Author Topic: Exiled (Read 2546 times)

stefferweffer · « **on:** October 07, 2010, 02:53:57 PM »

2/4 Crimson Curse
Opponents' human heroes may not rescue lost souls in sites of matching brigade.

"He carried into exile all Jerusalem: all the officers and fighting men, and all the craftsmen and artisans—a total of ten thousand. Only the poorest people of the land were left." 2 Kings 24:14

(In my site-lockout decks I always wished there was a card like this.)

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** October 07, 2010, 03:12:37 PM »

Eh, Sitelock is dead. Any cards like these printed in the future would be a waste of that card slot.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #2 on:** October 07, 2010, 04:14:30 PM »

Do you feel that even with the addition of such great sites as Disciples made that Sitelock will not be tried anymore? My thoughts are that it actually got stronger (other than Fishing Boat), but I may be missing something? Thanks for explaining further while you don't see site lockout as a valid strategy anymore.

I'll expand on why I would like a card like this. Up here the dominant players use heroes of multiple different brigades (usually in some sort of speed deck). So despite my best efforts to take away their multi-sites and their site access artifacts and negate their "access to any site" abilities, inevitably they're going to get a couple heroes who just happen to match the color of an occupied site. Like their ET might have access to Pergamum, or their Hur to Babylonian Banquet Hall or Nazareth, or Moses to Kir, or Phinehas to Mildewed House, etc. A card like this would deny those heroes access to a site that matches their color. The secondary benefit is that if you use a bunch of sites of the same color, for example a bunch of Babylons or Gardens of Edens, and then go up against a deck of that color, you don't have to hang your head in despair anymore. Instead, now its actually HARDER for them to get lost souls.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #3 on:** October 07, 2010, 04:24:37 PM »

Fishing Boat is infinite access forever in one of the most-used offenses. That alone is enough to seal the end of sitelock defenses, because if they run into just one Disciples offense (or 2-3 at bigger tournaments), which they likely will, they can't win the tournament.

In addition to Fishing Boat, the great new sites are actually part of the death of sitelock. Used to be, only sitelock decks used sites. Now, almost every deck uses Sites, so instead of being able to run BBH and some Red sites while only needing to get rid of one or two access sites and maybe an access Art, now you pretty much have to run a full stock of Silver or Blue sites and hope your opponent doesn't use any Angels, Job or Genesis.

Furthermore, the methods of getting rid of access that existed before are now less feasible. Land Dispute was once the cornerstone of Sitelock, but now Philistines have been neutered thanks to Nazareth and a plethora of cards that can break through Garrison, and CP stops shenanigans.

Furthermore, Benedictus is another fairly popular card which gives site access and there's nothing Sitelock can do about it other than play DD and hope they don't need their art slot for something else.

An yet another reason Sitelock is dead is that before, a lot of its power came from catching people unprepared. So few people used sites that a lot of people didn't prepare for them. Now, every single deck is built with awareness of Sites and ways to get into them because most decks now use Sites.

Di basically created the perfect storm for putting an end to Sitelock as a deck type, and I couldn't be happier.

adotson85 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 07, 2010, 04:30:22 PM »

I agree sitelock took a big hit, but it could still be viable. You just need to make sure your defense can hold up without the sitelock. A sitelock/Manasseh defense could be good, however it would require a lot of defensive cards to create. Would probably have to be 63 or 70 cards. I think sitelock has now transformed into sitestall as it is almost impossible to completely lock people out.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #5 on:** October 07, 2010, 04:35:08 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on October 07, 2010, 04:24:37 PM

Di basically created the perfect storm for putting an end to Sitelock as a deck type, and I couldn't be happier.

That surprises me, coming from you. I thought that we both wanted MORE defensive strategies rather than less. If you are right (and you probably are), then the last couple sets have killed Heroless and Site-lock and maybe more. I know they've strengthened certain "themes", which is great, but what new strategies have they replaced heroless and site-lockout with? Again, I am a fan of diversity, and I will be sorry to see site lockout leave the game if that happens.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2010, 04:36:45 PM »

Isn't Fishing Boat one of those "set-aside" fortresses? If so it seems to me that having a site access granting card that is virtually untouchable is a bad idea.

Modifying with this: I just realized that if they made a card like this, and I used 7 purple sites, suddenly most Disciples don't have site access anymore. I think it would be a good counter to a powerful card like that, but then again I always liked the site-lockout option.

adotson85 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2010, 05:37:48 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on October 07, 2010, 04:35:08 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on October 07, 2010, 04:24:37 PM

Di basically created the perfect storm for putting an end to Sitelock as a deck type, and I couldn't be happier.

That surprises me, coming from you. I thought that we both wanted MORE defensive strategies rather than less. If you are right (and you probably are), then the last couple sets have killed Heroless and Site-lock and maybe more. I know they've strengthened certain "themes", which is great, but what new strategies have they replaced heroless and site-lockout with? Again, I am a fan of diversity, and I will be sorry to see site lockout leave the game if that happens.

Sitelock isn't completely dead, but is almost useless against a Disciples offense. Herods and the Manasseh defense have replaced heroless and sitelock. Both are very strong. Defense got a huge boost in this set.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2010, 06:18:27 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on October 07, 2010, 04:35:08 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on October 07, 2010, 04:24:37 PM

Di basically created the perfect storm for putting an end to Sitelock as a deck type, and I couldn't be happier.

That surprises me, coming from you. I thought that we both wanted MORE defensive strategies rather than less. If you are right (and you probably are), then the last couple sets have killed Heroless and Site-lock and maybe more. I know they've strengthened certain "themes", which is great, but what new strategies have they replaced heroless and site-lockout with? Again, I am a fan of diversity, and I will be sorry to see site lockout leave the game if that happens.

I am a defense-lover, but I've always thought Site Lock was a cheap gimmick. I also think Heroless is a gimmick. Those two "strategies" have been replaced with Herods, Disciples, and Heretics (none of which are gimmicks).

stefferweffer · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2010, 07:09:26 PM »

Thanks. I too am excited about other groups of characters to rescue or block with. But those aren't new mechanics - just new characters. Like I said, I like a diversity of tactical options too, even if some of them are "gimmiky".

adotson85 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2010, 07:16:17 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on October 07, 2010, 07:09:26 PM

Thanks. I too am excited about other groups of characters to rescue or block with. But those aren't new mechanics - just new characters. Like I said, I like a diversity of tactical options too, even if some of them are "gimmiky".

Recursion of evil enhancements is a new tactic.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #11 on:** October 07, 2010, 07:21:30 PM »

It is? Pride of Simon and Imitating Evil come to mind. But you are probably referring to some Disciples cards that keep recycling evil enhancements. I agree that this is cool. I just think we could have added things like this to the game without simultaneously subtracting other strategies.

browarod · « **Reply #12 on:** October 07, 2010, 07:37:53 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on October 07, 2010, 07:21:30 PM

It is? Pride of Simon and Imitating Evil come to mind. But you are probably referring to some Disciples cards that keep recycling evil enhancements.

It has to do with loading Golgotha with evil enhancements and then shuffling it (and its contents) into deck, or something to that effect.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #13 on:** October 07, 2010, 08:52:49 PM »

Or just blocking with Scribe or playing Abraham's Decedent.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #14 on:** October 08, 2010, 10:59:46 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on October 07, 2010, 06:18:27 PM

Quote from: stefferweffer on October 07, 2010, 04:35:08 PM
Quote from: Minister Polarius on October 07, 2010, 04:24:37 PM

Di basically created the perfect storm for putting an end to Sitelock as a deck type, and I couldn't be happier.

That surprises me, coming from you. I thought that we both wanted MORE defensive strategies rather than less. If you are right (and you probably are), then the last couple sets have killed Heroless and Site-lock and maybe more. I know they've strengthened certain "themes", which is great, but what new strategies have they replaced heroless and site-lockout with? Again, I am a fan of diversity, and I will be sorry to see site lockout leave the game if that happens.
I am a defense-lover, but I've always thought Site Lock was a cheap gimmick. I also think Heroless is a gimmick. Those two "strategies" have been replaced with Herods, Disciples, and Heretics (none of which are gimmicks).

*Glare* Herods, Disciples, and Heretics are Themes, not strategies.

Ironica · « **Reply #15 on:** October 08, 2010, 12:48:48 PM »

Imho, philistine started the downfall of sitelock. Since texp, they became popular and since they had a good sitelock style card and that they can be reacurred ezaly, people thought they were made for sitelock when in fact, the sites were just thrown in. Before texp, sitelock had to devote almost their entire defense to sitelock tactics and most times, they had to have a herolite deck. However, as mentioned before, philies didn't have to be devoted to site lock. Throw in a couple of cards and then your phillies could play with sites. Since it became popular, people naturally wanted counters. So, here we are now.

Also, since phillies are probably still a popular sitelock and purple have fishing boat, philies have some good anti purple cards that can probably deal with the deciples. What is now basically dead is a brown sitelock tactic.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** October 08, 2010, 03:33:04 PM »

I'll give you that Disciples are just the new face of speed, but Heretics and Herods definitely are a new kind of strategy. If anything, Heretics are the new face of Sitelock. Herods are new as a strategy of relying on characters (not splash) rather than battle-winners. Many games with my Herod defense I can get away with playing 0-2 battlewinners and still successfully stopping my opponent.

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Author Topic: Exiled (Read 2546 times)

stefferweffer

Exiled

Minister Polarius

Re: Exiled

stefferweffer

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Minister Polarius

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adotson85

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stefferweffer

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stefferweffer

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adotson85

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Minister Polarius

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stefferweffer

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adotson85

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stefferweffer

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browarod

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Minister Polarius

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TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Ironica

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Minister Polarius

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