Author Topic: Brigade Icons? (Read 15520 times)

Eragon5 · « **on:** June 12, 2015, 12:33:11 PM »

Anyway brigade icons can be added to the new set? The reason I ask is because I know someone who is color blind and won't play redemption because of it. It's a lot to ask for just probably a handful of people (probably not to many color blind redemption players out there), and at this point it would probably be a bad idea since so many cards have been printed without, but is this a good idea?
It's probably not worth the time to fix but would brigade icons be something you would want or be beneficial.
Feel free to post any/all input.
Thanks

Professoralstad · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2015, 12:59:51 PM »

Quote from: Eragon5 on June 12, 2015, 12:33:11 PM

Anyway brigade icons can be added to the new set? The reason I ask is because I know someone who is color blind and won't play redemption because of it. It's a lot to ask for just probably a handful of people (probably not to many color blind redemption players out there), and at this point it would probably be a bad idea since so many cards have been printed without, but is this a good idea?
It's probably not worth the time to fix but would brigade icons be something you would want or be beneficial.
Feel free to post any/all input.
Thanks

That would be a cool idea. I'd guess the issue would that it would take considerable effort to redo the standard template, and that's probably not an investment Cactus could make at this point. However, perhaps if your friend was able to label their cards somehow...it obviously might affect their trade values. Another thing would be to have a decklist of cards they would use, and write the brigades of each card on the list.

Redoubter · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2015, 01:05:40 PM »

Would there be an option for this player to have something like Lackey's deck-builder up on a laptop while playing? That would allow them to look up the cards and see the names of the brigades for any cards through the game?

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2015, 01:42:53 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on June 12, 2015, 12:59:51 PM

Quote from: Eragon5 on June 12, 2015, 12:33:11 PM
Anyway brigade icons can be added to the new set? The reason I ask is because I know someone who is color blind and won't play redemption because of it. It's a lot to ask for just probably a handful of people (probably not to many color blind redemption players out there), and at this point it would probably be a bad idea since so many cards have been printed without, but is this a good idea?
It's probably not worth the time to fix but would brigade icons be something you would want or be beneficial.
Feel free to post any/all input.
Thanks

That would be a cool idea. I'd guess the issue would that it would take considerable effort to redo the standard template, and that's probably not an investment Cactus could make at this point. However, perhaps if your friend was able to label their cards somehow...it obviously might affect their trade values. Another thing would be to have a decklist of cards they would use, and write the brigades of each card on the list.

A better idea than labelling cards, is putting a label in the sleeves perhaps, that way it won't affect the card value, and can be moved around. Like maybe put a little paper saying "Green" in a sleeve for a green card.

I would still be in favor of brigade icons or something like that, while I don't usually think of myself as colorblind (I only have a minor issue that I discovered in one of the most nerdy ways possible) and I rarely have issues with Redemption brigades, but Clay and Silver look fairly similar to me (I can easily tell them apart if I compare them, but sometimes I'm not sure when I just look at one... this is mostly an issue with sites and because I don't have The Early Church memorized yet).

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 12, 2015, 02:14:12 PM »

Quote from: ChristianSoldier on June 12, 2015, 01:42:53 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on June 12, 2015, 12:59:51 PM
Quote from: Eragon5 on June 12, 2015, 12:33:11 PM
Anyway brigade icons can be added to the new set? The reason I ask is because I know someone who is color blind and won't play redemption because of it.
However, perhaps if your friend was able to label their cards somehow...it obviously might affect their trade values. Another thing would be to have a decklist of cards they would use, and write the brigades of each card on the list.
A better idea than labelling cards, is putting a label in the sleeves perhaps, that way it won't affect the card value, and can be moved around. Like maybe put a little paper saying "Green" in a sleeve for a green card.

I am guessing the issue wouldn't be limited to (or even primarily with) his/her deck--but in being able to understand what your opponent is playing. When I play against someone using unexpected cards, I have a hard enough time. I can't even imagine how hard it would be with the added drawback of not being able to tell what brigade a card might be.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2015, 02:21:48 PM »

Agreed. However, I would think most people would try to be accomodating as possible (as long as your friend doesnt mind mentioning their colorblindness). That would include reminding them which colors a certain card is. Inconvenient, to be sure, but hopefully not entirely limiting. Im not familiar with other CCGs, though I do know that some of them use colors as part of the gameplay. Is it standard for them to have something like that?

browarod · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2015, 02:44:48 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on June 12, 2015, 02:21:48 PM

Im not familiar with other CCGs, though I do know that some of them use colors as part of the gameplay. Is it standard for them to have something like that?

MtG has colors represented also by differing icons (a sun for white, a tree for green, etc.). Pokemon energy cards have differing symbols to accompany their colors. Yu-Gi-Oh! has different kanji along with different colors for different card types/alignments (and I believe has a tiny word for the type/alignment above the symbol as well).

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2015, 02:48:36 PM »

In Magic the Gathering the colors are represented by symbols and Pokemon has symbols for colors too. In Lord of the rings there is also symbols and so do yugioh and digimon. So yes it seems fairly standardized, however, I don't think its necessary. If a person is colorblind all he has to do is look at the data base to build his own deck and his opponent can tell him the colors he is playing with.

Instaposted***

Daniel · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2015, 04:21:17 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on June 12, 2015, 12:59:51 PM

it would take considerable effort to redo the standard template, and that's probably not an investment Cactus could make at this point.

*rolls eyes*

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2015, 08:54:25 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit on June 12, 2015, 02:48:36 PM

If a person is colorblind all he has to do is look at the data base to build his own deck and his opponent can tell him the colors he is playing with.

"Of course Moses can use Search. It's CBN on all Green Brigade Prophets, including Moses."

kariusvega · « **Reply #10 on:** June 12, 2015, 09:31:23 PM »

Quote from: Daniel on June 12, 2015, 04:21:17 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on June 12, 2015, 12:59:51 PM
it would take considerable effort to redo the standard template, and that's probably not an investment Cactus could make at this point.

*rolls eyes*

i feel you man but like i said before same reason as before.. it would take basically a whole reboot of the game to make it happen.. i understand your position and your designs are fantastic, but realistically the game does have 20 years of running consistency :p

kariusvega · « **Reply #11 on:** June 12, 2015, 09:40:11 PM »

Quote from: Eragon5 on June 12, 2015, 12:33:11 PM

Anyway brigade icons can be added to the new set? The reason I ask is because I know someone who is color blind and won't play redemption because of it. It's a lot to ask for just probably a handful of people (probably not to many color blind redemption players out there), and at this point it would probably be a bad idea since so many cards have been printed without, but is this a good idea?
It's probably not worth the time to fix but would brigade icons be something you would want or be beneficial.
Feel free to post any/all input.
Thanks

hey man maybe your friend can get some glasses like this guy did? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTpCTDwjHZQ otherwise you can always play son of god to rescue his lost soul (and maybe then he will see!) *ba dum pshh* blessings..

Soundman2 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2015, 10:16:36 PM »

We Shouldn't have to retool anything, just put the Brigade in the Identifier (if space) or down in the empty space by the copy write info (if space and player is not as old as Bill) on the new cards going foreword.

Redoubter · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2015, 05:28:51 AM »

Quote from: Soundman2 on June 12, 2015, 10:16:36 PM

We Shouldn't have to retool anything, just put the Brigade in the Identifier (if space) or down in the empty space by the copy write info (if space and player is not as old as Bill) on the new cards going foreword.

Well, that really isn't as easy as it sounds, as much as we'd like it to be (especially the identifier part, those are crowded enough these days), and it also does not solve any issues for previous cards. We would have to do a considerable retool on the current card design process; not saying it would be impossible, but it does represent time and resources that Cactus may not have at this time (remember that Redemption brings in very little for the company, yet Rob still puts a lot of time into it instead of other, more profitable enterprises).

Quote from: Daniel on June 12, 2015, 11:56:13 PM

There's no reason to redesign the whole template just to put an identifier for the brigade color. "But it's too much effort" seems to be the standard answer. I'm not even saying cactus needs to change anything.

Daniel, you don't know what goes into the design or printing of the cards currently, or how everything is set up. You also seem to have a bad attitude from the outset, assuming much and understanding little as you post things that are not actually contributing to the conversation (a post that is literally "*rolls eyes*" is not appropriate or helpful).

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2015, 06:33:12 AM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on June 12, 2015, 08:54:25 PM

Quote from: TheHobbit on June 12, 2015, 02:48:36 PM
If a person is colorblind all he has to do is look at the data base to build his own deck and his opponent can tell him the colors he is playing with.
"Of course Moses can use Search. It's CBN on all Green Brigade Prophets, including Moses."

I hope that you are not suggesting that people would cheat, because I have been assured that cheating is an anomaly that only happens at my tournaments.

Quote from: Daniel on June 12, 2015, 04:21:17 PM

*rolls eyes*

There's actually an emoticon for that already.

Quote from: Eragon5 on June 12, 2015, 12:33:11 PM

Anyway brigade icons can be added to the new set?

Personally I love this idea!

Not only does it help those who need it, but I see other benefits as well:

1.) It could be used to shorten some SAs by using a symbol instead of a word, "If used by a @ character, ..."
2.) It could simultaneously increase the use of older cards that were printed without civilization consideration, "Wait, the Warriors King of Tyrus is @!"
3.) It would eliminate the confusion between good gold and evil gold.
4.) It would be really cool!
5.) It would be so cool that we would want to create t-shirts and avatars with them.

Daniel · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2015, 10:13:15 AM »

Quote from: Redoubter on June 13, 2015, 05:28:51 AM

Quote from: Daniel on June 12, 2015, 11:56:13 PM
There's no reason to redesign the whole template just to put an identifier for the brigade color. "But it's too much effort" seems to be the standard answer. I'm not even saying cactus needs to change anything.
Daniel, you don't know what goes into the design or printing of the cards currently, or how everything is set up. You also seem to have a bad attitude from the outset, assuming much and understanding little as you post things that are not actually contributing to the conversation (a post that is literally "*rolls eyes*" is not appropriate or helpful).

My *rolls eyes* post is a lighthearted nod to the fact that I've redesigned the template many times and sent Rob ideas for improving the card design.

Also, and I do not mean to sound arrogant, but I work with print design on a daily basis. As far as I know, Rob uses Quark XPress (or if he has upgraded, Adobe InDesign) to lay the cards out.

If the identifer space is not large enough, what about a small circular icon to the right of the card?

kariusvega · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2015, 10:48:22 AM »

Quote from: Daniel on June 13, 2015, 10:13:15 AM

Quote from: Redoubter on June 13, 2015, 05:28:51 AM
Quote from: Daniel on June 12, 2015, 11:56:13 PM
There's no reason to redesign the whole template just to put an identifier for the brigade color. "But it's too much effort" seems to be the standard answer. I'm not even saying cactus needs to change anything.
Daniel, you don't know what goes into the design or printing of the cards currently, or how everything is set up. You also seem to have a bad attitude from the outset, assuming much and understanding little as you post things that are not actually contributing to the conversation (a post that is literally "*rolls eyes*" is not appropriate or helpful).
My *rolls eyes* post is a lighthearted nod to the fact that I've redesigned the template many times and sent Rob ideas for improving the card design.

Also, and I do not mean to sound arrogant, but I work with print design on a daily basis. As far as I know, Rob uses Quark XPress (or if he has upgraded, Adobe InDesign) to lay the cards out.

If the identifer space is not large enough, what about a small circular icon to the right of the card?

yeah man i totally agree with you, your card designs are awesome. i would love to see your card designs used eventually, if they can adopt them. i mean if you look at other card games like redemption you can see an obvious evolution in their card designs to even very extreme changes that it almost looks like it's from a different game. i love your designs and would love to see them in the game but from a print side i understand how an investor could be hesitant considering the cost of reprint. maybe just printing the further on sets with them could work but i can see people being confused at first looking at them thinking "wow! they look completely different!" not a bad thing aesthetically, but logically may throw some people off at first trying to figure out now what means what it meant before. for the most part i see the parallels in your design but i also come with a design background :p

don't give up on your designs for redemption! they are the best i have seen next to the son of god with dore on it that's my favorite card atm haha

redemption is a christian game and a lot of people will try a game for the cool factor which your designs totally bring

Professoralstad · « **Reply #17 on:** June 13, 2015, 01:48:46 PM »

Just to point out, I am not at all familiar with the cost/effort involved with changing the card layout. It is certainly possible, but I was just guessing...it would of course be up to Rob to determine if the requisite effort is feasible. I do think it's a cool idea, and while I very much doubt it would be feasible for the next set, which is pretty close to getting prepared to print in order to be available for Nationals, it is certainly possible to see what might work the next time around.

Also, I'm not sure if other CCGs that use brigade icons have split color/multi color cards, but if so, do they just have all applicable icons on the card? Just curious. If this is ever going to be a reality, then we have to try to take all situations into consideration.

Daniel · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2015, 02:19:09 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on June 13, 2015, 01:48:46 PM

Also, I'm not sure if other CCGs that use brigade icons have split color/multi color cards, but if so, do they just have all applicable icons on the card? Just curious. If this is ever going to be a reality, then we have to try to take all situations into consideration.

I don't even know very many TCGs that still use colors like Redemption does, but MTG's two-colored cards use the mana icons of both colors. The thing is, Redemption has way too many brigades to come up with a unique symbol for all of them while keeping them easy to memorize. Perhaps just the first letter of the brigade color? (R=Red, P=Pale-Green, W=White)

Sadness · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2015, 06:32:30 PM »

Instead of marking the individual cards, why don't you mark the card sleeves. With masking tape or black markers.

Jesusman · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2015, 08:58:49 PM »

Quote from: Sadness on June 13, 2015, 06:32:30 PM

Instead of marking the individual cards, why don't you mark the card sleeves. With masking tape or black markers.

Only thing I can see wrong about that would be one of two things:

A) It could be seen as if "marking" the deck, or cheating, rather than an aid for helping someone with vision problems.

B) It would make sense.

Redoubter · « **Reply #21 on:** June 13, 2015, 09:19:12 PM »

Quote from: Jesusman on June 13, 2015, 08:58:49 PM

Only thing I can see wrong about that would be one of two things:

A) It could be seen as if "marking" the deck, or cheating, rather than an aid for helping someone with vision problems.

B) It would make sense.

To the first part, there is no problem with marking the fronts of sleeves in a way that doesn't leave a 'bump' or 'bulge' that lets the card stand out. I have personally used marker on penny sleeves (first layer of protection for my cards...at least until the new sets, which are too big) to designate what cards I use when transforming between T1 and T2. It is only required that the backs be exactly the same and that there is no difference between cards as they sit in deck (including the feel while you are shuffling). As for the second part, hopefully that's just an attempt at a joke, though it is odd why so many people just want to assume (or make comments insinuating) that people who love and play the game like to do nonsensical things to it.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2015, 09:53:24 PM »

It seems that recent events have put everyone on edge, reading into everything that is being said these days. I pray that we as a community learn to forgive, show mercy, and maybe even turn the other cheek as part of the healing process we apparently need.

Jesusman · « **Reply #23 on:** June 13, 2015, 10:24:54 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on June 13, 2015, 09:19:12 PM

As for the second part, hopefully that's just an attempt at a joke, though it is odd why so many people just want to assume (or make comments insinuating) that people who love and play the game like to do nonsensical things to it.

Just an FYI:

It's called humor ... maybe with a little sarcasm mixed in ... hence why I added the little silly face emote next to it, so people wouldn't take that specific comment seriously.

On a side note,

It is my experience that what makes sense is usually the last thing considered or done. In this case, the idea is raised of coming out with a whole new printing of cards and a set up for people with vision problems when the solution is simple, cheap, effective, and would work with past cards ... mark the front of the sleeve. My only concern, as I pointed out, is it being mistaken for cheating.

Jesusman

Sadness · « **Reply #24 on:** June 13, 2015, 10:53:38 PM »

The thing about cheating...is you better have definite proof that your opponent is cheating. And it's probably best to let a mod or tournament host handle that after he or she has been informed. The other reason for marking card sleeves might be a eye problem. ..poor eyesight, old age, bifocals, color blindness or a new player not knowing any better(generally a young kid).

News:

Author Topic: Brigade Icons? (Read 15520 times)

browarod

TheHobbit13

Daniel

kariusvega

kariusvega

Daniel

kariusvega

Daniel