Author Topic: Judas Iscariot (Read 7331 times)

stefferweffer · « **on:** December 09, 2010, 03:05:45 PM »

1/1 Purple Human Male Hero - Disciple
May band to a Disciple. Son of God may not be played for the remainer of this turn. If blocked by a Demon, Pharisee or Sadduccee, convert Judas Iscariot to a crimson evil character. Cannot be negated.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #1 on:** December 09, 2010, 03:13:28 PM »

I would also add "Son of God may not be played this turn." or something like that to make it interesting. Other than that, love it.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2010, 03:22:02 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on December 09, 2010, 03:13:28 PM

I would also add "Son of God may not be played this turn." or something like that to make it interesting. Other than that, love it.

Cool! Adding.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2010, 04:00:53 PM »

Judas Iscariot being a hero shouldn't happen, imo.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2010, 04:21:38 PM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 04:00:53 PM

Judas Iscariot being a hero shouldn't happen, imo.

He was a disciple...

drb1200 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 09, 2010, 04:46:15 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 09, 2010, 04:21:38 PM

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 04:00:53 PM
Judas Iscariot being a hero shouldn't happen, imo.
He was a disciple...

And Caiaphas was a priest.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #6 on:** December 09, 2010, 04:51:49 PM »

Quote from: Daniel on December 09, 2010, 04:46:15 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 09, 2010, 04:21:38 PM
Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 04:00:53 PM
Judas Iscariot being a hero shouldn't happen, imo.
He was a disciple...
And Caiaphas was a priest.

since when was he not a priest?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2010, 07:02:20 PM »

Well, Caiaphas was at no point good. Judas was.
Heck, maybe he can be the next Saul/Paul.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2010, 07:04:35 PM »

Where in the scriptures was Judas good?

stefferweffer · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2010, 08:22:10 PM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 07:04:35 PM

Where in the scriptures was Judas good?

Where in the scriptures is Thaddeus good?

Thaddeus is good in all of these passages: Matt.12:49-50, Matt.14:19, Matt.14:33, Matt.15:36, Mark 3:13-19, Mark 6:12-13, John 2:11, etc. Guess who else is good in those passages, as one of "the disciples"? Judas. Now I don't know at what point Judas ceased being "good", but unless he was never one of the DISCIPLES, then he was at one point. I'd also point to Judas' repentance following Jesus' trial and crucifixion - where he acknowledges that he sinned and also gives back the money. It's a shame that he just couldn't forgive himself and ended up taking his life.

The Warrior · « **Reply #10 on:** December 09, 2010, 08:30:47 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on December 09, 2010, 08:22:10 PM

I'd also point to Judas' repentance following Jesus' trial and crucifixion - where he acknowledges that he sinned and also gives back the money. It's a shame that he just couldn't forgive himself and ended up taking his life.

drb1200 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 09, 2010, 08:32:50 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on December 09, 2010, 08:22:10 PM

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 07:04:35 PM
Where in the scriptures was Judas good?
Where in the scriptures is Thaddeus good?

Thaddeus is good in all of these passages: Matt.12:49-50, Matt.14:19, Matt.14:33, Matt.15:36, Mark 3:13-19, Mark 6:12-13, John 2:11, etc. Guess who else is good in those passages, as one of "the disciples"? Judas. Now I don't know at what point Judas ceased being "good", but unless he was never one of the DISCIPLES, then he was at one point. I'd also point to Judas' repentance following Jesus' trial and crucifixion - where he acknowledges that he sinned and also gives back the money. It's a shame that he just couldn't forgive himself and ended up taking his life.

Judas never repented. Maybe in the Gospel of Judas.

Without getting technical, just because someone is a disciple doesn't make them good.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #12 on:** December 09, 2010, 08:36:20 PM »

Judas was always depicted as a bad man in a good position (see how he thieved from the money bag).

TheJaylor · « **Reply #13 on:** December 09, 2010, 10:25:50 PM »

well he did return the 30 pieces of silver that he betrayed Jesus with before he hung himself and if he didn't then we couldn't have made Pols awesome thread about Potter's Field

stefferweffer · « **Reply #14 on:** December 09, 2010, 10:58:02 PM »

If confessing your sin, being grieved for the harm you have caused, and giving back the money isn't repentance, then I'm not sure what is. It's not like he could bring Jesus back from the dead. I'm not saying he's in heaven (because of how he ended his life), but I'm not sure what more he could have done to be forgiven for his betrayal.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #15 on:** December 09, 2010, 11:09:06 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on December 09, 2010, 08:36:20 PM

Judas was always depicted as a bad man in a good position (see how he thieved from the money bag).

I'm sorry but this is simply not true. You wanting it to be true doesn't make the Scriptures false. He was a Disciple who did some wonderful things with the other disciples, and it says that His disciples believed in Him and worshipped Him. Now unless you are reading into those passages something like "except Judas", I don't think you are on solid scriptural ground. How quick we are to say "Denying Peter" and "Doubting Thomas" just made mistakes but were really good, but "Greedy betraying Judas" was ALWAYS bad through and through. Just like many don't believe that Simon the Magician really believed at first, despite the text clearly saying that he did. Does anyone even remember what the word Disciple means?

But I digress. I did not intend any of this when I came up with the card. We don't have a good King Mannasseh card either, which I regret.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #16 on:** December 09, 2010, 11:29:56 PM »

John 12:5-6 (New King James Version)

5 “Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii[a] and given to the poor?” 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.

John 13:26-27 (New King James Version)

26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”

stefferweffer · « **Reply #17 on:** December 09, 2010, 11:39:37 PM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 11:29:56 PM

John 12:5-6 (New King James Version)

5 “Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii[a] and given to the poor?” 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.

John 13:26-27 (New King James Version)

26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”

I'm curious if you are of the persuasion that thieves and greedy people cannot be saved. I can think of a thief on a cross and a wee little man named Zaccheus who would disagree. If Saul (later Paul) can kill Christians and later be saved, is there no room for a thief? The very murderers of our Lord were offered salvation in Acts chapter 2.

joeycauldron · « **Reply #18 on:** December 09, 2010, 11:41:17 PM »

That is the part where he became corrupted. Otherwise before that he was good. I don't think Judas should be 1/1 though.
Also, I think Judas thought about what he had done and he tried to give back the money they had gave him. After that didn't he kill himself?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #19 on:** December 09, 2010, 11:53:19 PM »

Genuine repentance leads to restoration, not self-destruction. Judas may have regretted what he did, or he may have been haunted by the fact that he just betrayed his friend, master, and savior for shinies, but nowhere in scripture is he described as having truly repented.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #20 on:** December 09, 2010, 11:54:02 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on December 09, 2010, 11:39:37 PM

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 11:29:56 PM
John 12:5-6 (New King James Version)

5 “Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii[a] and given to the poor?” 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.

John 13:26-27 (New King James Version)

26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”
I'm curious if you are of the persuasion that thieves and greedy people cannot be saved. I can think of a theif on a cross and a wee little man named Zaccheus who would disagree. If Saul (later Paul) can kill Christians and later be saved, is there no room for a thief? The very murderers of our Lord were offered salvation in Acts chapter 2.

I'm not of that persuasion at all. I'm just saying when you read the Bible and come across Judas, he isn't ever a hero in any sense.

Whoever made the comment about the evil priests was right on. Judas was just like they were..someone with a title.

Why do you think the priest's version has protect this hero from convert?

stefferweffer · « **Reply #21 on:** December 10, 2010, 12:13:19 AM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 11:54:02 PM

Quote from: stefferweffer on December 09, 2010, 11:39:37 PM
Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 11:29:56 PM
John 12:5-6 (New King James Version)

5 “Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii[a] and given to the poor?” 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.

John 13:26-27 (New King James Version)

26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”
I'm curious if you are of the persuasion that thieves and greedy people cannot be saved. I can think of a theif on a cross and a wee little man named Zaccheus who would disagree. If Saul (later Paul) can kill Christians and later be saved, is there no room for a thief? The very murderers of our Lord were offered salvation in Acts chapter 2.

I'm not of that persuasion at all. I'm just saying when you read the Bible and come across Judas, he isn't ever a hero in any sense.

Whoever made the comment about the evil priests was right on. Judas was just like they were..someone with a title.

Why do you think the priest's version has protect this hero from convert?

If I told you that I found someone in the bible whom spent 3 years of his life traveling with our Lord, believed on Him, worshipped Him, went and taught others about the kingdom and performed miracles, the scriptures call Him a disciple of Christ, and he confessed his sin and repented of his greediness, you'd say that a character like that deserves a hero card for sure. But then when I add, "It's Judas", all of a sudden no way?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #22 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:00:41 AM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on December 09, 2010, 11:29:56 PM

John 12:5-6 (New King James Version)

5 “Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii[a] and given to the poor?” 6 This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.

John 13:26-27 (New King James Version)

26 Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it.” And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”

Verse 1: Used to. Simon the Zealot used to kill Romans for fun. Should he have an EC? Judas is being wary of people who were like him in his life before Christ.
Verse 2: So, anyone who "Satan enters" is condemned forever?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #23 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:07:12 AM »

"Used to" as in "he's dead now, but he used to do that."

In your cute analogy, you forgot to mention the suicide and neatly glossed over Jesus saying it would have been better for him if he'd never been born.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #24 on:** December 10, 2010, 01:37:05 AM »

We already have a hero who commited suicide - King Saul. And I'm not suggesting that he was still "good" when he ended his life, he WAS evil at that time. But it is a perfect analogy (in my opinion) to Judas. I'm not suggesting Judas was a hero when he killed himself either. God called Saul, Saul was faithful for a time, Saul became unfaithful, God rejected Saul. Jesus called Judas, Judas was faithful for a time, Judas became unfaithful, Jesus rejected Judas.

What Jesus says about Judas is no different than what He says about false teachers when they leave the truth, in 2 Pet.2:20-22 "For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

We don't read about King Solomon ever repenting of his idol worship and turning away from the Lord, and yet we have ONLY a HERO card for him. King Manasseh repents and we have ONLY an evil character card for him. I'm just wondering what standard someone is using on who gets a hero card and who gets evil character. I also fear that some ideological problems, more than scripture, are behind a lot of the hesitation in acknowledging that Judas might have once upon a time been a good person.

News:

Author Topic: Judas Iscariot (Read 7331 times)

drb1200

drb1200