Author Topic: New card type: Spiritual sites  (Read 2596 times)

Offline Josh

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New card type: Spiritual sites
« on: February 03, 2013, 12:28:11 PM »
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Spiritual sites are half site, half enhancement.  There will be some that are good enhancements and some that are evil enhancements.  They count has 0.5 good/evil cards in T2 or T3 decks.  They are treated as sites with special abilities for deck-building purposes, unless they have more than one color for the site; then they they are treated as multicolor sites.  And if the enhancement has more than one brigade, then they follow the rules for enhancements with more than one brigade.  And if they are both multi-enhancement and multicolor site, then the lower limit is used.

In hand or deck, they are both an enhancement and a site, and can be targeted for search as either, like Curses and Covenants. 

If they are played in battle as an enhancement, they activate the enhancement ability.  At battle resolution, when all enhancements are discarded, spiritual sites are instead placed in territory as a site.  At that point, they function as a site for the remainder of the game, and cannot function as an enhancement (unless they are reset by discard/shuffle/etc.).

If they are played in territory outside battle as a site, they function as a site.  However, they can be added to battle as an enhancement when you have normal initiative in battle with the same brigade as the enhancement.  After battle, they would return to territory (instead of being discarded) as described above, never again to enter battle as an enhancement (except for resetting events).

The first spiritual site below was my inspiration for them.  Marah was where the Israelites, traveling across the desert for 3 days, found much-needed water that was too bitter to drink.  Of course, the Israelites complained to Moses; at Marah, I saw both characteristics of a site and of an enhancement.

Marah (Exodus 15:23-24)
Spiritual site:  Gold/Green site, Brown evil enhancement
"Force a hero in a territory or your hand to fight all heroes in battle.  Cannot be negated if an Exodus hero or Complainers are in play."

Since the site is multicolor, and the enhancement is single-color, Marah is limited to one per deck (multicolor site).  And it makes the heroes in battle fight as one, since it was the entire Israelite community complaining.

Here's another one.  Gibeon, home of the Gibeonites, was attacked by King Adoni-zadek soon after the Gibeonites tricked Joshua and the Israelites into a treaty.  This was the battle where Joshua prayed to have the sun and moon stand still so that he could destroy the enemy army.  There was no escape for the enemy, so even if the additional battle is a battle challenge, your opponent must present an evil character if able.

Gibeon (Joshua 10:12)
Spiritual site:  Red site, Gold good enhancement
"If Joshua is in play and you do not rescue a lost soul this battle, you may make an additional attack this turn (limit 1 per turn).  If it is a battle challenge, opponent must present an evil character from hand or territory."

I'm pretty sure I designed this so it can't be abused with Ambush the City.  The rule of "1 successful rescue attempt per turn" should be sufficient here. 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 12:22:46 PM by jmhartz »
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: New card type: Spiritual sites
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 12:56:45 PM »
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I think that this is an interesting concept that I would like to see developed more.  Such a card would be very interesting, easily limited through the brigades, and still add to strategy.

My question is: Why would some of them be used as sites?  Like Marah, I can't see how it works as a site (except as being able to hold LS, but those brigades make it less useful for that).  While I think this idea could be GREAT for some abilities that are always effective like your Gideon example, I'm not sure how that works the same on cards like Marah.  Perhaps you'd have to have them have an effect that triggers based on the battle?  For example:

Marah (Exodus 15:23-24)
Spiritual site:  Gold/Green site, Brown evil enhancement
"If more than one of your evil characters is in battle, you may force a hero in a territory or your hand to fight all heroes in battle.  Cannot be negated if an Exodus hero or Complainers are in play."

That way, it works as an enhancement still (and goes with some of the other banding stuff in Brown), and you can use it as a site, as it would trigger when you have two or more EC in battle.

Other issue that would need to be looked at is the site limit, which I don't see in your explanation of how it works with the current rules.  These would could against the 1 Site per 1 LS rule, correct?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 12:59:05 PM by Redoubter »

Offline TechnoEthicist

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Re: New card type: Spiritual sites
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2013, 12:58:07 PM »
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Very cool idea!

Would they still work as enhancements in battle if they are occupied? i missed that detail :P

Offline Redoubter

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Re: New card type: Spiritual sites
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 01:00:00 PM »
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Would they still work as enhancements in battle if they are occupied? i missed that detail :P

The original post detailed that they are like Covenants/Curses, so they would be sites when in play.  Their abilities would be active as sites normally are, from what I can tell.

Offline Josh

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Re: New card type: Spiritual sites
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2013, 01:02:45 PM »
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Would they still work as enhancements in battle if they are occupied? i missed that detail :P

If they are occupied, and you add one to battle as an enhancement, the LS stays in LoB.  That would be part of the "definition" of how Spiritual Sites work.

Other issue that would need to be looked at is the site limit, which I don't see in your explanation of how it works with the current rules.  These would could against the 1 Site per 1 LS rule, correct?

Spiritual sites are still sites for the LS/site limit, and would count towards the one site per LS rule.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 01:06:12 PM by jmhartz »
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: New card type: Spiritual sites
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 02:18:36 PM »
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I just want to correct the deck limits (this is for T2)
Sites with no special ability (irreverent for this exact conversation, but still deserves mention) 4 per deck
Sites with special ability 1 per 50

There is nothing in the rules about the color of sites limiting them.

The rule would probably be if there is a difference in the number allow because of card types, take the more restrictive one.
Example: Covenant with Death is a dual colored curse, a curse is 3 per deck, dual colors is 2 per deck, so Covenant with Death is 2 per deck.

The sites would follow the same rules, if it is a single colored enhancement it would be 1 per 50, if it was a dual colored it would be 2 or 1 per 50, which will always be 2 (Again this it T2) and if it is a full multicolored enhancement with a site of any kind it would be 1 per deck.

Finally since the card is a site so it still has to follow no more sites than there are lost souls.

Another comment, I would recommend just making them good or evil. There aren't really any rules for neutral cards in deck building, they just don't have the properties of either good or evil. So rather than trying to have them count as half a good card (which could get confusing) I would suggest having them work like covenants and curses, either good or evil, not half good (which I don't think is a good idea)

I do like the idea of this card type, it could be fun.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: New card type: Spiritual sites
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 02:28:40 PM »
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Would they still work as enhancements in battle if they are occupied? i missed that detail :P

If they are occupied, and you add one to battle as an enhancement, the LS stays in LoB.  That would be part of the "definition" of how Spiritual Sites work.

That would substantially change the way sites work, so I would recommend against treating them differently than normal sites.  You should not be able to "add a site" to battle as an enhancement, that's too much of a gameplay change and goes against our current comparisons (Curses, Covenants) as well as moving too many rules around, too much "Do this, except in these cases..."

Rather, just have the site have an ability that can affect the battle if certain conditions are met, just like sites do currently, and allow them to be played as enhancements from hand instead.

Offline asrgimli

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Re: New card type: Spiritual sites
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 10:10:02 AM »
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Quote
Gibeon (Joshua 10:12)
Spiritual site:  Red site, Gold good enhancement
"If Joshua is in play and you do not rescue a lost soul this battle, you may make an additional attack this turn.  If it is a battle challenge, opponent must present an evil character from hand or territory."

I'm new to the forums and fairly new to the game, so this might seem like an odd question, but is there something that prevents me from using this ability multiple times in a turn?  Because it seems like I could keep making rescue attempts/battle challenges for as long as I have a hero that can enter battle, and so long as I don't rescue a lost soul, I can just keep using this ability to start another rescue attempt/battle challenge.

My thinking goes like this: I make a rescue attempt with my hero with Joshua in territory.  My rescue attempt fails.  I say "I lost?  I'm not supposed to lose."  I use the ability on this site to say, "Hey, I get another shot!" and everyone's like "What?"  And they look at the site and then say "He gets another shot."  I make another rescue attempt with another hero with Joshua still in territory and then repeat the process.  The wording just makes it seem like it applies to each battle.  Maybe a clarifier of "Limit once per turn"?  Unless, of course, there's a rule I don't know about that limits this to once a turn already.  Or I could just be way off base here.  Just my thoughts.

All in all, I like the idea.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 10:12:06 AM by asrgimli »

Offline Josh

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Re: New card type: Spiritual sites
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2013, 12:17:43 PM »
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Is there something that prevents me from using this ability multiple times in a turn? 

It appears not.  I'll change so that it says "second" instead of "additional".  I know for a fact that you cannot make more than one "second" attack in the same turn  ;)
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: New card type: Spiritual sites
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2013, 12:20:14 PM »
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Is there something that prevents me from using this ability multiple times in a turn? 

It appears not.  I'll change so that it says "second" instead of "additional".  I know for a fact that you cannot make more than one "second" attack in the same turn  ;)

The problem with that is that in a lot of (all?) cases, the word "second" is treated as the word "additional". So older banding cards that allow a "second" character to join the battle have Play As that say "additional".
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Offline Josh

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Re: New card type: Spiritual sites
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2013, 12:21:45 PM »
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The problem with that is that in a lot of (all?) cases, the word "second" is treated as the word "additional". So older banding cards that allow a "second" character to join the battle have Play As that say "additional".

I would have thought that, when describing battles, "second" always means "second", not "additional".  But I can change the wording to get around this.
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