Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Deck Building & Design => National Tournament Winners => Topic started by: TimMierz on August 10, 2008, 02:35:33 PM
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Builder: Tim Mierzejewski
Place Used: 2008 National Tournament
Performance: First Place(9-1)
Cards: 56
Type: Level 1 - 2 Player
Throwing It All Away
Rome-o and Genesis-iet
Discard, Datcard
Genesis & Rome
56 Cards
Heroes (8)
Angel at Shur (Promo)
Benjamin
Dan
Jacob (FooF)
Rebekah
Sarah
Simeon (FooF)
Zebulun
Good Enhancements (8)
Abraham's Servant to Ur
Answer to Prayer
Buying Grain
Jacob's Dream
Journey to Egypt
Obedience of Noah (D deck)
Reuben's Torn Clothes
Shoes of Peace (F deck)
Evil Characters (9)
Ahithophel (Kings)
Emperor Augustus
Emperor Claudius
Emperor Galba
Emperor Nero
King Menahem
Lying Spirit
Naaman
Sabbath Breaker
Evil Enhancements (7)
Balaam's Disobedience
Chains
Expelling the Jews
Heavy Taxes
Lurking
Mask of Fear
Namaan's Chariot and Horses
Artifacts, Covenants, and Curses (6)
Chariot of Fire
Confusion of Mind
Covenant of Noah
Priestly Crown
Rain Becomes Dust
Unknown Nation
Fortresses (2)
Rome
Wall of Protection
Lost Soul Sites (2)
Hormah
Promised Land
Lost Souls (7)
Site-Discard
Discarder
Revealer
Shuffler
Wanderer
Female-Only
Lost Souls (3 lines)
Dominants (7)
Son of God
New Jerusalem
Angel of the Lord
Burial
Christian Martyr
Destruction of Nehushtan
Falling Away
This deck went 9-1 in Type I 2-player at the 2008 National Tournament. (Chad Soderstrom beat me 5-3 in round 7 or 8.) The record exceeded my wildest dreams and expectations, but it kept performing. Through repeated use of cards like Simeon, Dan, Emperor Galba, King Menahem, and the discarding Lost Souls, the opponent's hand would be running fairly low the whole time, hopefully making him get rid of helpful cards to stop him from successfully blocking and rescuing. As you can see from the list, that's not the entirety of the deck - there are some great battle winners and characters in there for other purposes. But I won games both by being able to do things like Benjamin/Obedience at the right times, and by wearing down the defense through Simeon/Chariot, so it's not completely single-minded. Using mainly a single color on both offense and defense gave me many options, keeping the deck versatile. Some cards, like Answer to Prayer and Lurking, have a great many applications and situations in which they can potentially win me a battle. Other incredibly helpful cards were Confusion of Mind, Balaam's Disobedience, and Heavy Taxes. I never rescued 6 souls in a single game.
If I were to make some non-RoA changes, I would swap out Mask of Fear for Harvest Time or Guardian of Your Souls. I rarely got the opportunity and desire to play Mask of Fear during the tournament, even though it had helped me many times in the last several months. I did often find myself hurting for souls to rescue, and in all but two games of the ten my souls were the target of Falling Away. But I've got bigger fish to fry after getting a complete set of awesome new cards. :)
If you have any questions like, "Why is card X in your deck?" or "Seriously, a winning deck with Sarah, Rebekah, and Ahithophel?" or "How the heck did you win?", I would be more than happy to answer them. I am also thrilled that something other than a splash deck won.
I found this interesting: here's the set breakdown, using the earliest release for equivalent cards:
Original: 7
Prophets: 0
Women: 3
Warriors: 4
C/D: 1
Patriarchs: 7
Apostles: 3
Kings: 2
E/F: 3
Angel Wars: 2
G/H: 1
Priests: 5
Faith of Our Fathers: 16
Promo: 2
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Congratulations Tim and thanks for posting the winning deck list.
For what its worth, Ahithopel goes in all of the gray defenses I ever use.
Sean
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No surprise there, FooF made this possible. Though, I am slightly surprised Patriarchs had more usage then Apostles at first, but then I think about gray enhancements and it makes more sense.
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With the non-RoA changes, if you took out Mask of Fear would you still keep in Rome?
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I don't want to answer for Tim, but I can tell you he would. When he and BrianGabe were working together to toss around ideas about the deck, Gabe suggested he take Rome at. After one battle between Moses/Covenant with Moses, and an Emperor, Gabe sided with Tim. In a FBTN battle, Rome will get the emperor the win almost every time.
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No surprise there, FooF made this possible. Though, I am slightly surprised Patriarchs had more usage then Apostles at first, but then I think about gray enhancements and it makes more sense.
Patriarchs: Journey to Egypt, Jacob's Dream, Abraham's Servant to Ur, Balaam's Disobedience, Promised Land, Destruction of Nehushtan, Covenant of Noah
Apostles: Emperor Nero, Emperor Claudius, Wall of Protection
It was mainly blue, not gray, cards that bumped up Patriarchs' count.
With the non-RoA changes, if you took out Mask of Fear would you still keep in Rome?
Totally. Besides letting Nero, Augustus, and Galba use Mask of Fear, I could:
- Retrieve it with Galba. Besides making my deck 1 card faster in drawing terms, I could retrieve it from DISCARD too. Whenever I had to discard an evil card from territory (like with my Discarder soul), Rome was the first to go. With Galba around, I could repeat at will.
- Have first strike. Any of my emperors could beat any BTN Hero one-on-one. With two emperors in battle (Unknown Nation) I beat a White Hero/Transfig/Moses/Cov with Moses attack without a single enhancement. First Strike has won me countless battles, much to my surprise.
- Let Emperor Claudius play Heavy Taxes. It didn't happen in the tournament, but any chance to play Heavy Taxes is happiness for me.
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Hmm. Interesting.
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Also how why did you have Rain Becomes Dust in your deck? To combat speed?
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How useful was Naaman to your cause?
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Rain Becomes Dust was mainly in there to combat speed, yes. I fought around 3 speed decks I think in my 10 games. In one of those, I drew RbD after he completely decked. In another, I drew it from Sabbath Breaker's special ability and played it in battle for the 5 defense, winning me the block. In the final one, it was very effective, stopping his Words and Reach (and getting rid of 6 cards from his deck).
Namaan was somewhat useful. The CBN is definitely sweet, but only Chains and Chariot are really affected by that in my deck. More than once I used him as Obedience fodder when I didn't have anyone smaller. It's always nice when Chains wins a numbers battle though. Namaan was one card Gabe suggested I add to make King David less of a threat, and I'm glad I did. Incidentally, I only saw 1 King David played by my opponents, and I was able to block him successfully (and then Angel of the Lord and Christian Martyr fell onto the table anyways).
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Hmmm. Since FoOF I wanted to make a Roman Defense. Just didn't ever get around to actually trying it. Now I might try a Genesis/Rome... but I think it would be better if I tried my own ideas...
Nice job on winning Nats with such a different type of deck. I don't think anyone has tried a hand discard deck like this before. Congrats.
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I just wanted to say again that I'm really glad you won. I think it's great that somebody won nationals with such a cool and unique deck. Most people wouldn't even consider hand destruction a viable strategy, but now that should change ;) Congratulations.
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I am also glad that a hand-control based deck won nationals. This is a strategy that has been hurting for a long time and is finally viable. Congratulations!
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Tim, you took an underestimated archetype to Nationals and proved to everyone that it is not only vialbe, but National Championship worthy. Once again, a huge congratulations to you.
Godspeed,
Mike
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Tim, other than winning myself, nothing could have made me happier than seeing you win it all with a single color deck (99% anyway). Big props. It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. :D
Although I will ask, why is Lying Spirit in your deck? I couldn't figure that one out. Random banding, perhaps?
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Although I will ask, why is Lying Spirit in your deck? I couldn't figure that one out. Random banding, perhaps?
I don't have any other banding in there (save for Unknown Nation), so it's a useful thing to have around. A little more numbers against a Captain band, some insurance against Angel of the Lord, and somewhat low numbers if I want them against someone and have them stick in. It will probably head out in favor of The Terrifying Beast, but we'll see. As it is though, it can mess with the opponent by banding in their ECs too.
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I would recommend that you post this on Holders Heroes because Schaef really would like some tournament-winning decks on there.
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Patriarchs: Journey to Egypt
I hate jooo ;)
Rain Becomes Dust was mainly in there to combat speed, yes.yways).
I hate you moooreeee... My poor swift horses! What kinda noob uses hand d/c!
;)
Naw just kidding I am glad you won with such an odd deck. Too bad I didn't beat ya like regionals so I could post heroless won nationals ;). Congrats on making such an annoying deck!
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He can get ours from tim maly =)
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Well I decided to build a Genesis/Rome deck and looking at yours I was wondering, "Why no Captured Ark?"
My deck will be different from yours (just so I can call it mine) but was there a reason you didn't include Captured Ark in your deck?
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There are very few artifacts that greatly hurt my deck that I've seen in common use. Destruction has always been enough for me; never needed to use Captured Ark. Usually my artifact slot was better filled with Confusion of Mind, Covenant of Noah, or Chariot of Fire.
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Thank you for sharing your deck with the public. I'll echo Ben's request that you submit this to Holder's Heroes. I have a lot of respect for people like you that do well and then generously give to others to make this game better. :thumbup:
I will definitely be posting to Holder's Heroes. Monday and today are gaming days though, and yesterday was laundry day plus online-game-show-with-my-friends day.
Thank you again for the kind words, but don't downplay your own modifications, suggestions, and support. It's a biiiit more than the 1% you admitted to at Nationals. :)
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Awesome job Tim!! Innovative and cool deck!!
SC redemption players rock!!! :P
Somewhere larry the zombie is smiling.....
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Congrats man, great performance.
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congrats Tim
Our game was fun and ur deck is one of a kind. thats the first time i saw a deck like that. i loved it. congrats again.
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Hand discard is OP-ed. Heavy Taxes and Buying Grain need to be banned. Now.
::)
Nice work, Tim. :)
If I was to make one non-RoA change, I would say that you should find a way to fit in False Peace.
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False Peace was in the deck originally, but I took it out because initiative was so hard to come by in most circumstances; when I did have it by NH&C I wanted to just end the battle there. I rarely had trouble drawing the right cards, as the deck is fairly fast as it is, and there is good versatility with what characters and enhancements I can use. It is also useless if I draw it late. Nothing in the deck seems like a worse choice than False Peace.
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any reason whatsoever you mained shoes of peace over dove? i mean, they practically have the same abilities, the exact same special ability, and dove is genesis for searching and jacob abuse.
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Not for sure, but I believe that Shoes of Peace is the one card that can be played on Angel at Shur.
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Ben is absolutely right. Namaan sometimes gets converted too, and he can play Shoes of Peace as well.
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right, but i can see those as very rare situations that would not win rescue attempts. dove seems to me to be the far better choice, because its a blue genesis cad.
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some situations regarding shoes of peace:
Ra angel at shur they think itz just splash "as I would" they block with Sapphira Tim plays shoes of peace
Ra angel at shur block jobs wife plays lying unto God Tim plays shoes of peace
Ra angel at shur blocks job's wife plays ballam's disobedience time plays shoes of peace
theres plenty more:
red dragon/ lying unto God
Foul spirit/lying unto God
benefits of Shoes of peace>benefits of dove imo
(EDIT)
" Since my loss to this deck i have made this offence and i made a few changes one of them being the addition of Gaberiel, i know he is not Genesis but imo he is just begging to be in this deck"
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Ben's got the right idea. Usually if I can play something Blue, I've got something better I can do. Shoes of Peace allows for playing on any character, even in a sneak attack with Angel at Shur.
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Tim,
If I could suggest one non RoA change, where is the Buckler dominant?
Kirk
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How about this? ;) (change the < to [, but this is what the HTML looks like: <img>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/timmierz/BucklerPromo.jpg</img>)
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv242%2Ftimmierz%2FBucklerPromo.jpg&hash=2a2f0a72e0e1ffd586bad9dae283ae9721efd0a8)
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Now all you have to do is splash in Adam...
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No, it already works great when Naaman is defeated and converts himself!
Kirk
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Now all you have to do is splash in Adam...
And Eve, and put in Gold Shield, and Scarlet Line.
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How about this? ;) (change the < to [, but this is what the HTML looks like: <img>http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/timmierz/BucklerPromo.jpg</img>)
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv242%2Ftimmierz%2FBucklerPromo.jpg&hash=2a2f0a72e0e1ffd586bad9dae283ae9721efd0a8)
wow, completely worthless......... just an added aggravator....
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WORTHLESS? are you crazy?
Mhh..... aint got no respect for the bucker.... so sad.....
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Nice deck Tim. It doesn't look like it could win a National tournament on paper but it;s one of those awsome decks. Nice to See solid color's winning a National Tournament too.
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My buckler slap deck says buckler rules.
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Do not mock the buckler of death. >:(
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y didnt u use gabe? he seems to be begging to be in hear.
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He makes Zebulun harder to use, has few enhancements to play on him, and doesn't fit with the themes of hand-discarding and Genesis.
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Alright, so, what is the secret I'm missing with Ahithophel?
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He's a little guy for inish and he's not royalty for Kind David.
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Is that all? What's the difference between Ahithophel and a Pharisee, then?
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Also, Why didn't you use Dove instead of Shoes of Peace.
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The Dove/Shoes of Peace thing is explained earlier in the thread; it was more worthwhile to have a multicolor enhancement than another Genesis enhancement.
Ahithophel is unique, in case I want to use Namaan's Chariot and Horses on him in a bad time. Ahithophel was also a common target for my Obedience, and the less defense there, the better. He has the lowest defense of any non-royal gray EC (tied with Sabbath Breaker). It's also rarer to see Absalom and friends than to see Pharisees, so I didn't have to worry about choosing him as a blocker and seeing a Saul come join the frenzy or something.
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Nice job Tim.
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Ah, I see now. Another question: Did you ever consider putting in Dart (Kings)? That may have been helpful. Also, how often did you use Augustus? He seems like he wouldn't be very helpful, especially if your opponent only uses OT and/or angels.
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Augustus not helpful, but dart is? that'd be the day.
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Seriously, how often did you use Augustus' SA, and how much did it help you?
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Seriously, how often did you use Augustus' SA, and how much did it help you?
It is mostly beneficial as another card to make opponent discard from hand. On its own this may not be useful, but as part of the barrage of hand discard that the deck has it is potentially lethal.
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Ben's got it right. It's a potential discard. The discard didn't happen all the time, but it was a nice option to have. Remember that evil humans count too, so someone like Nero or Claudius in their territory could cause it. The extra defense on Augustus compared to most other emperors was also nice when I didn't have Rome or couldn't get enough offense.
Sword was in some older versions of the deck, but it never caused a discard for me.
Dart... not quite useful enough to be one of the 56 cards. Never really considered it.
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Actually, I've used it a few times....It's helped me a fair amount, but I guess you have enough to hold off as much as you need.
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If you use Dart on a Hero, can you use the special ability?
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When you used obedience, did you play any enhancements or not? ???
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If he chose, say Ahithophel, then he probably wouldn't.
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finally some one to make people appreciate blue/gray decks THANK U
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So...yeah...this deck (albeit updated/upgraded) can still get it done. 8)
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Is this what Josiah used to win Type 1 2 player? There is no doubt Tiberius, Sorrow of Mary, and Vain Philosophy added tremendous power towards the deck.
I'm curious to know what his top cut matchups were and if he faced any Disciples decks there. Disciples generally have a favorable matchup against Genesis/Romans...Simon the Zealot, 4 Drachma Coin, James the Lesser/John/Thad, and sometimes King David.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't pure Genesis/Rome. Blue/Gray hand control would be more accurate, though obviously Genesis/Rome is the foundation.
I'm curious to know what his top cut matchups were and if he faced any Disciples decks there. Disciples generally have a favorable matchup against Genesis/Romans...Simon the Zealot, 4 Drachma Coin, James the Lesser/John/Thad, and sometimes King David.
I think Justin S. was the only one using Disciples of those who made Top Cut, but I'm not positive.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wasn't pure Genesis/Rome. Blue/Gray hand control would be more accurate, though obviously Genesis/Rome is the foundation.
I'm curious to know what his top cut matchups were and if he faced any Disciples decks there. Disciples generally have a favorable matchup against Genesis/Romans...Simon the Zealot, 4 Drachma Coin, James the Lesser/John/Thad, and sometimes King David.
I think Justin S. was the only one using Disciples of those who made Top Cut, but I'm not positive.
This is pretty accurate. Justin and I did play if I'm remembering correctly in 5-2 in my favor.