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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: stefferweffer on August 04, 2010, 08:55:51 AM

Title: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: stefferweffer on August 04, 2010, 08:55:51 AM
Orange/Gray 6/0 Curse:

Search opponent's Territory, Hand and Draw Pile for one non-Dominant card (except Paul) whose ability is not able to be negated or interrupted, and remove it from the game.  Once none of those remain, discard this card.  May be used twice.


"The arrogance of your heart has deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rock, in the loftiness of your dwelling place, who say in your heart, 'Who will bring me down to the earth?' "  Obadiah 1:3
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: The Warrior on August 04, 2010, 08:57:29 AM
Gray 6/0 Curse:

Discard this card to search opponent's Territory, Hand and Draw Pile for one card that says "Cannot be negated" and remove it from the game.  Cannot be negated.


"The arrogance of your heart has deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rock, in the loftiness of your dwelling place, who say in your heart, 'Who will bring me down to the earth?' "  Obadiah 1:3
interesting concept, but could u add a little more spice? its a bit bland
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: stefferweffer on August 04, 2010, 09:06:11 AM
Modified to allow it to be used twice, like Captured Ark.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: The M on August 04, 2010, 10:18:24 AM
Hoho!
Goodbye Babylonians! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 04, 2010, 11:15:31 AM
I would havee it say Cannot be Negated or Cannot be Interrupted. Other than that, I like it a lot.

Oh, and also, I would make it Cannot be Negated. ;)
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: hi123 on August 04, 2010, 12:46:05 PM
Gray 6/0 Curse:

Search opponent's Territory, Hand and Draw Pile for one card (except Saul/Paul or another copy of this card) that says "Cannot be negated" or "Cannot be Interrupted" and remove it from the game.  May be used twice.


"The arrogance of your heart has deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rock, in the loftiness of your dwelling place, who say in your heart, 'Who will bring me down to the earth?' "  Obadiah 1:3
Well....By By AOCP!
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 04, 2010, 12:56:14 PM
I LOVE THIS CARD. but it kills heroless decks.  :-\
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: stefferweffer on August 04, 2010, 01:01:21 PM
I LOVE THIS CARD. but it kills heroless decks.  :-\
It shouldn't.  I put "except Saul/Paul" in the ability.  Not just because heroless needs to remain viable (and TxP just hurt it bad already), but it is also biblical.  With Paul's "thorn in the flesh" God made sure that Paul would not succumb to pride.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 04, 2010, 01:05:09 PM
I LOVE THIS CARD. but it kills heroless decks.  :-\
It shouldn't.  I put "except Saul/Paul" in the ability.  Not just because heroless needs to remain viable (and TxP just hurt it bad already), but it is also biblical.  With Paul's "thorn in the flesh" God made sure that Paul would not succumb to pride.
get rid of AoCP and a heroless deck is powerless. or Zeal, for that matter.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on August 04, 2010, 01:11:25 PM
I LOVE THIS CARD. but it kills heroless decks.  :-\
It shouldn't.  I put "except Saul/Paul" in the ability.  Not just because heroless needs to remain viable (and TxP just hurt it bad already), but it is also biblical.  With Paul's "thorn in the flesh" God made sure that Paul would not succumb to pride.
get rid of AoCP and a heroless deck is powerless. or Zeal, for that matter.
Zeal doesn't cay Cannot be negated. Now that I think of it, does AOCP say cannot be negated or this ability may not be negated? Also remember: anything Paul plays cannot be negated.

EDIT: lol. This card can't discard AOCP. AOCP says "May not be interrupted, negated, or prevented". Even if you could, just use the non promo beings it is CBN on Paul.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: TheJaylor on August 04, 2010, 01:12:49 PM
Zeal CBN if used by Phineas, son of Eleazer
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on August 04, 2010, 01:14:21 PM
Zeal CBN if used by Phineas, son of Eleazer
Yeah. You're right. It can't discard AOC or AOCP though.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Prof Underwood on August 04, 2010, 01:19:40 PM
I actually like the idea behind this card.  However, I don't think top decks would add a curse to their deck that could only take out 2 cards maximum (assuming the art didn't get DoN'd, and assuming that there opp even had cards that specifically had the words "Cannot be negated" in their deck).

If there were no limit on this curse, so that they do it once every turn, then maybe top decks would include it.  There would still be some games where it would be useless, but in other games, it would be powerful enough to make up for that risk.

However, that would OP in T2 where you could have 3 of these.  Therefore, I would make it multi-colored.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 04, 2010, 01:22:29 PM
I actually like the idea behind this card.  However, I don't think top decks would add a curse to their deck that could only take out 2 cards maximum (assuming the art didn't get DoN'd, and assuming that there opp even had cards that specifically had the words "Cannot be negated" in their deck).

If there were no limit on this curse, so that they do it once every turn, then maybe top decks would include it.  There would still be some games where it would be useless, but in other games, it would be powerful enough to make up for that risk.

However, that would OP in T2 where you could have 3 of these.  Therefore, I would make it multi-colored.
or, say Twice per Game.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 04, 2010, 01:38:41 PM
However, that would OP in T2 where you could have 3 of these.
By T2, do you mean that type where you can have 5x AoCP in the same deck?
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Prof Underwood on August 04, 2010, 01:46:20 PM
However, that would OP in T2 where you could have 3 of these.
By T2, do you mean that type where you can have 5x AoCP in the same deck?
You wouldn't have any left if I had 3 of these curses and could use it every turn to kill one.  I'm trying to balance the card for T1 and T2.  For T1 it would need to be every turn (no limit of 2 per game) to actually see play.  But for T2 it would need to be multi-colored to keep people from having 3 copies and wiping out people's decks with them.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: stefferweffer on August 04, 2010, 02:10:34 PM
I have listended to these ideas and revised again.  1)  I made it two colors so that it limits Type 2 abuse., 2)  I removed the "May be used twice" condition, and 3)  I've tried to change the wording so that it DOES affect AOCP, which I DO want this card to effect (I did not know until recently that it said "May not" instead of "Cannot")

Just so everyone understands the purpose of this card, I wrote an article today in "Strategies and combos" asking for no more CBN and CBI cards.  I list the reasons there that I feel all the CBN cards are hurting the game.

I linked this to God's curse in multiple passages of "the proud", because proud heroes and ECs alike believed themselves to be unstoppable (hence the CBN cards they pride themselves in).  God usually brings them down in drastic fashion.

In Redemption, there have been so many moments (and I have done this too) where someone plays a CBN card and can't wait to smirk and say something like "and it cannot be negated too".  Since obviously we can never negate a CBN card, I thought of this card to at least make players pause before putting such powerful cards in their decks.  The ability removes them from the game so that they cannot be retrieved later with another card.

Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 04, 2010, 02:24:35 PM
Search opponent's Territory, Hand and Draw Pile for one card (except Saul/Paul or another copy of this card) that says "May not be" OR "Cannot be", followed by "interrupted" OR "negated", and remove it from the game.
I love the ability, but I don't like the wording. You could just say "Search for a card with an ability that cannot be negated or cannot be interrupted," couldn't you? I don't think that would be misinterpreted in any way, although it would probably affect dominants, which this version does not.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: stefferweffer on August 04, 2010, 02:30:22 PM
Search opponent's Territory, Hand and Draw Pile for one card (except Saul/Paul or another copy of this card) that says "May not be" OR "Cannot be", followed by "interrupted" OR "negated", and remove it from the game.
I love the ability, but I don't like the wording. You could just say "Search for a card with an ability that cannot be negated or cannot be interrupted," couldn't you? I don't think that would be misinterpreted in any way, although it would probably affect dominants, which this version does not.
Agree.  Hated that wording.  How does it look now?  Also, I did not want this card to be an infinite look at opponent's hand card, so I added that once none of those remain you have to discard the Curse.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 04, 2010, 03:11:17 PM
You can just say "except Paul" because in deck or hand, the card is Saul, who has no SA.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: JSB23 on August 04, 2010, 04:29:42 PM
I LOVE THIS CARD. but it kills heroless decks.  :-\
It shouldn't.  I put "except Saul/Paul" in the ability.  Not just because heroless needs to remain viable (and TxP just hurt it bad already), but it is also biblical.  With Paul's "thorn in the flesh" God made sure that Paul would not succumb to pride.
Heroless is dead, Prof. Alstad proved that at NC regionals
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Josh on August 05, 2010, 08:13:47 AM
Orange/Gray 6/0 Curse:

Search opponent's Territory, Hand and Draw Pile for one non-Dominant card (except Paul) whose ability is not able to be negated or interrupted, and remove it from the game.  Once none of those remain, discard this card.

As this is written, it's my opinion that it is OP.  I would include this in every deck I make.  The only way it isn't useful is if my opponent doesn't use CBN cards, which means their deck is going to be easier to beat (theoretically).  Even if it was limited to 2 uses per game, I would use it.  Take up one slot in my deck to eliminate 2 of the best cards in opponent's deck?  Yes please.  I include Confusion of Mind in almost every deck I make, even though I know my opponent is going to dump Harvest Time to discard it.  At the very least, it would be in every turtle deck ever made.

It's basically Confusion with fewer targets, but it can be used more often and it doesn't require initiative in battle to use it.  I think this would encourage speed even more, as people would try to get to their CBN enhancements quicker before their opponent could draw this card. 
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: stefferweffer on August 05, 2010, 09:25:25 AM
Thanks.  The original version was a "discard this card to...", and people said it was not powerful enough.  Then I added twice per game, and people said the same thing.  I personally think it should be a twice per game ability, and I will likely change it back to that.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Josh on August 05, 2010, 12:24:31 PM
Thanks.  The original version was a "discard this card to...", and people said it was not powerful enough.  Then I added twice per game, and people said the same thing.  I personally think it should be a twice per game ability, and I will likely change it back to that.
I realize my post sounded very negative.  I would like to say that I LOVE the idea for this card.  I think it would be awesome to have cards that negatively affect CBN cards.  Great card idea  :)  I have one of my own...  I may have to post it  ;)
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on August 06, 2010, 01:23:53 AM
I LOVE THIS CARD. but it kills heroless decks.  :-\
It shouldn't.  I put "except Saul/Paul" in the ability.  Not just because heroless needs to remain viable (and TxP just hurt it bad already), but it is also biblical.  With Paul's "thorn in the flesh" God made sure that Paul would not succumb to pride.
Heroless is dead, Prof. Alstad proved that at NC regionals
How so?
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Master KChief on August 06, 2010, 04:40:22 AM
because heroless was creamed at nc regionals.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Josh on August 06, 2010, 08:12:46 AM
You can just say "except Paul" because in deck or hand, the card is Saul, who has no SA.
No special ability?  Is "This card enters play as Saul.  When Saul repents he becomes Paul." an identifier, not a special ability?  Could you have 3 in a T1 heroless deck? 
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 06, 2010, 09:48:47 AM
You can just say "except Paul" because in deck or hand, the card is Saul, who has no SA.
No special ability?  Is "This card enters play as Saul.  When Saul repents he becomes Paul." an identifier, not a special ability?  Could you have 3 in a T1 heroless deck? 
if it's a special ability, then you can't convert it in a territory.
but Paul is multi color, so only one.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 06, 2010, 10:12:59 AM
but Paul is multi color, so only one.
But you don't put Paul in a deck, you put Saul in a deck.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 06, 2010, 10:32:16 AM
but Paul is multi color, so only one.
But you don't put Paul in a deck, you put Saul in a deck.
I know, lame. because you can definitely still have 5 in T2 (I believe...). but that's the way it was ruled after a very controversial thread.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 06, 2010, 01:12:05 PM
Bad ruling imo.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on August 07, 2010, 12:05:18 AM
because heroless was creamed at nc regionals.
Maybe, Maybe not, yes it lost, but was that due to the deck style? Or the deck itself? Or people prepping etc?
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 07, 2010, 12:14:46 AM
because heroless was creamed at nc regionals.
Maybe, Maybe not, yes it lost, but was that due to the deck style? Or the deck itself? Or people prepping etc?
Prof Alstad is a really good player and deck builder. I highly doubt that if he can't do it, it's still effective.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on August 07, 2010, 12:18:30 AM
because heroless was creamed at nc regionals.
Maybe, Maybe not, yes it lost, but was that due to the deck style? Or the deck itself? Or people prepping etc?
Prof Alstad is a really good player and deck builder. I highly doubt that if he can't do it, it's still effective.
Oh, I know he is, he can beat me senseless in the game but both of us have had people purposefully check in anti-heroless decks for against us so.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 07, 2010, 12:24:16 AM
because heroless was creamed at nc regionals.
Maybe, Maybe not, yes it lost, but was that due to the deck style? Or the deck itself? Or people prepping etc?
Prof Alstad is a really good player and deck builder. I highly doubt that if he can't do it, it's still effective.
Oh, I know he is, he can beat me senseless in the game but both of us have had people purposefully check in anti-heroless decks for against us so.
I'm pretty sure he either went 3 and 3 or 2 and 4. JSB was the only one playing Anti-heroless that I know of.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: JSB23 on August 07, 2010, 12:50:18 AM
because heroless was creamed at nc regionals.
Maybe, Maybe not, yes it lost, but was that due to the deck style? Or the deck itself? Or people prepping etc?
Prof Alstad is a really good player and deck builder. I highly doubt that if he can't do it, it's still effective.
Oh, I know he is, he can beat me senseless in the game but both of us have had people purposefully check in anti-heroless decks for against us so.
I'm pretty sure he either went 3 and 3 or 2 and 4. JSB was the only one playing Anti-heroless that I know of.
I wasn't playing anti-heroless
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Warrior_Monk on August 07, 2010, 12:52:47 AM
because heroless was creamed at nc regionals.
Maybe, Maybe not, yes it lost, but was that due to the deck style? Or the deck itself? Or people prepping etc?
Prof Alstad is a really good player and deck builder. I highly doubt that if he can't do it, it's still effective.
Oh, I know he is, he can beat me senseless in the game but both of us have had people purposefully check in anti-heroless decks for against us so.
I'm pretty sure he either went 3 and 3 or 2 and 4. JSB was the only one playing Anti-heroless that I know of.
I wasn't playing anti-heroless
Alter of Dagon and Lampy.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: JSB23 on August 07, 2010, 01:15:12 AM
because heroless was creamed at nc regionals.
Maybe, Maybe not, yes it lost, but was that due to the deck style? Or the deck itself? Or people prepping etc?
Prof Alstad is a really good player and deck builder. I highly doubt that if he can't do it, it's still effective.
Oh, I know he is, he can beat me senseless in the game but both of us have had people purposefully check in anti-heroless decks for against us so.
I'm pretty sure he either went 3 and 3 or 2 and 4. JSB was the only one playing Anti-heroless that I know of.
I wasn't playing anti-heroless
Alter of Dagon and Lampy.
That was three years ago in a deck  built especially for Jordon
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Master_Chi on August 07, 2010, 12:58:45 PM
because heroless was creamed at nc regionals.
Maybe, Maybe not, yes it lost, but was that due to the deck style? Or the deck itself? Or people prepping etc?
Prof Alstad is a really good player and deck builder. I highly doubt that if he can't do it, it's still effective.
Oh, I know he is, he can beat me senseless in the game but both of us have had people purposefully check in anti-heroless decks for against us so.
I'm pretty sure he either went 3 and 3 or 2 and 4. JSB was the only one playing Anti-heroless that I know of.
I wasn't playing anti-heroless
Alter of Dagon and Lampy.

I don't play "Anti-Heroless" and I use Altar of Dagon....... But then again, I'm partial to Philistines.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: Professoralstad on August 11, 2010, 12:04:06 PM
because heroless was creamed at nc regionals.
Maybe, Maybe not, yes it lost, but was that due to the deck style? Or the deck itself? Or people prepping etc?
Prof Alstad is a really good player and deck builder. I highly doubt that if he can't do it, it's still effective.
Oh, I know he is, he can beat me senseless in the game but both of us have had people purposefully check in anti-heroless decks for against us so.
I'm pretty sure he either went 3 and 3 or 2 and 4. JSB was the only one playing Anti-heroless that I know of.

I actually "technically" went 4-2, but two of my wins were Timeouts, and one was a bye, so...It was really the first two games that defined the tournament for me. And just because The Heroless of the North has been laid to rest, it doesn't mean that the entire archetype is dead. I'm just not convinced that it has the tournament-winning potential that it once had. It can still win games, just not enough of them.

Also, I never played Josh in T1-2P at Regionals. I was near the bottom of the ranks for most of the tournament.
Title: Re: Bringing Down the Proud
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on August 11, 2010, 12:16:35 PM
I agree with Prof, Heroless has been hit HARD. Hero-Lite is still extremely powerful though.
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