Author Topic: Library at Alexandria  (Read 8988 times)

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Library at Alexandria
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2009, 02:45:18 AM »
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isnt this a mtg card? :P kind of similiar effect too, because it involves adding more cards to your hand... :D

i like this card ALOT. truly one of the most original ideas to grace redemption. however, i think i would limit it to once per game to further balance it.
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Offline crustpope

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Re: Library at Alexandria
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2009, 10:54:07 AM »
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I hate to be the the one to rain on everyone "Egyptian" parade, but ALexandria was founded by a Greek and the Library was built during the reign of the Ptolomies who were also greek so if anything I think it belongs in some sort of Hybrid Greek/Egyptian Theme.  It definitely should not have an "Egyptian" Identifier.  probably a "Greek" or 'Ptolemaic' Identifier.  The Egyptian characters and cards are all from a time before the exile and definitely before the time of Alexander the Great who basically "reset" the entire Middle East.  Trying to mix the two is abit like playing anachronism with Redemption cards.
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Offline Colin Michael

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Re: Library at Alexandria
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2009, 10:55:30 AM »
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I hate to be the the one to rain on everyone "Egyptian" parade, but ALexandria was founded by a Greek and the Library was built during the reign of the Ptolomies who were also greek so if anything I think it belongs in some sort of Hybrid Greek/Egyptian Theme.  It definitely should not have an "Egyptian" Identifier.  probably a "Greek" or 'Ptolemaic' Identifier.  The Egyptian characters and cards are all from a time before the exile and definitely before the time of Alexander the Great who basically "reset" the entire Middle East.  Trying to mix the two is abit like playing anachronism with Redemption cards.
This is true, however, for some reason I thought that we had already printed a Ptolemy as an Egyptian.
αθαvαTOι θvηTOι θvηTOι αθαvαTOι ζwvTεs TOv εKειvwv θαvαTov Tov δε εKεivwv βιOv TεθvεwTεs -Heraclitus

Offline crustpope

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Re: Library at Alexandria
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2009, 11:08:45 AM »
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I dont think we have reprinted any ptolemys so far.  We have printed an Antiochus Epiphanes but he was a Selucid (and a greek as an identifier) so that would set the same precedent for the Ptolemys
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Offline Egyptian

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Re: Library at Alexandria
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2009, 01:27:56 PM »
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I hate to be the the one to rain on everyone "Egyptian" parade, but ALexandria was founded by a Greek and the Library was built during the reign of the Ptolomies who were also greek so if anything I think it belongs in some sort of Hybrid Greek/Egyptian Theme.  It definitely should not have an "Egyptian" Identifier.  probably a "Greek" or 'Ptolemaic' Identifier.  The Egyptian characters and cards are all from a time before the exile and definitely before the time of Alexander the Great who basically "reset" the entire Middle East.  Trying to mix the two is abit like playing anachronism with Redemption cards.

When an NT hero is blocked by an OT villain isn't that in some sense anachronistic?

Redemption is full of situations and battles which could never historically have taken place.
Those who are merciful to the cruel will, in the end, be cruel to them that deserve mercy. -Midrash

Offline crustpope

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Re: Library at Alexandria
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2009, 01:44:19 PM »
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When an NT hero is blocked by an OT villain isn't that in some sense anachronistic?

Redemption is full of situations and battles which could never historically have taken place.

Yes There are anachronisims in the game mechanic but not within the civilizations themselves.  You are talking about making the Egyptian civilization span from Patriarichal times until almost NT times without acknowledging the fact that the Egyptian Civilization basically ceased to end as a separate entity after the Persian Conquest in 525. (there was a brief stint of self rule from 404-362 but the three dynasties that ruled during this time could hardly be called stable due to near constant civil war).  What came after Persian rule was not Egyptian in Government, only in location and name.  The ruling class were all Greek in culture and language.
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Offline Egyptian

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Re: Library at Alexandria
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2009, 01:51:20 PM »
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Quote
If Egypt is in play, and opponent rescues a lost soul from this site, you may search draw pile for a card. Discard this card if you control a non-Egyptian"
That is how I would word it so that it cannot be splashed.

I would re-word it as "Negate this ability if you control a non-Egyptian." I don't want the site to discard itself. But most Egyptian defenses will have 1-2 non-Egyptians because of Journey to Egypt.

Quote
If the holder only has only one evil brigade in play, you may search the draw pile for a card. After X searches discard this card. Identifier: X = The number of Pharaohs in play.

Interesting idea. Again I would say, "after X searches negate this ability" instead of "discard this card." Also, I would say "Egyptian Pharaohs and Kings." (Kings Shishak and So should count). But what if you put the site down when you don't have any Pharaohs/Kings out? Or, what if you put the site down when you have 1 Pharaoh out and you put one down on your next turn? Is X determined when the card is played?

Not too keen on the "only one evil brigade in play." Seems like we've overdone it in recent sets on restricting number of brigades, and most Egyptian defenses are going to have 1-2 non-Egyptians because of Journey to Egypt. The requirement to have Egypt in play, this card out, and a Pharaoh in play in order to do the search pretty much restricts this to an Egyptian defense.

If someone wants put in Egypt, Library, and a Pharaoh so that they can potential search ONCE, well more power to them - they should just use False Peace or Search. If they are going to put multiple Pharaohs in, they are pretty much going to play an Egyptian defense, especially in T1...

I'm going to playtest the card exactly as Brian Gabe has it in his post here. I will follow up with a post once I've done that. I will try to keep these and other questions in mind as I'm playtesting it.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 02:01:38 PM by Egyptian »
Those who are merciful to the cruel will, in the end, be cruel to them that deserve mercy. -Midrash

Offline Egyptian

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Re: Library at Alexandria
« Reply #32 on: July 14, 2009, 01:57:04 PM »
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Yes There are anachronisims in the game mechanic but not within the civilizations themselves.  You are talking about making the Egyptian civilization span from Patriarichal times until almost NT times without acknowledging the fact that the Egyptian Civilization basically ceased to end as a separate entity after the Persian Conquest in 525. (there was a brief stint of self rule from 404-362 but the three dynasties that ruled during this time could hardly be called stable due to near constant civil war).  What came after Persian rule was not Egyptian in Government, only in location and name.  The ruling class were all Greek in culture and language.

Look, uh, I'm not a history professor. :-) Perhaps you make some valid points, but the fact remains Alexandria is a city in Egypt, and therefore Library at Alexandria existed in Egypt.

Whether the Library is actually "Egyptian" or not is of minor gameplay importance except in one situation - playing "Building Egypt." I would like it to be "Egyptian" so that it can be brought out with Building Egypt. If you believe this is too powerful or doesn't make sense from a gameplay standpoint, please educate me :-) I'm more than willing to hear the arguments.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 02:14:02 PM by Egyptian »
Those who are merciful to the cruel will, in the end, be cruel to them that deserve mercy. -Midrash

Offline Colin Michael

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Re: Library at Alexandria
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2009, 03:43:54 PM »
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The person who allegedly put together the library (Demetrius Phalereus) was Athenian (a student of Aristotle, in fact).
αθαvαTOι θvηTOι θvηTOι αθαvαTOι ζwvTεs TOv εKειvwv θαvαTov Tov δε εKεivwv βιOv TεθvεwTεs -Heraclitus

 


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