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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: Gabe on May 02, 2011, 04:04:03 PM

Title: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Gabe on May 02, 2011, 04:04:03 PM
How often have you lost a game, mostly because your opponent went first and then played Mayhem after the draw 3 on your turn? 

Because you don't get a chance to play most card types before Mayhem hits we're pretty limited to what can be used for a counter.  Here are a couple ideas for cards that would help bring balance to the impact of a first turn Mayhem.  I'd love to hear other players ideas.  Bonus points for thinking outside the box! :)

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Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: browarod on May 02, 2011, 04:25:42 PM
I'm not really sure how the repeat part works on the dominant. Wouldn't everyone's hands be the same size after the first shuffle and, thus, cause nothing else to be shuffled?

I like the LS, though shouldn't it be opponents' not opponent's?
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 02, 2011, 04:49:59 PM
ANB counters first turn Mayhem. Everybody should just start playing that!

Love the lost soul, not exactly sure how Eye for an Eye would work with it's wording. It'd be worse than Mayhem though...play every thing down, you have one card in your hand with tons of heroes. Their turn, they D3, you Eye For An Eye, and both of you have zero cards in hand, except you have characters.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 02, 2011, 05:32:44 PM
All you need is an intro prep phase to stop first turn mayhems, either that or a good old fashion biblical beat down after the round. We'll show them mayhem... :maul:

here is my idea

That only counts as one!
Good Dominant
If your opponent played Mayhem during their first turn shuffle one card from your hand or territory into deck to draw six.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: SomeKittens on May 02, 2011, 05:39:59 PM
Let's take care of another problem simultaneously!

Protection of God (fortress)
Plays to set aside area.  Regardless of protection, search deck or discard pile for Thaddeus and place here to protect your hand and deck (hehe) from shuffle for any reason.  If your opponent has played Mayhem this game, you may draw six.  Thaddeus may not be removed from Protection of God.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: browarod on May 02, 2011, 05:43:06 PM
@Hobbit - Should be "your" first turn, not theirs, lol.

@Kittens - LOL!

Random idea I thought of:

Chaos
[Black Curse | Isaiah 34:11]
Each time a deck is shuffled, its owner reveals the top 2 cards. You may add one revealed card (except a Dominant) to your hand. Limit once per turn and twice per game.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 02, 2011, 05:52:04 PM
Chaos
[Black Curse | Isaiah 34:11]
Each time a deck is shuffled, its owner reveals the top 2 cards. You may add one revealed card to your hand. Limit once per turn and twice per game.
Non-Dominant, please. We don't need another way to steal Soggy.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: browarod on May 02, 2011, 05:56:47 PM
Teh fixed.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Gabe on May 02, 2011, 06:50:33 PM
I'm not really sure how the repeat part works on the dominant. Wouldn't everyone's hands be the same size after the first shuffle and, thus, cause nothing else to be shuffled?

...not exactly sure how Eye for an Eye would work with it's wording. It'd be worse than Mayhem though...play every thing down, you have one card in your hand with tons of heroes. Their turn, they D3, you Eye For An Eye, and both of you have zero cards in hand, except you have characters.

The idea for Eye for an Eye is to counter the massive card advantage gained by Mayhem.  If they fill their territory (or set-aside area) with the cards from their hand (Forts, Sites, Arts, Characters, etc) then play Mayhem, they have a massive card advantage based on the cards they retain on the table.  

When you play E4aE it brings everyone's hand to the same size as the player who has the least cards.  Then you repeat the process (do the same thing) for each card type in play.  Do they have 2 Heroes and you have none?  They shuffle those 2 back into their deck.  Did they activate an Artifact but you have none?  They shuffle it into their deck.  Same for any other card type they put down trying to gain an advantage on you.

I like the LS, though shouldn't it be opponents' not opponent's?

Good catch!
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: browarod on May 02, 2011, 07:12:02 PM
OH! That makes so much more sense when you explain it, lol. I rather like that idea, but it seems overly powerful (and we already have enough overly powerful dominants *cough*Mayhem/Soggy/NJ*cough*).
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 02, 2011, 07:14:36 PM
Did browarod just call Mayhem overly powerful? I guess we're rubbing off on him.  :)

I'd play Goshen/Kerith Ravine + E4aE then...
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Gabe on May 02, 2011, 07:30:34 PM
I'd play Goshen/Kerith Ravine + E4aE then...

Characters follow Fortresses (just like ANB) so unless all players have a good Fort that doesn't really help you...
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 02, 2011, 07:33:17 PM
Oh, right. Well, there goes me trying to break it. Great card!
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Gabe on May 02, 2011, 07:34:48 PM
More ideas to stop 1st turn Mayhem, but only if your opponent makes a RA/BC.

Create an Evil Character with an ability similar to Simon the Zealot, so your hand is protected while he remains in play.

Create an Evil Character with an ability that says "Look at opponent's hand, choose an evil card and discard it.

Oh, right. Well, there goes me trying to break it. Great card!

I know you don't give up on breaking cards that easily! :)
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Minister Polarius on May 02, 2011, 07:35:58 PM
Excellent cards! An intro-prep would be better than a Mayhem cold-counter, but these are good cards nonetheless. AEfAE, besides having an awesome acronym, would also make a good Disciples counter as well. I somehow doubt anyone not using Disciples is going to have 11 Heroes in play.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 02, 2011, 07:37:50 PM
Oh, right. Well, there goes me trying to break it. Great card!

I know you don't give up on breaking cards that easily! :)
Well, for fake cards I do. I'd prefer to let it slide into the next set and then try to break it.  ;)

Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Gabe on May 02, 2011, 07:39:54 PM
Well, for fake cards I do. I'd prefer to let it slide into the next set and then try to break it.  ;)

*Note to self* - make sure they never let Andrew become a play tester. ;)
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Smokey on May 02, 2011, 09:04:05 PM
For AEfAE, It's a cool concept, but too easily abuseable. I'm not entirely sure of the order of operations, but Nazereth and House in Rimmon protect from it assuming ECs are targeted before Forts. It hurts fortress heavy strategies (Egyptians come to mind), and is biased towards strategies that can get heroes out quickly (Genesis and Disciples come to mind). If you have no defense, you can use this to wipe out your opponents defenses and walk in for free souls.

For the Lost Soul, This would work better than a dominant but it's more random and it would cause mass ragequits if it was drawn on the d6.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 02, 2011, 09:39:15 PM
Yeah... Eye for an Eye is a bit much. As smokey said, play it when you have no evil cards out and you get an instant win.

*EDIT*

Idea for the lost soul:

"While in play, restrict opponents from playing evil dominants except during the battle phase."
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Isildur on May 03, 2011, 12:46:06 AM
I personally like the lost soul more then the Dom. there are enough ways to rescue or negate the lost soul SA that it makes it not op'd.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: SomeKittens on May 03, 2011, 11:47:13 AM
I personally like the lost soul more then the Dom. there are enough ways to rescue or negate the lost soul SA that it makes it not op'd.
The LS is far more useful. 
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Master KChief on May 03, 2011, 01:28:25 PM
eye for an eye reminds me of balance from mtg.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: CJSports on May 03, 2011, 03:48:48 PM
Evil Dominant
Eye for an Eye
If opponent used mayhem immediately after your draw phase this game you search opponent's deck for 6 cards and discard them.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 03, 2011, 03:55:00 PM
Cards that don't say Mayhem specifically are good. Cards that say Mayhem specifically are as good as Achan.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: browarod on May 03, 2011, 03:58:37 PM
Cards that don't say Mayhem specifically are good. Cards that say Mayhem specifically are as good as Achan.
That's my thinking, too, lol.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Ken4Christ4ever on May 03, 2011, 04:13:41 PM
Cards that don't say Mayhem specifically are good. Cards that say Mayhem specifically are as good as Achan.

Who's that? ;)
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: megamanlan on May 03, 2011, 04:31:00 PM
I don't know, everytime Mayhem or another 'shuffle & draw' card was played on me, it helped me, but I've never had it played on the first turn when I had a good hand... (Which isn't often...)

I would suggest an Anti-Shuffle Card and put in a bonus like: "If the Opponent has a Mayhem in the first 10 Cards of their discard pile, Discard (or Remove) this Card to Draw 6" Something like that.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Minister Polarius on May 03, 2011, 07:26:32 PM
How about something like:

Slow to Anger
something something
-X=Number of Dominants in opponent's Discard pile, Y=Number of rounds played-
"Draw 4X-Y cards."
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Isildur on May 03, 2011, 07:31:32 PM
Brain hurts just thinking about that and type 2 or even a type 1 game lol
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Minister Polarius on May 03, 2011, 07:44:51 PM
Number of rounds is pretty easy to determine, and you'd never have to remember past 7.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: megamanlan on May 03, 2011, 11:59:34 PM
I like it! We get Algebra in Redemption! lol
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: SomeKittens on May 04, 2011, 03:20:06 AM
I like it! We get Algebra in Redemption! lol
As long as we don't start doing trig.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Isildur on May 05, 2011, 12:19:08 AM
well with Bryon making cards we might ::)
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: megamanlan on May 05, 2011, 01:57:20 AM
Why don't we start making cards that have us trying to remember the law of Gravity or the laws of Thermodynamics, that would be fun! lol.....
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 05, 2011, 08:43:41 AM
I would be concerned if you could somehow forget the law of gravity...
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: browarod on May 05, 2011, 12:58:33 PM
Weightless
[Good Dominant]
Raise this card in the air (minimum 2 feet) and let it go. If it falls up, you win the game. If it falls down, your opponent can take every card from your deck except Lost Souls and Dominants. Then you must say "I'm a loser" and make an L-shape on your forehead with your thumb and forefinger.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: lightningninja on May 05, 2011, 02:04:33 PM
I feel an eye for an eye would be rather powerful... speed deck with almost no evil characters can clear the field now? Ouch.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: SomeKittens on May 05, 2011, 02:08:45 PM
I think we should make a confusion reprint with integrals.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Gabe on May 05, 2011, 02:22:20 PM
I feel an eye for an eye would be rather powerful... speed deck with almost no evil characters can clear the field now? Ouch.

At the cost of also losing their Hero and hand size advantage... ::)
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: megamanlan on May 05, 2011, 04:05:15 PM
I mean't calculating gravity x # of Heroes in Territory - # of EC's in Opponent's Territory / The number of cards in ur deck is the number u draw.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on May 05, 2011, 07:29:26 PM
and hand size advantage... ::)

They could play it at the start of their turn when their hand is lower...  ;)
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: lightningninja on May 05, 2011, 07:44:03 PM
I feel an eye for an eye would be rather powerful... speed deck with almost no evil characters can clear the field now? Ouch.

At the cost of also losing their Hero and hand size advantage... ::)
Hm... true. But I do feel like making your opponent lose all but one, or perhaps just all, evil characters is worth losing a couple of heroes.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 05, 2011, 07:51:55 PM
I feel an eye for an eye would be rather powerful... speed deck with almost no evil characters can clear the field now? Ouch.

At the cost of also losing their Hero and hand size advantage... ::)
Hm... true. But I do feel like making your opponent lose all but one, or perhaps just all, evil characters is worth losing a couple of heroes.
They have just as many evil characters as you, and just as many heroes as you. Even playing grounds.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 05, 2011, 08:04:16 PM
Not when heroes carry different wait, which is not already accounted for by a cost system.

well with Bryon making cards we might ::)

Tell him we should do factorials.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: lightningninja on May 05, 2011, 08:13:09 PM
Not when heroes carry different wait, which is not already accounted for by a cost system.
Exactly. If you each have 1 hero, and 0 evil character, but it's YOUR turn, you have a very clear advantage over your opponent.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: megamanlan on May 08, 2011, 10:16:33 PM
Gravity Force
1/1 Multi Good Enhancement
X=The Number of EC's in play
Drop this Card on the ground. Calcuate the Effect of Gravity on this Card, and divide X by that Number and draw that number of cards. (Round up) Then Discard a Character in play.

How's that?
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: TheHobbit13 on May 08, 2011, 10:19:31 PM
how is this anti mayhem?
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: lp670sv on May 08, 2011, 10:21:15 PM
Gravity Force
1/1 Multi Good Enhancement
X=The Number of EC's in play
Drop this Card on the ground. Calcuate the Effect of Gravity on this Card, and divide X by that Number and draw that number of cards. (Round up) Then Discard a Character in play.

How's that?

They would need 9 ECs in play to draw one card....this card seems completely pointless
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 08, 2011, 11:12:11 PM
how is this anti mayhem?
Who said we were still on the original topic?
Gravity Force
1/1 Multi Good Enhancement
X=The Number of EC's in play
Drop this Card on the ground. Calcuate the Effect of Gravity on this Card, and divide X by that Number and draw that number of cards. (Round up) Then Discard a Character in play.

How's that?
What if X=0?  :o
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: lp670sv on May 08, 2011, 11:19:59 PM
What if X=0?  :o


they divide X by the force of gravity so it's still 0. Now if they were dividing that number by X and X were 0 a black whole would open up and the whole universe would be destroyed. thats how physics works
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: SomeKittens on May 08, 2011, 11:26:09 PM
Which is why math needs to stay out of Redemption.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: lp670sv on May 08, 2011, 11:31:13 PM
Which is why math needs to stay out of Redemption.

math needs to stay out of life.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: megamanlan on May 09, 2011, 12:29:17 AM
I said round up, so u draw 1
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: SomeKittens on May 09, 2011, 12:35:05 AM
Which is why math needs to stay out of Redemption.

math needs to stay out of life.
and Computer Science majors.....
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: lp670sv on May 09, 2011, 12:37:21 AM
Which is why math needs to stay out of Redemption.

math needs to stay out of life.
and Computer Science majors.....
college is included in life.

even rounding up doesn't address the fact that you need 10 cards to make this anything more then a "draw a card" ability even if you have 30 ECs out you only drew 3 cards.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: megamanlan on May 09, 2011, 01:13:05 AM
So? I don't want an OP'd random card. Unless u want me to make it that u multiply instead of divide. Plus it includes ur opponents too.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: lp670sv on May 09, 2011, 01:16:06 AM
So? I don't want an OP'd random card. Unless u want me to make it that u multiply instead of divide. Plus it includes ur opponents too.
[/quote

Any card that has any math involving the force of gravity (9.8 m/s) is pointless. you either draw one or none depending on how you round. Plus how are you going to expect young kids playing the game to know the force of gravity?
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: megamanlan on May 09, 2011, 01:19:00 AM
I'm not, it's supposed to be a fun card not an actual card idea.

A totally random card would be:

"Both players Draw X Cards"
Identifer: X= The Cards in your Deck.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: SomeKittens on May 09, 2011, 11:29:26 AM
90% of the time X would be replaced with (16-number of cards in hand)
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: megamanlan on May 09, 2011, 12:07:03 PM
Why? The limit can only trigger at the end of the turn. That's how the game has always worked.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: SomeKittens on May 09, 2011, 12:38:47 PM
The limit of 8 cards triggers at the end of turn.  You can never have > 16 cards in your hand at any time.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: megamanlan on May 09, 2011, 01:16:40 PM
I never heard that before. And it's not in the rulebook that I have and I have the newest one.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: SomeKittens on May 09, 2011, 02:06:37 PM
I never heard that before. And it's not in the rulebook that I have and I have the newest one.
...Which is still five years old.  Ask any elder.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: browarod on May 09, 2011, 02:15:39 PM
After Nats last year, I believe, is when they officialized that rule. You can never have more than 16 cards in your hand (or 20 if you have Tables of the Law active) at any time. It's to help limit speed.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 09, 2011, 02:23:45 PM
It was also in effect after CA nats, but they weren't sure they'd keep it.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Minister Polarius on May 09, 2011, 07:50:40 PM
I've never heard the bit about Tables...
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Gabe on May 09, 2011, 07:57:11 PM
Nor have I.  This is an exact quote from Rob's announcement about the rule change and it make no mention of an exception, in fact it "takes precedence over any instruction on a card".

Quote from: CactusRob
There is a new Hand Limit.  The limit is that at no time may the cards in your hand exceed 16.  This rule will take precendence over any instruction on a card.  If you play a card that instructs you to draw cards you must stop at 16.  During Discard Phase you must still reduce your hand to 8 or less.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: browarod on May 10, 2011, 01:32:13 AM
I was told that the maximum hand size rule is: "Your maximum hand size is 2x your end of turn hand size."
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Alex_Olijar on May 10, 2011, 01:45:55 AM
That's just a lazy abbreviation of the rule I guess.
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: browarod on May 10, 2011, 01:56:47 AM
I really don't see how it's "lazy", but w/e....
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: Minister Polarius on May 10, 2011, 01:58:16 AM
It's lazy because it's incorrect, but only in very rare instances would it matter. Of course, I don't see how "double your ending hand size" is faster or simpler than "16 cards."
Title: Re: Anti-First Turn Mayhem
Post by: browarod on May 10, 2011, 02:08:49 AM
I don't either, hence why I don't get why it's lazy, lol.
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