Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I'm gonna have up to 3. I have seen a lot of people relying on side battles... I think it's a good card.

No, this deck doens't cause you to lose. It caused you to have no hand. If your heroes can win with no hand (fbtn, banding) then you still have a pretty good chance cause he doesn't have very many battle winners.

I think you guys are missing how this deck works. It's called "Speed" Camp for a reason. If you can get Pot of Manna, Zebulun, or your Gathered characters within the first two or three turns, then your arguments are valid. But usually this gets set up VERY early and there's not a whole lot you can do to stop it. The occasional Angel of the Lord, Christian Martyr, or Unholy Writ help, but otherwise you sit there with no hand and you can't do anything because you have no hand, can't draw any more cards, and usually don't have the characters you need in order to win. But ya, like I said, Clift made several mistakes in the two games he played me and it ended up biting him in the butt. Because this is an all or nothing deck. Either you get the combo off or you lose. There's not really any other options. This is not a deck that can win without the combo, just as the first poster stated.

Eric "can't win them all" Largent

Believe me, i understand your logic Justin-

the problem with dominants in this deck is that they take up very valuble card slots in your hand dedicated to the lock down of your opponent
as long as the deck stays at 100 cards and you keep the combo peices and draw cards-
any type of tech can be added to the decklist according to preferance.

 i do not doubt that christian martyr would only benefit the deck but you probably couldnt commit to holding it too long in your hand.
same for son of god just for a quick block.

i used to have king sword in the decklist just for red dragon but took it out for joiada+z-temp
jephthah, another ends of the earth, and one aoc was also included as well as philosophy but this is the current build.

one of my favorite plays with the deck is when im having to rely on what i call a soft lock aka 2 sincamp in territory and i activate i am holy and then place hand discarder in ends of the earth...

the mvp of the deck...words of discouragement
i like having aoc in the deck because it is an instant gabriel grab-the funny thing is after using Mr. Hiatus as a guinea pig for the deck over the years he finally figured out if you take out WoD you beat the deck.

archers are for opponents heros- belive me ive killed plenty of gathered guys
oh yea and besieged in battle is fun for j tower

i really look foward to playtesting grapes of wrath in the deck and will prob add another assyrian archer when i get one even though i think 4 is best

Or I sit back and laugh as I draw 10 sites in the first 4 turns...

...and i laugh as you dont get to play with the cards that you spent probably hours on deciding to put in your deck

the mvp of the deck...words of discouragement
i like having aoc in the deck because it is an instant gabriel grab-the funny thing is after using Mr. Hiatus as a guinea pig for the deck over the years he finally figured out if you take out WoD you beat the deck.

The funny thing is, Tyler did that same discard against my combo deck at Nationals two years ago the first time he played it.  Notice a trend?  

I do find it interesting that you only use two copies of Cup of Wrath.  That would be the easiest card for someone to knock out with two Gabriel discards to keep you from pulling off the side battle, compared to knocking out 3 WoD.  I include 3 copies of Cup so they can't keep me from winning by two early Gabriel attacks.

Kirk

Ladies and gentlemen, this deck is for real.  Mad props to Clift for sharing it with the Redemption community. His advice over the phone this morning was also very valuable. 

I was able to regularly go off by the 5th turn (or sooner) and completely devestate 5 of my 6 opponents.  Of course Mr. Hiatus showed why he is one of the elite in T2 by giving me a sound beating.  Thank God for the grace to keep us humble.

The deck is a lot of fun to play with, but probably not a lot of fun to play against.  My opponents were all very good sports though.

Gabe used this deck? A combo deck won Nationals? Wow, this is huge news.

lol because it's the first time a skilled player played a really good combo deck. Congrats GABE!!!! Big props homie!

Not true...Kirk used a combo deck in 2007 and finished third after having one game with an awful draw. I used a combo deck back in 2005 (the original version of the deck Kirk used) but got very unlucky in the opening two rounds and lost those games. Ron Sias has been using combo decks in T2 for many years now (including the one that brought about the side battle ruling change). Props to Clift for refining this deck and Gabe for successfully piloting it, but it's not the first "good" combo deck.

but they didn't win. And that in itself speaks loads. You can tell me all day so and so is great, but they didn't win it all did they. They were runners up or didn't even place.

That doesn't make Kirk a bad player or Justin a bad player. Just because they didn't win with X deck at X tournament does not mean that they are not good.

Winning it all at Nats isn't the only definition of greatness.  I think that almost everyone would agree that Kirk and Justin are great T2 players.

Though I do fit under that first definition also 

I also agree that winning alone does not make a player "great."