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Umm...the bible says there will be an Antichrist. Oh wait, you don't trust the Bible. Nevermind...

In revelation it talks about him it just doesnt call him the "Anti-christ".

I am looking for book-chapter-verse, not some random grenade reference of an entire book...

Even so, the New Card Ideas forum is not the place for it. I'll keep this in here for the time being, but I'd appreciate further debate on the topic going on in Open Discussion.

Sorry Tim...

Like I said I did not want to create a theological debate.
I was simply trying to point out that card names/ideas need to have a biblical basic, particular a specific verse to back them up. The anti-christ does not have that basis in Revelation. However cards like the beast from the earth, from the sea, the false prophet all do.  Yes they are all images that represent Satan who is the "anti" to all that is God and Christ.

Quote from: Colin Michael on March 28, 2009, 02:25:07 PM

Quote from: littlenumberedmusicians on March 28, 2009, 11:01:31 AM

does any one not agree with me?

I don't see any reason that Jesus is the king of all animals.

1. who made the animals? and who can kill them instantly?

2. i said the lion is the king of all animals and what i meant by that was. jesus is the lion and jesus is the lamb. he is the lion because he is the king. he is the lamb because the lamb represents sacrifice. jesus sacrificed him self for us. and he is our king.

Musician just made a good, sound, logical explanation that is fairly legible    I'm just *sniff* so proud 

Alright then, if he gets to do that, then I get to explain how Jesus is Lucifer.

We know the origins of the word Luficer:


   

Isa 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

This is the verse from which the idea of Lucifer as a fallen angel is derrived. This verse, however, is a prophesy about King Nebaccadnezzer.

But Lucifer is a Latin word! Why is it in our English Bibles?

The Latin word "lucifer" literally means "light bringer" from lux, lucis, "light", and ferre, "to bear, bring". As you may know, in German, all nouns are capitalised; this is the same in Old English (which is rooted in German). The word lucifer was left in Latin when translated from the Vulgate into English (for reasons unknown) and was never un-capitalised in later translations.

Isaiah 14:12, however, is not the only mentions of "lucifer" in the Bible.

    2 Peter 1:19 (Vulgate) et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris.

    2 Peter 1:19 (English) We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

   

2 Peter 1:19 (Greek) καὶ ἔχομεν βεβαιότερον τὸν προφητικὸν λόγον ᾧ καλῶς ποιεῖτε προσέχοντες ὡς λύχνῳ φαίνοντι ἐν αὐχμηρῷ τόπῳ ἕως οὗ ἡμέρα διαυγάσῃ καὶ φωσφόρος ἀνατείλῃ ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ὑμῶν

The Greek word that Vulgate translates lucifer is φωσφόρος (transliterated: phōsphoros), which is defined by Strong's as:

    1)) light bringing, giving light

    2) the planet Venus, the morning star, day star

    3) metaph. Christ

In the old testament Vulgate, in addition to the verse in Isaiah, the world lucifer appears twice in Job.


   

Job 11:17 (Vulgate)et quasi meridianus fulgor consurget tibi ad vesperam et cum te consumptum putaveris orieris ut lucifer

   

Job 11:17 (English) And [your] life would be brighter than noonday. [Though] you were dark, you would be like the morning.

    Job 38:32 (Vulgate) numquid producis luciferum in tempore suo et vesperum super filios terrae consurgere facis

    Job 38:32 (English) Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

(Mazzaroth is the twelfth sign of the zodiac in Babylonian tradition).

In the book of Revelations, the words used for the "morning star" are different in both the Greek and the Latin.

    Rev 2:28 (English) and I will give him the morning star.

    Rev 2:28 (Greek) καὶ δώσω αὐτῷ τὸν ἀστέρα τὸν πρωϊνόν

   

Rev 2:28 (Vulgate) icut et ego accepi a Patre meo et dabo illi stellam matutinam

In Revelation 22:16, we learn that Jesus is apparently the morning star.

    Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star."

Rev 22:16 (Greek) Ἐγὼ Ἰησοῦς ἔπεμψα τὸν ἄγγελόν μου μαρτυρῆσαι ὑμῖν ταῦτα ἐπὶ ταῖς ἐκκλησίαις ἐγώ εἰμι ἡ ῥίζα καὶ τὸ γένος τοῦ Δαβίδ, ὁ ἀστὴρ ὁ λαμπρὸς καὶ ὀρθρινός

   

Rev 22:16 ego Iesus misi angelum meum testificari vobis haec in ecclesiis ego sum radix et genus David] stella splendida et matutina

From this, the Roman Rite liturgy is taken:


   

Flammas eius lucifer matutinus inveniat:
    ille, inquam, lucifer, qui nescit occasum,
    Christus Filius tuus qui,
    regressus ab inferis,
    humano generi serenus illuxit,
    et vivit et regnat in saecula saeculorum.

    May the Morning Star which never sets
    find this flame still burning:
    Christ, that Morning Star,
    who came back from the dead,
    and shed his peaceful light on all mankind,
    your Son, who lives and reigns for ever and ever.

Am I missing something? Where does it say or imply that?

Aaaand this discussion has stopped being relevant to the point of the post. Sadly, I must lock this.