Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => New Card Ideas => Topic started by: jbeers285 on June 11, 2013, 04:28:18 AM
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Foreign Wives
(Everything the same)
New SA
Search discard for HHI. If opponent drew 5 or more cards this turn restrict opponent from playing cards from hand during battle. Protect opponents territory.
CBN
Still a great character but not an auto block
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OP.
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It's less OP (should have been the title)
Edited
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It may not be an auto-block anymore, but it's still more OP than the current version.
Right now it may be an autoblock, but at least you can try to negate any enhancements played on it. This thing essentially makes all evil enhancements CBN.
How about this:
Search discard for HHI. If opponent drew 4 or more cards this turn protect this card from opponent's abilities. Cannot be negated.
It's still VERY powerful, but no longer guaranteed. To make up for this, I reduced the draw requirement to 4 so that any draw ability will trigger it.
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Who cares if the evil enhancements on her are CBN. She is protecting opponents territory keeping her from doing anything serious.
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Who cares if the evil enhancements on her are CBN. She is protecting opponents territory keeping her from doing anything serious.
And keeping the opponent from playing anything? That's OP. Stopping players from even having a battle phase is not a good idea, and it is indeed OP.
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This version is better for the game then an auto block period.
Yes both are OP but this one is less damaging to the game.
It adds a cost to getting the block.
FBTN and FBTNB could still have some level of success against her.
@redoubter it's not much of a battle phase to pass and give up an auto block either.
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Autoblocks aren't bad for the game compared to auto rescues.
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Autoblocks aren't bad for the game compared to auto rescues.
An auto block that every competitive deck plays is not good for the game at all
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FBTN and FBTNB could still have some level of success against her.
Not very much, honestly, when she can still play enhancements (and has access to any number of CBN/CBP cards).
@redoubter it's not much of a battle phase to pass and give up an auto block either.
Being able to make something of the battle is actually something still. I can blow up your protect fortress that is stopping my out-of-battle means of killing her, for example. Also, I can still have a battle phase with the current card. Taking away the battle phase completely from one player, especially when it is only one player, is not good for the game.
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I know how to fix Foreign Wives. Don't draw.
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I know how to fix Foreign Wives. Don't draw.
That means whoever gets wives out of their deck early wins the game. It gives one person speed. Wives doesn't help the game it only hurts it
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The problem with wives isn't so much her ability on its own, its her ability combined with specific cards. Her + mayhem is absolutely infuriating (and I see it happen all the time on rts play), and the ability to Fortify Site with her makes her basically an entirely unkillable permanent stop to all opponent drawing. The one player still gets to draw to their heart's content, and the other is stuck never being able to draw.
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The bottem line is FW is way Op'd and will be played in every comoetitve deck. If you add an extra cost to her getting blocks that isn't a bad thing. This version requires more cards to get the block.
I can't believe this many people are actually supporting this card.
FW is the kind of card that breaks the game based on power creep.
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Why don't you kill the stupid witch in territory. FW is not a permanant roadblock.
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Why don't you kill the stupid witch in territory. FW is not a permanant roadblock.
Fortify Site.
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Why don't you kill the stupid witch in territory. FW is not a permanant roadblock.
You can protect her under Pharaoh's Throne Room or in Tower of Thebez.
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Why don't you kill the stupid witch in territory. FW is not a permanant roadblock.
You can protect her under Pharaoh's Throne Room or in Tower of Thebez.
Tower isn't the best protection for her (since she pops back to territory for them to kill her during the remainder of their turn). Throne room's pretty good. Both of those can be taken out though. With Fortify Site, not a single card in the game can touch her (I thought that stone did, but the character has to be in battle).
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An auto block that every competitive deck plays is not good for the game at all
I imagine the reason they made FW so strong and SO splashable is to provide a legitimate threat to speed decks. If everyone puts FW in their deck, one of the most effective ways around it will be to stop using so much drawing.
Here's hoping this actually happens.
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Lambo nailed it. There are also some pretty effective speed counters in the promos that didn't see print. I hope that Rob finds a way to print those soon! :)
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Lambo nailed it. There are also some pretty effective speed counters in the promos that didn't see print. I hope that Rob finds a way to print those soon! :)
Having a card so strong that everyone starts deck building with SoG NJ FW lets me know we have made a huge mistake
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Lambo nailed it. There are also some pretty effective speed counters in the promos that didn't see print. I hope that Rob finds a way to print those soon! :)
Having a card so strong that everyone starts deck building with SoG NJ FW lets me know we have made a huge mistake
Since when did everyone play NJ (or SoG) in every deck? I, for one, do not always play them and have won regional and below tournaments without one or both and placed at nationals more than once.
Kirk
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Having a card so strong that everyone starts deck building with SoG NJ FW lets me know we have made a huge mistake
This is only a mistake if we didn't want to fundamentally change the game. If we wanted to create a card that would make people think twice about drawing even if they don't see that card, then we succeeded. If we wanted to create a card that even a speed deck would play (and therefore remove at least 1 more card slot to be dedicated to offense and drawing), then we succeeded.
Personally I love FW, and I think it is GREAT for the game :)
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Golden Cherubim and FW are terrific cards and can never be OP because they react to something your opponent does. If your opponent never meets the condition (draw a card or two) then the cards don't do much.
Cards like TGT, on the other hand, are fair to classify as OP because they are proactive.
Nothing OP with FW.
Kirk
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Honestly at this point the cards in the game have reached a power level so high that something has to be insanely good to classify as OP as well as extremely hard to play around.
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Golden Cherubim and FW are terrific cards and can never be OP because they react to something your opponent does. If your opponent never meets the condition (draw a card or two) then the cards don't do much.
Cards like TGT, on the other hand, are fair to classify as OP because they are proactive.
Nothing OP with FW.
Kirk
FW wouldn't be OP if you couldn't A) Use mayhem to force an opponent's draw or B) make her untouchable in territory, letting you draw as much as you want, while your opponent can't draw.
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Golden Cherubim and FW are terrific cards and can never be OP because they react to something your opponent does. If your opponent never meets the condition (draw a card or two) then the cards don't do much.
Cards like TGT, on the other hand, are fair to classify as OP because they are proactive.
Nothing OP with FW.
Kirk
FW wouldn't be OP if you couldn't A) Use mayhem to force an opponent's draw or B) make her untouchable in territory, letting you draw as much as you want, while your opponent can't draw.
No offense To Kirk, he is a t2 genious but in type 1 every deck will play FW and in any game if u start getting cards that everyone has to play to compete u eliminate deck build strategies and begin establishing a permenant meta.
On a side note about NJ and SoG Kirk you are an exception to the rule 99% is close enough to everyone to qualify my statement as correct.
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Golden Cherubim and FW are terrific cards and can never be OP because they react to something your opponent does. If your opponent never meets the condition (draw a card or two) then the cards don't do much.
Cards like TGT, on the other hand, are fair to classify as OP because they are proactive.
Nothing OP with FW.
Kirk
FW wouldn't be OP if you couldn't A) Use mayhem to force an opponent's draw or B) make her untouchable in territory, letting you draw as much as you want, while your opponent can't draw.
Mayhem is really the only issue I see with FW. Her being untouchable means nothing if you simply don't draw (or limit it to 1 card at a time).
if u start getting cards that everyone has to play to compete u eliminate deck build strategies and begin establishing a permenant meta.
FW is only going to be "required" for as long as people continue to abuse speed. If people stop abusing speed, then FW becomes less useful, and will be used less.
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Golden Cherubim and FW are terrific cards and can never be OP because they react to something your opponent does. If your opponent never meets the condition (draw a card or two) then the cards don't do much.
Cards like TGT, on the other hand, are fair to classify as OP because they are proactive.
Nothing OP with FW.
Kirk
FW wouldn't be OP if you couldn't A) Use mayhem to force an opponent's draw or B) make her untouchable in territory, letting you draw as much as you want, while your opponent can't draw.
Mayhem is really the only issue I see with FW. Her being untouchable means nothing if you simply don't draw (or limit it to 1 card at a time).
The problem isn't that it stops drawing, the problem is it stops one player's drawing, while the other can keep drawing all they want.
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What if the other player uses FW as well? If every player starts using FW, people will be forced to think twice about using so much drawing.
Drawing will decrease.
FW will become less powerful.
FW will no longer be used in every deck once drawing decreases suitably.
Then the two balance out.
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Wasn't that what was supposed to happen with RBD? RBD is in every deck, drawing decreases, RBD use decreases, it balances out.
Doesn't really seem like that happened, lol.
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We're talking about FW becoming a staple in such a way as to imply that Redemption currently has a widely varied meta that will somehow become limited by the very appearance of this card. The truth is, Redemption (at least T1) already has a very limited meta selection at the top levels. If that meta is replaced with another tiny meta, all that happens is a shift in which few deck builds you can use for top competition. Until a broad meta with a wide variety of competitive decks at top levels is established, I don't think which limited meta is the current favorite matters all that much. It just means players have to buy a few new cards to match the meta. So if we go from Speed Variations to FW Variations, it's still going to settle on what, about a half-dozen deck build templates?
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Wasn't that what was supposed to happen with RBD? RBD is in every deck, drawing decreases, RBD use decreases, it balances out.
Doesn't really seem like that happened, lol.
100% correct
Lamborghini if I draw FW before you then u dont have speed and I do.
You want to change the game fundamentally create a decent game rule not an OP card everyone will play.
@ddicerc the meta is only limited to certain selection and FW shrinks the selection by making other defensive cards currently in play less useful compared to her. FW will go in every deck no other meta card exists like that out side of lost souls
(by game rule) and SoG NJ
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I sincerely doubt FW will see less play if it creates a meta where people draw less. It is still a multi-color EC with access to a toolbox of defensive options, including being HHI on a stick.
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Foreign Wives is fairly different from Rain Becomes Dust. Rain Becomes Dust stops draws altogether, Foreign Wives just makes there a cost to drawing lots of cards. Say my opponent gets Foreign Wives (and I can't get rid of it in territory for whatever reason), I know I have my own Foreign Wives in my deck (or maybe I don't, it doesn't really matter) Now on any of my turns I can draw 1 extra card before Foreign Wives is even a problem (and on my opponent's turn I can draw as much as I want). Now my opponent can force me to draw once with Mayhem. Now if I decide I don't need to draw cards before my opponent blocks they have to decide whether or not it is worth risking their FW on the chance that I'm going to play a draw enhancement or they will block with a different character (or possibly none at all) meaning that in that case Foreign Wives isn't terribly useful (it may have slowed me down, but I still very easily could get the rescue), on the other hand, if I decide I need to draw (possibly to get my own Foreign Wives out) I draw, take the lost rescue and move on with my game.
Of course I'm a T2 player, so I really don't know how T1 plays at high levels, so maybe it is Over Powered in T1. I'm just saying that it sounds like it will make games more interesting, because there could be a cost to drawing too many cards before the block happens.
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People could just shift off a fast offense and go to a fast defense and bam FW is no longer a problem. This might get people to actually play a decent sized defense in T1; have no idea how this affects T2 though.
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Wasn't that what was supposed to happen with RBD? RBD is in every deck, drawing decreases, RBD use decreases, it balances out.
Doesn't really seem like that happened, lol.
RBD is very easy to counter (DoN, Captured Ark, Passover Hymn, Abe's descendant), and takes up the active art slot. A fortified FW is impossible to counter, and doesn't limit your artifacts.
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People could just shift off a fast offense and go to a fast defense and bam FW is no longer a problem. This might get people to actually play a decent sized defense in T1
Woot :)
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People could just shift off a fast offense and go to a fast defense and bam FW is no longer a problem. This might get people to actually play a decent sized defense in T1
Woot :)
There's no reason to do that. You can pretty easily run both a fast defense and a fast offense.
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People could just shift off a fast offense and go to a fast defense and bam FW is no longer a problem. This might get people to actually play a decent sized defense in T1; have no idea how this affects T2 though.
Let's be honest this won't happen all that happens is people throw in FW to replace 3 of the 12 defensive cards they play to add 2 more speed/offensive cards
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Hmm. Well, here is a card idea from my Proverbs theme I created in early 2012. It was designed to counter speed, including the player using it. The wording is outdated now since I didn't use "underdeck". To further counter AUTO, it could also protect cards in territory from exchange, I guess. And I originally had it at 3 turns instead of 2.
Folly
2/8 unique female Pale Green evil character, not human/not demon
Proverbs 9:13
(X = number of cards opponent has drawn from good abilities in current battle phase)
"Regardless of protection, opponent must place X cards from hand beneath deck. Protect all decks and hands from draw, shuffle, search, and exchange abilities for 2 turns. Cannot be negated."
Let's be honest, FW is replacing Uzzah/KoT, not Pentecost/FF, in speed decks. Speed decks are not playing more defense because of FW. There's no evidence (yet) that balanced decks with FW can beat speed decks. Until there is, there will be a lot of speed decks (ironically all of which will have FW in them).
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I was under the impression Fortify Site only protected the Canaanite in territory until it entered battle the first time. Then after returning to territory it was not safe.
Does Fortify grant protection even upon return to territory?
And isn't TGT the easiest speed way around FW? Your opponent needs Self or Foreign Spearman down to avoid FW being ignored and they are only protected in KotW, which can be nuked, and then Self/Spearman is easy Grail, MtM, AotL, etc fodder.
Kirk
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I was under the impression Fortify Site only protected the Canaanite in territory until it entered battle the first time. Then after returning to territory it was not safe.
You are correct.
Search discard pile for a black Canaanite or a Canaanite Site and put it in play to discard an Artifact. Protect it from opponents while it remains in territory.
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I thought Fortify Site's effect remained until said character left play somehow.
Fortify Site is a really strange card in general, it's an ongoing effect that lasts while the card itself is in the discard pile.
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Key word there is remains. That's good to know, Fortify Site is significantly worse than I thought.
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I agree on Fortify Site. The "while remains in play" characters reset if they are set-aside, so I would imagine this would be the same way.
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I was under the impression Fortify Site only protected the Canaanite in territory until it entered battle the first time. Then after returning to territory it was not safe.
You are correct.
Search discard pile for a black Canaanite or a Canaanite Site and put it in play to discard an Artifact. Protect it from opponents while it remains in territory.
I agree on Fortify Site. The "while remains in play" characters reset if they are set-aside, so I would imagine this would be the same way.
Just to ensure that I understand this correctly, The current two elder ruling is that the protection from fortify site only remains until the character leaves my opponent's territory for any reason, then they are targetable again. Is that correct?
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Yes.
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Yes.
Happy day! :)
Should there be a link made in Ruling questions to this? I am sure that this will come up at least once during the later parts of this tournament season
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Should there be a link made in Ruling questions to this? I am sure that this will come up at least once during the later parts of this tournament season
I can create a new wiki page for rule updates, complete with links to elder posts as proof.
I'll make a new post about this once the page is created.
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Should there be a link made in Ruling questions to this? I am sure that this will come up at least once during the later parts of this tournament season
I can create a new wiki page for rule updates, complete with links to elder posts as proof.
I'll make a new post about this once the page is created.
Good idea. Thanks Lambo.
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Should there be a link made in Ruling questions to this? I am sure that this will come up at least once during the later parts of this tournament season
I can create a new wiki page for rule updates, complete with links to elder posts as proof.
I'll make a new post about this once the page is created.
That's a cool idea. I will also make a new topic post in the Ruling Forum about it, for easy access on the forum, since I agree that it is likely to come up a time or two in the next few months.
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Done (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/new-wiki-page-rule-updates/)