decision.  As long as you make good business descisions Redemption will stay strong.  Even though some people may not like your choice you made the right one. 

Blessings,

Wings  :)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: STAMP on May 05, 2012, 08:28:38 PM
Thank you, Rob!  For so many reasons, but especially since you provided that new Fishing Boat for me.  I'll be around as long as the game is.  :)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: EmJayBee83 on May 06, 2012, 01:10:34 AM
Quote from: Redemption CCG Facebook Page
We have been developing and playtesting the new 4th Edition Redemption Starter Decks for months. We were on schedule to have new cards at the Redemption National Tournament in Knoxville in mid August. However, new licensing agreements with Hasbro to produce Cranium and Scrabble in Bible Editions require that we delay the 4th Edition for a couple of months. The good news is that we will have more time to playtest. Thank you for your patience.
What precisely would make a version of Scrabble a Bible edition?

You can only use words found in the Bible? (He's right, "firkins" *is* used in John 2:6.)
The tiles are printed in Hebrew lettering?  (Gimel, gimel, gimel... C'mon gimel.  Aww samekh.)
The board uses Biblical phrasing? (Thou mayest tripleth thy score of thine letter.)

Since I would guess that Rob may not be at liberty to discuss this, feel free to offer your suggestions...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master KChief on May 06, 2012, 03:26:03 AM
I was seriously wondering the same thing.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on May 06, 2012, 11:11:50 AM
 :offtopic: haha but my best guess is mabey on like a triple word score or other bonus squares you would only get the bonus if you played a Biblical word, although what counts as a Biblical word?


On Topic

Also, the more time the playtesters have to test cards, the less likely we're likely to make another Thaddeus-like change last minute. There are a few cards that need to be thoroughly vetted because the abilities will be unlike anything that has been seen before, so we need to ensure that they won't be broken/abusive.


Ok, new abilities sound great! But.. How are we going to teach them to new players if we arn't even sure what they do :)

I'm wondering what they could be because new players will need to understand them fairly quickly. (and I'm not saying a simple ability is bad, take discard. It makes perfect sense and is still usefull 8)) but seriously, what kind of ability do you guys think it could be?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: STAMP on May 06, 2012, 11:21:22 AM
In 9th grade I designed a game called, Mythabble.  Yes, it was based on mythology - primarily Greek and Roman as that was what was the subject material in class.  I took a huge sample of words, names, place, etc. and calculated the letter distribution and letter scores.  Words that were NOT related to mythology only scored one point per letter and did not receive special double and triple scoring.  That was it.  Pretty basic.  I used an old Monopoly board, and believe it or not Schaef, no families were destroyed in my 9th grade class!  ;)   I was told that many classes after ours enjoyed playing the game.

Anyone play Klingon Scrabble?  ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red Wing on May 06, 2012, 11:25:15 AM
I'm wondering what they could be because new players will need to understand them fairly quickly. (and I'm not saying a simple ability is bad, take discard. It makes perfect sense and is still usefull 8)) but seriously, what kind of ability do you guys think it could be?
More ripping cards!
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: browarod on May 06, 2012, 12:35:47 PM
NEW INFORMATION!!!!

Quote from: Browa's Source
Rob wanted some super well-known heroes in the starters this year.  Players have already guessed Peter and Andrew, and there are a couple more VERY well-known heroes from that theme in that deck.  Those are the only human heroes in that deck.  :)

Since we wanted the starter decks to be very simple, we have included some characters in each deck that do not have special abilities.  There are 3 O.T. heroes with no special abilities in the starter decks - all in the same brigade.  Two of those are very well-known Bible characters.  But not having special abilities might actually be seen as a benefit in that theme.  The second good theme in that deck is a secret.

Oh, and there are more than 100 cards being printed this year. 
So Peter and Andrew reprints are confirmed, but given the other heroes from "that theme" that my source mentioned I wonder if it will be a Disciples theme boost or a Martyr theme boost. I can't think of any other heroes from Disciples (except the contested Matthias) who need reprints, and certainly not the multiples this seems to suggest.

Also, the "only human heroes" comment makes me assume Di/Martyrs (whichever theme it ends up being) is going to get some angel support.

Any guesses as to the 3 OT heroes with no SA in the other deck? I had first thought Judges (newer version of Gideon, perhaps) due to the "better in that theme" comment, but they don't really need any help at this point in the game, so I'm not sure. I kinda hope there's some teal in there.

Given that the Peter/Andrew deck has human heroes only in that theme, that pretty much confirms that the other deck's White cards will be either Musicians or Daniel heroes (or both, you never know), so I'm super excited for that.

>100 cards? Super woot. I wonder if this means the decks will cost more....
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: lp670sv on May 06, 2012, 01:01:04 PM
*waits for edited by R.O.S.E.S.*
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: browarod on May 06, 2012, 01:16:26 PM
I realized after posting earlier that the "more than 100 cards being printed" could also mean that the decks are still 50 cards each but that there are new promos. I would love there to be new promos, but the bigger decks would be cool, too.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master KChief on May 06, 2012, 06:35:45 PM
New promos, but probably won't get them until next year. At least for the Nats promo. Wasn't Daniel printed two sets ago but just given to use last year?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on May 06, 2012, 08:01:04 PM
New promos, but probably won't get them until next year. At least for the Nats promo. Wasn't Daniel printed two sets ago but just given to use last year?

Yeah, Daniel (along with Goliath and any other promos I'm forgetting) was printed with Disciples.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 06, 2012, 08:47:59 PM
Sweet! Angels are back! The #1 Theme I can think of that would currently get bonuses for No-effects are Judges... Oh no, Plz no more Judges...

I wonder if there will be new support for John in there?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red on May 06, 2012, 09:03:22 PM
That's obv not right guys.... it's still here.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on May 06, 2012, 09:24:16 PM
That's obv not right guys.... it's still here.

Wait, what?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on May 06, 2012, 10:30:20 PM
Stinks for TN. One of the biggest reasons to go to Nats was early access to the new cards.

I wholeheartedly agree. The only NATS I'll be able to attend and I WON'T GET ANY OF THE NEW GOODIES! (Turns to nearest wall and kicks it.)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: lp670sv on May 06, 2012, 10:44:21 PM
That's obv not right guys.... it's still here.

Wait, what?
gonna have to agree the post hasnt become "EDITED BY ROSES" yet. so its probably not real spoiler
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on May 06, 2012, 10:50:19 PM
Oh, you mean I'm supposed to actually pay attention to posts about the set again.... This is always my least favorite time of the year - I can only Edit by Roses so many times before I get tired of it.

Especially when edits are needed where I don't have mod powers.

But hey, To each his own - If you guys like it, bring it on ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Professoralstad on May 06, 2012, 11:16:12 PM
NEW INFORMATION!!!!

Quote from: Browa's Source
Rob wanted some super well-known heroes in the starters this year.  Players have already guessed Peter and Andrew, and there are a couple more VERY well-known heroes from that theme in that deck.  Those are the only human heroes in that deck.  :)

Since we wanted the starter decks to be very simple, we have included some characters in each deck that do not have special abilities.  There are 3 O.T. heroes with no special abilities in the starter decks - all in the same brigade.  Two of those are very well-known Bible characters.  But not having special abilities might actually be seen as a benefit in that theme.  The second good theme in that deck is a secret.

Oh, and there are more than 100 cards being printed this year. 
So Peter and Andrew reprints are confirmed, but given the other heroes from "that theme" that my source mentioned I wonder if it will be a Disciples theme boost or a Martyr theme boost. I can't think of any other heroes from Disciples (except the contested Matthias) who need reprints, and certainly not the multiples this seems to suggest.

Also, the "only human heroes" comment makes me assume Di/Martyrs (whichever theme it ends up being) is going to get some angel support.

Any guesses as to the 3 OT heroes with no SA in the other deck? I had first thought Judges (newer version of Gideon, perhaps) due to the "better in that theme" comment, but they don't really need any help at this point in the game, so I'm not sure. I kinda hope there's some teal in there.

Given that the Peter/Andrew deck has human heroes only in that theme, that pretty much confirms that the other deck's White cards will be either Musicians or Daniel heroes (or both, you never know), so I'm super excited for that.

>100 cards? Super woot. I wonder if this means the decks will cost more....

I demand that you reveal your source, or you will be held in contempt... >:(
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Bryon on May 06, 2012, 11:54:39 PM
His source will be slapped on the wrist right now.

*slaps*

Ouch.  OK.  Punishment given (and received).
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: lp670sv on May 06, 2012, 11:58:16 PM
ooooo Bryon leaked info
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: YourMathTeacher on May 07, 2012, 12:01:53 AM
ooooo Bryon leaked info

Am I supposed to be shocked?  Bryon leaks more than Julian Assange.  ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Bryon on May 07, 2012, 12:05:14 AM
ooooo Bryon leaked info
It is one of my favorite things to do.  And I'm going to have a hard time holding back info for a couple extra months.  I tried duct tape on my mouth, but that doesn't do much to stop my typing - unless I have serious nasal congestion, which makes duct tape over the mouth especially good at stopping me from doing pretty much anything.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: robm on May 07, 2012, 12:12:02 AM
Speaking of promos, with the 115 disciple there were five promos.  120 cards total.  So if the two sheets of cards comes to 120 then there is possibly room to print either 20 new promos, some promos with duplicates of other cards such as Son of God, or an excessive amount of a same few promo cards, etc.  I will say I am excited to for the new promo cards to come out whatever they might be. 
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on May 07, 2012, 12:18:50 AM
Well I could see an extra windows of narrow light being tossed in to make those (assuming judges) no Sa characters useable in a starter deck.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Gabe on May 07, 2012, 12:58:03 AM
Two 56 card starter decks = 112, plus 8 new promos (National, Regional, States, District x2, Local x 2 and a new tournament winner card). That could account for 120 new cards.

...that's strictly speculation of course, based the possibility of the same print run as Disciples.  ::)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Jmbeers on May 07, 2012, 01:00:56 AM
It would be really nice to start getting some new promos. And finally some card were actually happy to win!  ::)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: robm on May 07, 2012, 01:03:02 AM
yeah I am excited about that card



... wait what winner card was printed with disciple? cuz i thought it was 115 not 112 but its one in the moring for me so idk what im saying right now
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: lp670sv on May 07, 2012, 01:08:30 AM
It would be really nice to start getting some new promos. And finally some card were actually happy to win!  ::)
Pretty sure I have more harvest times than lost souls
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on May 07, 2012, 09:03:34 AM
I could easily see NJ being the new tourney winner...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on May 07, 2012, 12:02:51 PM
I could easily see NJ being the new tourney winner...

I spent maybe a minute scratching my head at this before I realized you didn't mean New Jersey.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: lp670sv on May 07, 2012, 12:15:56 PM
I could easily see NJ being the new tourney winner...

I spent maybe a minute scratching my head at this before I realized you didn't mean New Jersey.

New Jersey
Fortress
SA: Any card containing the letters GTL consecutively is immediately placed here. May hold up to 5 evil characters that nobody wants. Restrict holder from intelligent thought. If any card mentioning decency or intelligence is played, throw this card and it's contents in to the nearest fire. Cannot Be Negated.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on May 07, 2012, 12:41:14 PM
I wonder if Angel of Deliverance will be getting redone in the deck for angel support since it is confirmed that Peter, Andrew, X, and Y are the only human Heroes in one of the Decks so there has be 4 Angel that are some what related to the Disciples/ X and Y.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 07, 2012, 04:31:46 PM
I could easily see NJ being the new tourney winner...

The NEW New Jerusalem

Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Play this card simultaneously with the Son of God card and rescue any additional Lost Soul in play. If not played simultaneously with Son of God, FBTN. All abilities in battle are negated.

Was my Bro's idea.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Drrek on May 07, 2012, 04:34:13 PM
I could easily see NJ being the new tourney winner...

The NEW New Jerusalem

Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Play this card simultaneously with the Son of God card and rescue any additional Lost Soul in play. If not played simultaneously with Son of God, FBTN. All abilities in battle are negated.

Was my Bro's idea.

New J doesn't need a power boost, and this could be a very high power boost for it in games where you lose SoG (or in type II where you are less likely to get both), since it would make a CBN FBTN battle.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 07, 2012, 04:40:21 PM
I could easily see NJ being the new tourney winner...

The NEW New Jerusalem

Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Play this card simultaneously with the Son of God card and rescue any additional Lost Soul in play. If not played simultaneously with Son of God, all abilities in battle are negated.

Was my Bro's idea.

New J doesn't need a power boost, and this could be a very high power boost for it in games where you lose SoG (or in type II where you are less likely to get both), since it would make a CBN FBTN battle.

Since when did I say CBN? Edit: not FBTN anymore.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Drrek on May 07, 2012, 04:45:48 PM
I could easily see NJ being the new tourney winner...

The NEW New Jerusalem

Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Play this card simultaneously with the Son of God card and rescue any additional Lost Soul in play. If not played simultaneously with Son of God, all abilities in battle are negated.

Was my Bro's idea.

New J doesn't need a power boost, and this could be a very high power boost for it in games where you lose SoG (or in type II where you are less likely to get both), since it would make a CBN FBTN battle.

Since when did I say CBN? Edit: not FBTN anymore.

Dominants are always CBN
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 07, 2012, 06:24:18 PM
I love that New Jersey card! Lets make it!
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Minion of Jesus on May 08, 2012, 08:10:27 AM
I could easily see NJ being the new tourney winner...

The NEW New Jerusalem

Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Play this card simultaneously with the Son of God card and rescue any additional Lost Soul in play. If not played simultaneously with Son of God, all abilities in battle are negated.

Was my Bro's idea.

New J doesn't need a power boost, and this could be a very high power boost for it in games where you lose SoG (or in type II where you are less likely to get both), since it would make a CBN FBTN battle.

Since when did I say CBN? Edit: not FBTN anymore.

Dominants are always CBN

Aha, silly me...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Minister Polarius on May 09, 2012, 01:59:38 PM
I'm guessing that the no SA cards may be Teal, given that Windows of Narrow Light gives protection to no-SA Heroes. This would mean either Tabernacle or Solomon's Temple reprinted (likely the latter since most Tabernacle Priests are already playable) that perhaps further benefits no-SA Heroes.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on May 09, 2012, 02:02:16 PM
I'm guessing that the no SA cards may be Teal, given that Windows of Narrow Light gives protection to no-SA Heroes. This would mean either Tabernacle or Solomon's Temple reprinted (likely the latter since most Tabernacle Priests are already playable) that perhaps further benefits no-SA Heroes.
+1
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on May 09, 2012, 02:07:11 PM
I was thinking this too, but what well known priests are in Solomon's temple? I know Abiathar and Zadok due to Bible Bowl many moons ago covering 1st and 2nd Samuel (I used to know Sam's lineage as well for bonus points :P) Most people remember Eli because he was fat, Aaron of course, but I'm not sure what other OT priests are super well-known...I could say the same thing for musicians...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Minister Polarius on May 09, 2012, 02:21:21 PM
Haha, most of the guys you just listed are Tabernacle priests anyway. Not every character in a starter deck needs to be well-known. There are quite a few guys from the newer starter decks I've still never even heard of!
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Professoralstad on May 09, 2012, 02:23:29 PM
I was thinking this too, but what well known priests are in Solomon's temple? I know Abiathar and Zadok due to Bible Bowl many moons ago covering 1st and 2nd Samuel (I used to know Sam's lineage as well for bonus points :P) Most people remember Eli because he was fat, Aaron of course, but I'm not sure what other OT priests are super well-known...I could say the same thing for musicians...

Actually, Abiathar was only a Tabernacle Priest. He was exiled by Solomon for choosing the wrong side (he was with the party that favored Adonijah as King). Zadok may have been a temple priest since he stuck with Solomon, but I don't know if that's for sure. Aaron and Eli were definitely strictly Tabernacle priests

Probably the most well-known Solomon's Temple Priest is Jehoiada, because of his protection of Joash. Other ones (Hilkiah, Amaziah, Seraiah, etc.) are known probably mostly only to Biblical scholars and Redemption players.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on May 09, 2012, 02:37:19 PM
To clarify, I was thinking of famous priests in general based on the leak above:

(There are 3 O.T. heroes with no special abilities in the starter decks - all in the same brigade.  Two of those are very well-known Bible characters)

and I know which priests are tabernacle and which were Solomon temple, mostly (I did forget Abiathar and Solomon did not get along  ;D)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: YourMathTeacher on May 09, 2012, 03:52:24 PM
There are also several old, unused cards that reference Solomon's Temple, so it would be nice to make them useful again.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on May 13, 2012, 02:25:00 PM
I have a feeling in my gut that we're gonna get some Gold Luke/John heroes. This would be a nice addition to the game.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 13, 2012, 06:23:22 PM
I'm not so sure that the Priests would be the ones to get the no effect guys...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on May 14, 2012, 02:32:53 PM
I really doubt that NT gold will get any help cause they said that in the deck that Peter and Andrew are in that some other well known humans will be in it and the rest would be silver. The other deck will have a OT offends and NT defense
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Wings of Music on May 14, 2012, 05:26:39 PM
What conformation is there that the support brigade would be silver?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 14, 2012, 05:29:15 PM
Because they said the rest of the good side of the Deck wouldn't be Human. It may be NT Gold since there are some really cool guys there that need reprints too.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red Wing on May 14, 2012, 05:35:28 PM
How about some rainbow brigade cards? Those have been in almost every starter, and none were in the last set. ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 14, 2012, 07:08:34 PM
I'm not so sure that the Priests would be the ones to get the no effect guys...
Teal is currently the only brigade that does not have blank-face characters. If any brigade needs them, it's Teal.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 14, 2012, 11:21:14 PM
I'm not so sure that the Priests would be the ones to get the no effect guys...
Teal is currently the only brigade that does not have blank-face characters. If any brigade needs them, it's Teal.

Most 'blank-face' cards arent needed. And Teal certainly doesn't need them unless they plan on making a lot of cards that support no-effects, which could be better used elsewhere.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 15, 2012, 03:36:07 PM
Teal is currently the only good brigade (except silver?) that can't use Windows of Narrow Light, which is a little ironic.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Red Wing on May 15, 2012, 03:38:50 PM
Teal is currently the only good brigade (except silver?) that can't use Windows of Narrow Light, which is a little ironic.
Silver has some no SA characters, like this one…
Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 15, 2012, 07:59:23 PM
Silver can, but why is it Ironic that Teal can't?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Drrek on May 15, 2012, 08:01:35 PM
Silver can, but why is it Ironic that Teal can't?

Because Windows of Narrow Light is a temple artifact, and so its ironic that priests are the only group in the game that can't use it.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 15, 2012, 08:31:42 PM
Not too much... Since I would remember that most of the Temple Artifacts are actually to note to things for the Church or other symbols, so I wouldn't really call it Irony that Priests can't use a Temple Artifact.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Redoubter on May 15, 2012, 08:54:03 PM
Not too much... Since I would remember that most of the Temple Artifacts are actually to note to things for the Church or other symbols, so I wouldn't really call it Irony that Priests can't use a Temple Artifact.

...Um, the term Temple Artifact refers to pretty much all artifacts found in Solomon's Temple or Z-Temple, and even if you go Herod's Temple, those were still priests.

There are a grand total of 0 Christ artifacts that are "Temple" artifacts.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Wings of Music on May 15, 2012, 09:30:12 PM
Plus it would actually cause windows of narrow light to see some use.  In fact if some decent no-SA priests are printed it might be fun to build a gold/teal/silver deck with lots of no-SA characters.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Drrek on May 15, 2012, 09:39:53 PM
There are a grand total of 0 Christ artifacts that are "Temple" artifacts.

Well according to Hebrews, all the temple artifacts are copies of those in heaven, but even then the cards are referring to the artifacts in the temples the priests ministered at.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on May 16, 2012, 12:17:56 AM
That is true, and each of the artifacts symbolize something, Revelation notes to Incense being the example of the prayers of the saints, and thats only one example, there are several others throughout scripture.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on June 13, 2012, 08:40:38 AM
Seeing how we know that one deck will be Angels/Disciples and probabley Deacons there will be a Purple Silver enhancement in there. And If they keep the same deck building there will be an O.T. defense in this deck and then a N.T. defense in the supposed Teal/Musician offense deck.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on June 13, 2012, 09:33:20 AM
Since this thread has arisen again, is it because of the late release of the starters that Bryon hasn't completed one of his teaser articles?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on June 13, 2012, 09:44:12 AM
I am just trying to get people to get the gears turning again about what will be in it. We have confirmation that the remaining non-purple disciples will be in there and also they'll have angel support. The thing is though will they reprint some of the angels from Apostles like Angel of Deliverance. Also to start wondering about what sort of enhancements they will include in the new deck.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: YourMathTeacher on June 13, 2012, 10:12:43 AM
There will be a lot of enhancements since they are going to be Type 2 Starter Decks.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Arrthoa on June 13, 2012, 10:18:00 AM
There will be a lot of enhancements since they are going to be Type 2 Starter Decks.
where was that stated?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: YourMathTeacher on June 13, 2012, 11:45:36 AM
There will be a lot of enhancements since they are going to be Type 2 Starter Decks.
where was that stated?

Here:

There will be a lot of enhancements since they are going to be Type 2 Starter Decks.

 ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on June 13, 2012, 02:20:59 PM
Lol. How about T1 only Enhancements? They have that in the Identifer!
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: KingLeo on June 13, 2012, 02:58:40 PM
How about this.

David Harp - Artifact
Same ability as TGT except apllies to  any musician. and is protect from discard if David is in play.

also

David - White - 10-3  first strike and may band to a musician. search discard pile for David's Harp and put in play.

(this is SOOOO OP...)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Nameless on June 13, 2012, 03:27:12 PM
How about this.

David Harp - Artifact
Same ability as TGT except apllies to  any musician. and is protect from discard if David is in play.

also

David - White - 10-3  first strike and may band to a musician. search discard pile for David's Harp and put in play.

(this is SOOOO OP...)
add holds David and protests him from opponents.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Professoralstad on June 13, 2012, 03:28:50 PM
Since this thread has arisen again, is it because of the late release of the starters that Bryon hasn't completed one of his teaser articles?

Yes. The cards are still being tested/modified. I'm sure when they are finally set in stone you'll probably see some teasers.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on June 13, 2012, 03:41:15 PM
Ah...so we are thinking more of a Christmas release of the starters then....I was under the impression they were in the printing process, and just not being released due to the licensing agreements....Since normally the set goes out in April and goes live in September...Does that mean that final changes will be done in August (paused for Nationals?) before shipping?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Minion of Jesus on June 13, 2012, 04:09:08 PM
I want starters NOW!
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Bobbert on June 13, 2012, 04:16:55 PM
I want starters NOW!

Then go buy yourself a G/H deck  ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on June 13, 2012, 08:42:13 PM
I'm fine with waiting as long as I get to see some actual Angel stuff that's good.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Minion of Jesus on June 13, 2012, 09:03:30 PM
I'm fine with waiting as long as I get to see some actual Angel stuff that's good.

You would say that.

I want starters NOW!
::)

Then go buy yourself a G/H deck  ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: megamanlan on June 13, 2012, 10:51:06 PM
Yep. Not that my Angel deck needs any extra incentives to get better.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on August 13, 2012, 09:47:12 AM
Ah...so we are thinking more of a Christmas release of the starters then....I was under the impression they were in the printing process, and just not being released due to the licensing agreements....Since normally the set goes out in April and goes live in September...Does that mean that final changes will be done in August (paused for Nationals?) before shipping?

Bringing this back up since we just had a national tournament and no update on the next set...and then to see Gabe's post that the new starters are still not at the printers yet worries me...Given past history, doesn't it take 4 months to go from print to ship? It's already mid-August....and I'd like to know if we will have new starters for 1st week of December as I prepare for the upcoming season?

Just a few details? Please?
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2012, 10:05:05 AM
Ah...so we are thinking more of a Christmas release of the starters then....I was under the impression they were in the printing process, and just not being released due to the licensing agreements....Since normally the set goes out in April and goes live in September...Does that mean that final changes will be done in August (paused for Nationals?) before shipping?

Bringing this back up since we just had a national tournament and no update on the next set...and then to see Gabe's post that the new starters are still not at the printers yet worries me...Given past history, doesn't it take 4 months to go from print to ship? It's already mid-August....and I'd like to know if we will have new starters for 1st week of December as I prepare for the upcoming season?

Just a few details? Please?

Late December/Early January seems to be the current goal now.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Gabe on August 13, 2012, 12:02:14 PM
Last I heard Rob expects to send the new set to the printer in a few weeks. At Nationals he mentioned that players could expect them around the first of the year.

I know that players are excited about getting new cards ASAP but I really like the chance to see the top decks at Nationals and include some counters in the next release. We won't have to wait a year to get cards that will help change the meta.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on August 13, 2012, 12:15:51 PM
With all due respect Gabe, those in the know had access to these cards for how many months now? And did not include the input of a state who walked away with several championship titles this year (mad props to my PA brothers). I am hoping this will be considered in the future. Meanwhile we will have four months without new cards and less time for the regular players to tweak decks for the upcoming season...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Gabe on August 13, 2012, 12:22:42 PM
I don't exactly understand what you're trying to ask be considered in the future, Brad. Can you elaborate?

Missed you at Nationals btw.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2012, 12:48:01 PM
I don't exactly understand what you're trying to ask be considered in the future, Brad. Can you elaborate?

Missed you at Nationals btw.

I believe what he's saying is that the PA/MD playgroup, which picked up more championship titles than any other state this year (unless you count Type A, in which case, we tied with MN) doesn't have a single playtester, despite being perhaps the most active group on the boards outside of MN (myself, Brad, Alex, Marti, Shawn, Blake, Dayne, the Beers brothers, etc.). If I'm understanding him correctly, his complaint is that despite our active contributions and admittedly impressive display at Nats (three out of the four people we brought to Nats won a title, and the fourth won second in a category), we have zero say in the new set, which I agree is a shame.
Title: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: jbeers285 on August 13, 2012, 01:14:06 PM
I think we are at the disadvantage of not having access to the new cards for the four extra months. While MN top players are already able to see the new set. They can create new offensive combo's/plays now and by the time the rest of us catch up to these combo's they have the defense to stop them worked out as well. 

I don't mind the challenge but in all honesty MN has some level of advantage.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: YourMathTeacher on August 13, 2012, 01:19:43 PM
What's with the MN bashing?  :o

FWIW, Florida has no playtesters and we rock, too! If we had been at NATS we would have spanked y'all (or some other stereotypical one-up phrase).  ;)

The bottom line here is that Cactus has higher priorities at the moment. As much as we like to think Cactus revolves around us, Rob has already made it clear that he makes little to no profit off Redemption. The board games pay his bills, which means they have priority.

We will have the new set around, or just after, the holidays. I always buy my Christmas presents after Christmas anyway, when they're cheaper.  ;D
Title: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: jbeers285 on August 13, 2012, 01:24:48 PM
Not trying to bash MN at all just to say the some of the best players are seeing the new set months before us. It just adds to the difficulty of compete with top tier players
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2012, 01:29:39 PM
The bottom line here is that Cactus has higher priorities at the moment. As much as we like to think Cactus revolves around us, Rob has already made it clear that he makes little to no profit off Redemption. The board games pay his bills, which means they have priority.

We will have the new set around, or just after, the holidays. I always buy my Christmas presents after Christmas anyway, when they're cheaper.  ;D

While there are definitely complaints about the new set being delayed, I think most people understand why that is, even if they're not happy about it. However, that's not really the issue at hand here. All of the Elders have access to the new set right now, and it just happens that most of those Elders (Jordan, Gabe, Earley, Underwood, etc) are solid players. It's also very true that several non-playtesters, mostly in MN (due to the concentration of Elders there), also have access to the new cards right now. While I'm not overly annoyed by it and while I'm not convinced there's an advantage at top tournaments (four months is more than enough time to build decks, in my opinion), it does seem a little unfair to the rest of us, especially to the playgroup that just made a strong showing at Nats and has more than a few active members.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Alex_Olijar on August 13, 2012, 01:58:00 PM
I disagree with pretty much every post that the PA group has made here, fwiw.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Captain Kirk on August 13, 2012, 02:10:08 PM
There are a good number of good players all over the country who do not have access to the new cards and will not until they are released. I don't see a reason to automatically make national winners privy to new set information before anyone else. I am glad the PA group did well - don't get me wrong - but Rob will decide when to release the car information to everyone, whether it is before the set releases or not he will decide.

Also I would argue that getting new cards in January gives players plenty of time to make great decks for the big tourneys. In college I wouldn't play after nationals until April or so and I would still consistently win regionals and place at nationals.

And no I have not seen/heard any information about the new set besides what is posted in this thread. And neither have quite a few others that have done extremely well the past couple of seasons in Ohio and Wisconsin, the last two Redemption states I have lived in.

Kirk
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2012, 02:12:29 PM
For what it's worth, I was under the impression more people in the MN playgroups got access to the new cards. This view has since been corrected, so I rescind my original arguments, though I still think the playtester base should be expanded.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Captain Kirk on August 13, 2012, 02:19:06 PM
That is fair Chris - thank you for your post.

I would also agree it would be a helpful thing if there were one representative from many playgroups across the country who were approached about cards weigh in. Different regions see different decks and strategies.

Kirk
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: TechnoEthicist on August 13, 2012, 02:22:45 PM
That is fair Chris - thank you for your post.

I would also agree it would be a helpful thing if there were one representative from many playgroups across the country who were approached about cards weigh in. Different regions see different decks and strategies.

Kirk

Before this gets off on tangent that I was not meaning to take it down, this was my claim. That was all. All other comments have been responded to with PM to prevent further derail, apologies...
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2012, 02:23:33 PM
That is fair Chris - thank you for your post.

I would also agree it would be a helpful thing if there were one representative from many playgroups across the country who were approached about cards weigh in. Different regions see different decks and strategies.

Kirk

I agree, and would encourage you to post your comments in Westy's thread in Off-Topic. I'm also going to have to ask you to take down your sig. ;)
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Mr.Hiatus on August 13, 2012, 02:27:05 PM
I like Kirk's last post, but this other one, is one a little out there.
d
Quote
espite being perhaps the most active group on the boards outside of MN (myself, Brad, Alex, Marti, Shawn, Blake, Dayne, the Beers brothers, etc.). If I'm understanding him correctly, his complaint is that despite our active contributions and admittedly impressive display at Nats (three out of the four people we brought to Nats won a title, and the fourth won second in a category), we have zero say in the new set, which I agree is a shame.
So one good year at Nationals and PA guys should have access to the new set? Yet you are complaining about MN seeing it early, now you want to? So it would only be, under your impression, PA and MN seeing the set early because you guys do better at Nationals? This is how it sounds from your standpoint. PA did great at nats, but one good year should not have a player saying they need access early because, supposedly, another state gains access early. Everyone has plenty of time, besides nothing happens till the MN T2 only anyway.  ;)
Overall, just because of a good year at Nationals, T1 MP 12 participants- T2 2P 18 participants- Booster Draft 66 participants and I am not sure where the second came from. Not taking anything away, but two of the three first place had a combine total of 30 participants, yet they had high caliber, it still makes things different, i.e. targeting in multiplayer on the more well known players.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Chris on August 13, 2012, 03:12:06 PM
Quote
So one good year at Nationals and PA guys should have access to the new set? Yet you are complaining about MN seeing it early, now you want to? So it would only be, under your impression, PA and MN seeing the set early because you guys do better at Nationals? This is how it sounds from your standpoint. PA did great at nats, but one good year should not have a player saying they need access early because, supposedly, another state gains access early. Everyone has plenty of time, besides nothing happens till the MN T2 only anyway.  ;)

Keep in mind that at the time of my post, I was under the impression that many of the MN players had access to the new set, due to the Elders in the area playtesting with them. Again, this assumption has since been corrected, so I rescinded my argument. However, my argument wasn't just that PA had a great showing at Nats, rather, it was that our playgroup is large and very, very active on the boards, and that last week we proved that we're not just large, but that we're skilled and know the game quite well. My argument (again, keeping in mind that I was under the impression most of the MN saw the new set) was that we're just as entitled to seeing the new set as MN players, despite not having any Elders in our area.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: hi123 on August 13, 2012, 07:19:46 PM
 I know Im getting in on this thread late, but I think Deacons and Demons need supa help.

Deacons/ Elders: We have a couple of deacons, but no enhancements to help them. We also have Elders of the City, with no cards to help them. I think A combo of deacons and elders would be a great idea for a starter deck.

Demons: Totally under powerd. Period. We have probably an average of 0-3 demons per type 1-2 deck. I hope that demons get some help. I think they started getting help when TxP came out and magicans would have been a good combo with demons, but after that, magicians became there own defense, leaving orange behind. Then in the disciples set, progress started! SSS stampede became a battle winner for orange. But, still was hardly in decks because it shuffles lost souls and we had the card Nazereth, and when DI came out, Nazzy was in almost every deck, in my opinion. Then the new tins came out. And then nothing for demons, which I was actualy shocked about because I thought that would have been a good oppertunity for some good demon cards.

- Notice how I didnt mention the orange cards from the PI. set. Well, there really arent any awesome orange cards, except for KOT.

- I also didnt mention demons in type 2. Yeah, they are played a lot in type 2! BUT, why? Easy the combo of the bronze leaver and the gates of hell for super speed to gain offense.

Cards that must be reprinted sooner or later: DAVID, PETER, Mary ( Jesus' mother) , Claudia

Thats just my  :2cents:
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Lampy 2.0 on August 13, 2012, 08:26:41 PM
I'd like to see some more support for Luke/John Gold Brigade Heroes support.
Title: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: jbeers285 on August 13, 2012, 08:34:01 PM
Just to put it out there I didn't mean to upset or offend anyone either. My apologies to anyone who was frustrated or aggravated by anything I said.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master Q on August 13, 2012, 09:23:05 PM
What I want to know is why have there been NO articles on any upcoming cards? If we had a few spoilers I'm sure it would satisfy some people...
Most unorthodox.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Alex_Olijar on August 13, 2012, 09:49:01 PM
What I want to know is why have there been NO articles on any upcoming cards? If we had a few spoilers I'm sure it would satisfy some people...
Most unorthodox.

Notice the numerous posts that state the set hasn't been finalized yet.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: EmJayBee83 on August 13, 2012, 10:54:04 PM
I'd like to see some more support for Luke/John Gold Brigade Heroes support.
Yeah--maybe a draw six hero who is protected from opponents. Better yet make him protected from everything. The card could be named the Stubborn Squatter because once you put him in battle you can never take him back out. I would give him 4/20 for abilities.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Master Q on August 14, 2012, 02:16:15 AM
What I want to know is why have there been NO articles on any upcoming cards? If we had a few spoilers I'm sure it would satisfy some people...
Most unorthodox.

Notice the numerous posts that state the set hasn't been finalized yet.

Obviously the whole set is not done. But you'd think they have at least 4 finalized cards to have articles about, like they did for the previous sets, so we can get a better idea of what to expect? Maybe those will come later though.
Title: Re: New Set Brainstorming
Post by: Gabe on August 14, 2012, 09:43:47 AM
What I want to know is why have there been NO articles on any upcoming cards? If we had a few spoilers I'm sure it would satisfy some people...
Most unorthodox.

Notice the numerous posts that state the set hasn't been finalized yet.

Obviously the whole set is not done. But you'd think they have at least 4 finalized cards to have articles about, like they did for the previous sets, so we can get a better idea of what to expect? Maybe those will come later though.

Those always happen between the time the set is finalized and sent to the printer, and the release date. I'm sure Bryon will grace us with some articles once the former has happened.
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