Author Topic: Evil Fire (Read 4324 times)

Minion of Jesus · « **Reply #1 on:** May 22, 2012, 08:00:30 AM »

That would be fun.

Nameless · « **Reply #2 on:** May 22, 2012, 08:41:05 AM »

We do not need another auto block.

megamanlan · « **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2012, 09:13:06 AM »

I like the older one better.

Drrek · « **Reply #4 on:** May 22, 2012, 09:30:02 AM »

Magicians do not need another "discard this card to capture a hero" card.

jbeers285 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 22, 2012, 02:33:34 PM »

I don't think this is an auto block.

It can be if you don't band, but there are several ways to get rid of evil enhancements in territory.

Also because it is discarded its stops it from being used over and over again like invoking terror.

megamanlan · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2012, 02:37:19 PM »

While that is (for the most part) true, just about all of those ways you wouldnt want to use to stop it.

galadgawyn · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2012, 02:45:48 PM »

I'm fine with the ability but I think it could be made to match the verse a little more.

The first sentence is appropriate, I think. For the rest I think something like:

"Discard one of your humans to shuffle a lost soul into deck. After battle each player discards an evil card, except this one."

I think that represents the human sacrifice, commitment to evil and stopping people being rescued, and the provoking of God to anger.

Minion of Jesus · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2012, 03:17:59 PM »

Better then the other one.

megamanlan · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2012, 03:18:16 PM »

That would be worse... The God's Wrath part would be more for a GE then apart of an EE, especially since the way you worded it, it would be disasterous to an Opponent more then the Owner.

galadgawyn · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2012, 03:30:53 PM »

Quote

The God's Wrath part would be more for a GE then apart of an EE,

Why? Evil is what causes the destruction of evil. Good is more desiring to rescue and convert. People do evil things and then have to face the consequences, i.e. God's wrath.

Quote

since the way you worded it, it would be disasterous to an Opponent more then the Owner.

That doesn't make sense to me. The discarding of evil doesn't help win the battle and each player gets to do it. I think it has a fairly heavy cost to use it.

Redoubter · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2012, 03:49:37 PM »

Quote from: jbeers285 on May 22, 2012, 02:33:34 PM

I don't think this is an auto block.

It can be if you don't band, but there are several ways to get rid of evil enhancements in territory.

Also because it is discarded its stops it from being used over and over again like invoking terror.

I'm not going to get into the whole verse debate going on, just wanted to comment on this idea real quick.

There are several ways to get rid of artifacts in territory as well, but they're stil troublesome. In fact, some of the most hated discard themselves to stop being used over and over, but this is an enhancement and there are ways to get those back potentially where artifacts cannot be.

This is basically Charms-lite, and adds CB-Ignored to their already formidable array of protections. It can be discarded from a magician in territory while you've blocked any OT human, and then cannot be stopped by ITB (know that for sure) and possibly targeted negates...I can't remember if you can negate Invoking Terror with anything but a "negate last" (I can never keep up with what happens when the card causing a losing condition leaves play), and it would be the same type of scenario.

Thus, auto-block.

Asahel24601 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2012, 03:54:47 PM »

You can negate Invoking Terror with Bravery, or ITB.

Redoubter · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2012, 03:58:43 PM »

Quote from: Asahel24601 on May 22, 2012, 03:54:47 PM

You can negate Invoking Terror with Bravery, or ITB.

On the first, I honestly could not remember how that was resolved.

On the second, ITB would not affect this card if it was in territory, which is where the overlap with the Invoking Terror situation does not extend, hence why I neglected to mention it as a way to stop Invoking Terror (since it was not the actual discussion, just the example due to the similar situations in leaving play and negation).

If that even makes grammatical sense...

Asahel24601 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 22, 2012, 04:02:29 PM »

Update

megamanlan · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2012, 04:20:20 PM »

Quote from: galadgawyn on May 22, 2012, 03:30:53 PM

Quote
The God's Wrath part would be more for a GE then apart of an EE,

Why? Evil is what causes the destruction of evil. Good is more desiring to rescue and convert. People do evil things and then have to face the consequences, i.e. God's wrath.

Quote
since the way you worded it, it would be disasterous to an Opponent more then the Owner.

That doesn't make sense to me. The discarding of evil doesn't help win the battle and each player gets to do it. I think it has a fairly heavy cost to use it.

Here's the problem, it's God's Wrath, not man's wrath. If a card called 'Wrath of God' was made, it wouldn't be evil. And already other cards that are good that are not under your definition of 'good' like the Seals and Trumpets, those are judgements of God to be a final judgement of mankind, but they are still good.

True, but it destroys territories, and with the 6-card defense out there right now, that would devistate that defense so much (not to mention it allows you to choose an Evil Card to discard from Opponent which makes it that you can destroy big defenses too) and all the cards that are equivalent to this (like Two Bears) are usually one time uses and even Invoking Terror isn't too insane since you can get the Hero back.

jbeers285 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2012, 04:39:14 PM »

You can eliminate it as an auto block if it said "capture an OT hero in opponents territory"

Asahel24601 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 22, 2012, 05:44:51 PM »

Fixed

galadgawyn · « **Reply #18 on:** May 22, 2012, 06:28:58 PM »

Quote

Here's the problem, it's God's Wrath, not man's wrath. If a card called 'Wrath of God' was made, it wouldn't be evil. And already other cards that are good that are not under your definition of 'good' like the Seals and Trumpets, those are judgements of God to be a final judgement of mankind, but they are still good.

True, but it destroys territories, and with the 6-card defense out there right now, that would devistate that defense so much (not to mention it allows you to choose an Evil Card to discard from Opponent which makes it that you can destroy big defenses too) and all the cards that are equivalent to this (like Two Bears) are usually one time uses and even Invoking Terror isn't too insane since you can get the Hero back.

Ok, my last response here since I don't want to get too far away from his card ideas. We may have to agree to disagree but it seems that you don't understand what I was saying.

Of course it is God's wrath, thats the point but the card is not God's wrath; it is the evil that brought about God's wrath as a consequence. My "definition" of good was not exhaustive or exclusive. Yes God is a just judge. I was simply pointing out that God PREFERS to save rather than judge. Because of His holiness and justice He will judge when necessary like when He is provoked to anger by EVIL actions as seen in this verse.

For gameplay: it doens't destroy their territory. You target one evil card and your opponent does the same. You are just as vulnerable as they are. This might weaken a large defense but it doesn't destroy it. Even small meta defenses usually keep it in thier hand so it won't target them. If it does hurt a small defense then thats the chance you take for playing that. I don't even get your comparison to Two Bears; they are nothing alike. This is not a battlewinner other than shuffling the soul which works best when not passing init. It is not reusable unless you win the battle which my version doesn't help do that.

megamanlan · « **Reply #19 on:** May 22, 2012, 09:02:29 PM »

The 'prevocking' to wrath still shouldn't be on an Evil Card, now if it was something that was like a cause/effect (you attack someone stronger then you, you will most likely lose) or causing someone's wrath, but God's wrath wouldnt be an extra effect on an Evil Card.

Actually, the wording of the card suggestion has you choosing. And either way, it's still crazy powerful to be crushing Forts, Curses or Evil Characters after a battle, that is actually helping your offense then a defense. And in small defenses, if Gomer and KoT win, they go to territory, not back to hand.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2012, 05:54:33 PM »

I like both cards a lot. Whatever it is that happened to Evil Fire, it probably didn't need the nerf. It's multicolored so only 2 in T2 and it can't be used with the meta-defense, so it can't have been OP. It's still cool like it is, but the restrictions seem unneeded to me.

megamanlan · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2012, 05:57:43 PM »

It's because it's another capture for Magicians.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #22 on:** May 23, 2012, 06:44:44 PM »

It's fully negatable, so where's the beef?

megamanlan · « **Reply #23 on:** May 23, 2012, 07:20:40 PM »

That it's still not the easiest to negate it.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #24 on:** May 23, 2012, 07:22:24 PM »

You can just negate it with any of the things that are used to negate things on offense.

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Author Topic: Evil Fire (Read 4324 times)