Author Topic: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love  (Read 3949 times)

browarod

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Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« on: September 01, 2010, 11:10:38 AM »
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Very disheartened by a ruling on WoNL, I decided to give non-SA heroes a boost. It's probably overpowered, but I think they deserve it.

Divine Retribution (or, Strength in Weakness reprint)
[Multi Good Enhancement | 4/0 | Isaiah 35:4]
If all your heroes in play, set aside, and discard pile have no special ability, discard all evil characters in play and set aside, regardless of protection or immunity. Cannot be negated.


Unrelated to the above card, had a random idea for this one last night. Not sure if I got the wording right and I couldn't think of a specific color to make it, so I defaulted to multi. Suggestions would be lovely.

Covenant of Love
[Multi Covenant | 4/3 | Deuteronomy 7:9]
-May be activated on your Good Dominant in territory or Land of Redemption-
When an opponent discards a card from your hand or deck, place face-down on this Artifact instead. During draw phase, you may draw one fewer card to add a random card from here to hand. When deactivated, randomly discard half the cards here (rounded down) to shuffle the rest into deck. Cannot be negated.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 11:53:08 AM by browarod »

Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2010, 11:51:10 AM »
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I have a deck that relies on WONL.  What is the specific ruling you mention that hurt it?  Thanks.

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2010, 11:56:40 AM »
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Very disheartened by a ruling on WoNL, I decided to give non-SA heroes a boost. It's probably overpowered, but I think they deserve it.

Divine Retribution
[Multi Good Enhancement | 4/0 | Isaiah 35:4]
If all your heroes in play and set aside have no special ability, remove all evil characters in play and set aside from the game, regardless of protection or immunity. Cannot be negated.


Unrelated to the above card, had a random idea for this one last night. Not sure if I got the wording right and I couldn't think of a specific color to make it, so i defaulted to multi. Suggestions would be lovely.

Covenant of Love
[Multi Covenant | Deuteronomy 7:9 | Identifiers: May be activated on your Good Dominant in territory or Land of Redemption.]
When a card from your hand or deck is discarded by an opponent, place it here, face-down, instead. During your draw phase, you can add 1 random card from here to your hand.
Love cov of love but I think you should add instead of drawing. The first one is Op'd to the max, honestly Ra gad, play that. GG.
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browarod

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2010, 01:02:09 PM »
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I have a deck that relies on WONL.  What is the specific ruling you mention that hurt it?  Thanks.
That gained abilities mean SA-less heroes are not SA-less anymore for the purposes of WoNL.

Love cov of love but I think you should add instead of drawing. The first one is Op'd to the max, honestly Ra gad, play that. GG.
Edited Cov of Love a little. As for the first, since AoCP doesn't have a restriction and discards everything, I wanted this to be more powerful since it can only be utilized properly in SA-less decks. If you still think it's too much I can edit it.

Offline lightningninja

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2010, 01:06:32 PM »
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I love Covenant of Love for any deck... that's a really cood idea.
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browarod

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2010, 01:12:56 PM »
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I love Covenant of Love for any deck... that's a really cood idea.
Thanks! Glad you like it ^_^

EDIT: Changed Div Ret a little to tone its ability down somewhat.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 01:15:39 PM by browarod »

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2010, 01:28:22 PM »
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I like Divine Retribution (although the name doesn't really have anything to do with no SA Heroes. I'd make it a Strength in Weakness reprint for the lulz), but I LOVE Love Cov. One of the best card ideas I've seen in a while. It should specify what happens to the cards there when it's deactivated, though.
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browarod

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2010, 01:40:07 PM »
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I like Divine Retribution (although the name doesn't really have anything to do with no SA Heroes. I'd make it a Strength in Weakness reprint for the lulz),
Haha, interesting idea. I'll add that to the first post as an alternate way of making it.

but I LOVE Love Cov. One of the best card ideas I've seen in a while. It should specify what happens to the cards there when it's deactivated, though.
Yeah, I was really excited that I came up with the idea. Oh, good thinking. I'll add a deactivation clause to it. Thanks for pointing it out!

EDIT: Added the deactivation ability. Good? Bad? I didn't want that part to make it OP so I thought of the discard half to keep half part.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 01:43:05 PM by browarod »

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2010, 02:06:50 PM »
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Good. Also, "less" needs to be "fewer," and it needs to be CBN to stop solve the problem of what happens if it's Negated and then deactivated.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

browarod

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2010, 02:13:36 PM »
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Good. Also, "less" needs to be "fewer," and it needs to be CBN to stop solve the problem of what happens if it's Negated and then deactivated.
Fix'd and added. Thanks for the tips! ^_^

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2010, 02:44:17 PM »
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One question: What about lost souls? Those should go to play but if the card is face down. Maybe

"IF a card from hand or deck is d/c'd by an opp's s.a., reveal to opp. If it is a ls place in play. Otherwise place it FD here instead."

Love is blind ya know ;)
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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2010, 02:49:57 PM »
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One question: What about lost souls? Those should go to play but if the card is face down. Maybe

"IF a card from hand or deck is d/c'd by an opp's s.a., reveal to opp. If it is a ls place in play. Otherwise place it FD here instead."

Love is blind ya know ;)

I disagree. I think that if your opponent discards a Lost Soul from your deck, he should have to run the risk of not being able to rescue it because it is face-down and out of play, just like he would if he actually discarded it. And there is also a chance that the LS will end up in the draw pile anyway, so it is a better situation for your opponent than just having it be discarded.

I honestly think this card (or a card very similar) should be made. Very nice job.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2010, 02:56:07 PM »
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I think this would be the shortest, least problematic way of wording it:

Covenant of Love
4/3 Multi Covenant
-May be activated on your Good Dominant in territory or Land of Redemption-
"When an opponent Discards a card from your hand or deck, place face-down on this Artifact instead. During draw phase, you may draw one fewer card to add a random card from here to hand. When deactivated, discard contents (Lost Souls go to play). Cannot be Negated."
~Deuteronomy 7:9

It's still really long in this form, though. I can't think of any ways to shorten the SA.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 03:11:48 PM by Minister Polarius »
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

browarod

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2010, 02:59:34 PM »
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One question: What about lost souls? Those should go to play but if the card is face down. Maybe

"IF a card from hand or deck is d/c'd by an opp's s.a., reveal to opp. If it is a ls place in play. Otherwise place it FD here instead."

Love is blind ya know ;)

I disagree. I think that if your opponent discards a Lost Soul from your deck, he should have to run the risk of not being able to rescue it because it is face-down and out of play, just like he would if he actually discarded it. And there is also a chance that the LS will end up in the draw pile anyway, so it is a better situation for your opponent than just having it be discarded.
I actually agree with the Prof on this. It's their risk in discarding your cards, so they should have the possibility for it to backfire.

I honestly think this card (or a card very similar) should be made. Very nice job.
Thanks :D

It's still really long in this form, though. I can't think of any ways to shorten the SA.
Why does it have to be short? Just look at Invisible Beings XD

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2010, 03:03:42 PM »
-1
Samaritan Water Jar is the absolute longest Rob wants card SA's to be, preferable about 20 characters shorter.

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2010, 03:08:17 PM »
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Quote
I think that if your opponent discards a Lost Soul from your deck, he should have to run the risk of not being able to rescue it because it is face-down and out of play, just like he would if he actually discarded it
BUT most deck discard cards place the LS into play.

I didn't notice the LOR clause, I don't like that part because that makes it un-killable.

Quote
When deactivated, return contents to deck.
Massive dislike. So now its unkillable and come end game you can place all the cards you got discarded back in deck with no cost? (U+T and this card ftl)
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2010, 03:12:20 PM »
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Changed.
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browarod

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2010, 03:17:57 PM »
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Samaritan Water Jar is the absolute longest Rob wants card SA's to be, preferable about 20 characters shorter.
Either way, the gist of the effect is there and that's what matters. If Rob/PTB decided to make it an actual card, they have permission to reword it to be shorter and fit better.

Changed.
Thanks, but can I please rewrite my own card? Your shortening has completely changed parts of the effect, and I don't like the things that are changed. As I said above, I don't care about the length right now so much as getting the effect hammered out.

BUT most deck discard cards place the LS into play.

Most, but not all. I just think it's fine because it would make people think twice about massive deck discard strategies as currently there isn't much reason not to use that sort of thing (other than it's kind of a slow strategy).

I didn't notice the LOR clause, I don't like that part because that makes it un-killable.

I wanted an alternate place to have this active. I thought of placing it on a good dominant but I didn't want Glory of the Lord (which the vast majority of players don't use) to be the only target so I added the LoR option in order that GoYS could be used as well.
Responses in bold above.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 03:40:46 PM by browarod »

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 05:08:04 PM »
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Yeah, my rewrite is for length. If it were to be a real card, it'd have to be shortened. I love the concept and I wish the original intent would fit in the SA length restriction.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

browarod

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 05:10:59 PM »
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Yeah, my rewrite is for length. If it were to be a real card, it'd have to be shortened. I love the concept and I wish the original intent would fit in the SA length restriction.
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound harsh in my last post. I appreciate your efforts, I really do. I'd just like to see if I can shorten it and keep the same effect before resorting to cutting parts out :)

browarod

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2010, 11:53:47 AM »
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Alrighty, I spliced up Polarius' and added it to the first post. Is that short enough or do I need to cut/reword more?

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2010, 01:45:57 PM »
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Still about a line too long. I found some creative ways to cut length while keeping it exactly the same and ended up with:

"Place cards an opponent Discards from your hand or deck here face-down. During draw phase, you may draw one fewer card to return a random content to hand. When deactivated, randomly Discard half contents to return the rest to deck. Cannot be Negated."

It's still about 10 characters over the maximum, though. The best way I could see to do it is make the D2 and return mandatory, getting rid of "you may" and bringing it into acceptable range (though still a little long). This is what the SA would look like with that change:

"Place cards an opponent Discards from your hand or deck here face-down. During draw phase, return one content to hand to draw one fewer card. When deactivated, randomly Discard half contents to return the rest to deck. Cannot be Negated."

I switched the cost-benefit around so that you only have to D2 if there are actually cards on the Covenant. What do you think?
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

browarod

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2010, 02:14:32 PM »
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I still think "fewer" sounds weird in that context. Plus, "less" is one character shorter ;)

Also, perhaps replace "return one content" with "add one card here"? It's shorter and a little less awkward (imho).

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2010, 02:34:00 PM »
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I agree, but I think that part of the terminology standardization uses "return" for that kind of thing. If it doesn't, then I'm all for the less awkward wording.

"Fewer" is grammatically correct there. The reason it sounds weird is that we're used to hearing "less" used incorrectly.
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Re: Divine Retribution and Covenant of Love
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2010, 06:34:05 PM »
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"Fewer" is grammatically correct there. The reason it sounds weird is that we're used to hearing "less" used incorrectly.

If less people in the world were ignorant of rules of English grammar, fewer nonsense would exist on the internet.  ::)
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