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Author Topic: Heretics  (Read 2546 times)

Offline Jmbeers

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Heretics
« on: February 22, 2012, 12:06:20 AM »
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Some NT. Heretics

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« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 06:53:12 PM by Jmbeers »
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Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 12:17:29 AM »
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Besides using SEJ (Satan Enters Judas) once Demonic imposter bands to a Heretic, what others ways can a second Heretic join the battle?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 08:47:04 AM by Arrthoa »
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Offline Jmbeers

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 12:23:15 AM »
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It's just the start of a theme. I could make some with banding abilities later but I know there is almost no banding right now. That also keeps the card from being OP too.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 12:24:33 AM »
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Demonic Imposter is broken.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 12:31:54 AM »
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Quote from: Arrthoa on February 22, 2012, 12:17:29 AM
Besides using SEJ (Satan Enters Judas) once Demonic imposter bands to a Heretic, what others was can a second Heretic join the battle?

Yep, that's definitely a concern.  Perhaps instead it could be a protection from conversion for heretics, which would work well with the verse, and maybe that if you have a demon and a heretic in battle, your evil enhancements cannot be prevented?

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 22, 2012, 12:24:33 AM
Demonic Imposter is broken.

We should learn that too much protection is a bad thing...as I said in your last post, I like the idea of conditional protection, perhaps from enhancements, instead of a blanket protection.

I honestly think that Foretold Deceivers is more broken.  If blocking a lone NT hero, you win (there are VERY few cards to prevent conversion like this), and CBN is a bit much on top of that and good numbers.  It would become another stand-alone to fight Gardensciples or whatever other NT themes get played.

To fix, perhaps have a condition that you must have another heretic in play, and make it CBP (since it was foretold, obviously we couldn't stop it from coming in the first place ;)) instead of CBN?
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Offline Jmbeers

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 12:34:49 AM »
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Foretold D is supposed to convert a hero in territory. Just messed it up, I'll fix it.

For hardened hearts do you think it would be better if it said "when a demon and a heretic are in battle." I wanted to promote some synergy with Orange in this Theme.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 12:43:06 AM by Jmbeers »
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 12:43:34 AM »
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Quote from: Jmbeers on February 22, 2012, 12:34:49 AM
Foretold D is supposed to convert a hero in territory. Just messed it up, I'll fix it.

That's definitely better, but still worries me.  Of course, I'm a BIG proponent of making more CBP and CBI cards instead of CBN.  I'm also big on the powerful abilities that are hard to avoid requiring something else, like having another heretic in play.  Just how I see it though :D

Oh, and I don't know how we forgot that creeping deceiver already DOES band to a heretic, so that works with the two heretic thing.  I still think you could use something to combine demons and heretics more in that card and make this theme very interesting indeed with the cards already here :)
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Offline Red Wing

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 09:33:42 AM »
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I'd word Hardened Hearts like this:

"Protect Heretics from Capture and Conversion. If their are two Heretics in battle, you may discard this card to play a Orange or Crimson enhancement."

Creeping Deceiver+any Heretic+The way Hardened Hearts is worded could be way too strong especially in T2.
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Offline disciple_drew

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 06:31:10 PM »
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I don't think Hardened Hearts should be a curse. It's not a physical item like the other artifacts. If anything, a placed enhancement that sets itself into the owner's territory since it represents a heart condition.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 06:52:56 PM »
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Quote from: disciple_drew on February 24, 2012, 06:31:10 PM
I don't think Hardened Hearts should be a curse. It's not a physical item like the other artifacts. If anything, a placed enhancement that sets itself into the owner's territory since it represents a heart condition.

If you're trying to say that curses should be physical, that doesn't fit with the cards already out there.  While you are correct that artifacts should be physical, by their very name, curses represent more of a spiritual nature, just like covenants are spiritual.  For some examples, see any "Covenant of...", or on the evil side, see Given Over to Egypt, Peter's Curse, Gibeonite Curse, as well as all of the orange curses.

The whole point of curses and covenants is to allow us to delve into the spiritual, or non-physical at the very least.  With what we already have on curses, I think the original suggestion fits the best :)
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Offline Lampy 2.0

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2012, 11:49:55 AM »
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These are cool. I would like more heretics in the game.
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Offline Jmbeers

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2012, 06:52:21 PM »
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Edited Foretold Decivers, Demonic Impostor, and Hardend Hearts... and added two Enhancements.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2012, 11:25:32 AM »
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To consolidate the wording on Spreading Lies, you can make X=Number of Heretics set aside, and have it set aside X Heroes.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2012, 11:29:47 AM »
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Quote from: Jmbeers on February 25, 2012, 06:52:21 PM
Edited Foretold Decivers, Demonic Impostor, and Hardend Hearts... and added two Enhancements.

I definitely like Deceivers more since they are CBP now and can be stopped more easily with such a scary power.  :)

On the combo of Demonic Imposter and Hardened Hearts, you'd have a CBI complete protection from NT with play-first initiative.  Not sure how I feel about that with the kinds of auto-blocks this can generate (even in T1, as Demonic Imposter is not the only orange demon that bands to humans).  Just my thoughts on it though.

Rejecting the Truth is nice IMO, I just think you could leave out the change in abilities from the SA.  It won't be used by non-heretics anyway as a 1/1, and making it just a 0/4 that ends the battle if used by a heretic matches other cards out there and I think is a good idea.

I like the concept behind Spreading Lies, it is just a bit wordy to me.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on February 26, 2012, 11:25:32 AM
To consolidate the wording on Spreading Lies, you can make X=Number of Heretics set aside, and have it set aside X Heroes.

I'm not sure how the wording would have to be based on how identifiers work now.  This is a tough SA to cut down to bite-size pieces  ;D

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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2012, 11:59:15 AM »
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Make an identifier, "X=Number of Heretics set aside." Then the SA would read:

"Set Character and any number of your Heretics aside for 3 turns. You may set aside X Heroes for 3 turns. Cannot be Negated by an O.T. card."
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Offline Jmbeers

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2012, 01:25:49 PM »
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Quote from: Redoubter on February 26, 2012, 11:29:47 AM
Rejecting the Truth is nice IMO, I just think you could leave out the change in abilities from the SA.  It won't be used by non-heretics anyway as a 1/1, and making it just a 0/4 that ends the battle if used by a heretic matches other cards out there and I think is a good idea.

End the battle is a seperate sentence. This makes the card very usefule to crimson which dosen't have an end the battle enhancement yet. The 0/4 part just makes it much better for Heretics.

I would like to clean up Spreading lies too but I didn't want the character in battle to be able to set aside a hero as well. The way it is now if you play lies on a heretic in battle and set him and one from territory aside you could only set aside one hero. With the recommended Sa you could set aside two Heroes. Any suggestions? Or do you think it would be fine to have the Heretic in battle count toward the set aside?
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Heretics
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2012, 01:33:59 PM »
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I don't see why not. You'd still have to have a Heretic, and if you played it on a non-Heretic it still wouldn't count for one of the X.
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