Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Redemption® Resources and Thinktank => Game Play Variations => Topic started by: Lamborghini_diablo on September 12, 2009, 04:02:14 PM
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So, I thought of this idea today and I think it could be very fun if done right.
Normal T1 deckbuilding rules apply, except every deck is given 5 dedicated "wild cards." The way these work is that until you draw one and play it, the card remains a "wildcard," and then the instant it enters play, you decide what the card is. Wild cards cannot become:
1) Dominants or Lost Souls.
2) Other cards currently in your deck. (If you have AoCP in your deck, you cannot make the wild AoCP).
3) Once a wildcard enters play, it is permanently the card you specified. This means no other wild card can become this card. So, if you make one wildcard AoCP, you cannot make a second one into AoCP.
Any other REAL card that has been created is fair game. This means if your hand is extremely stuffed, make one into a storehouse. Opponent runs TGT and you are stuck, make one into KotW and another into Self. Wanna take them by surprise? run one brigade, then create a random 1/1 crimson EC and Great Image.
*Edit*
Some other rules, that should be common sense, but I wanted to specify.
1) If the wildcard gets shuffled or discarded after you decide what it is, it does NOT revert back to a wildcard. It plays exactly like the card you decide to play it as would.
2) Adding on to the above, you cant play a wildcard on a blue hero and make it a purple enhancement. You decide the moment before you play it, so they MUST be played according to normal rules.
I can see this type of game becoming extremely dynamic and intense, since neither player knows what those 5 cards will become, but it allows decks to become much more flexable based on an exact moment in a game. No more "If ONLY I had that card..." because now you CAN have that card!
Thoughts?
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i love it
which means i can use the wildcard to play "Just a Hireling"
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Also, Imma add something else in there that I forgot.
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2) Other cards currently in your deck. (If you have AoCP in your deck, you cannot make the wild AoCP).
How would you enforce this?
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Good point but, I hope we can trust eachother on that point. Besides, if you see later that the same card shows up, you know they cheated and therefore they loose.
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so now this is what the blank cards will be used for :D
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Either that or, take some junk 2/2 no SA enhancement, put it in a sleeve, and slip in a sheet of paper. when you play the card, take the paper out and write the name down, and slip it back in.
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i love the idea, as it essentially creates a viable 'sideboard' for redemption. however, i agree, it would probably be very hard to enforce not copying another card in the deck.
im not entirely sure im on board with having 'dedicated' wildcards either. that pretty much makes them broken, as they have no drawback. instead, maybe make it so a player can make any of his dominants in the deck 'wildcards'...that way, they can get anything they want sans-dominant/lost soul, but still have the drawback of losing that dominant. it also would make use of otherwise useless goys'/falling aways stuck in hand (although i found falling away to be perfect food for philly outpost :) ).
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Personally, I like the idea of dedicated wildcards better, since you have 5 cards less to "build" your deck with. Also, it makes them harder to search for, since only like, Search and False Peace could grab them. They arent good, evil, enhs, characters, arts, or forts until they are played. So until that time, they are just "cards."
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but they are far too versatile. you could go 'oh hey, i dont need a dungeon to go with my zedekiah in my deck, because one of my wildcard can be it. or, if i dont need dungeon, it can be anything else'. just a way too broken mechanic with no drawback.
another thing i kind of like is that in addition to making a wildcard virtually any other card you want, you must also OWN the card from outside the game and switch it when you play the wildcard. that way, there can be no discrepencies as to what the card you chose says or anything. kind of reminds me of death wish (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=false&multiverseid=34402) from mtg. :)
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but they are far too versatile. you could go 'oh hey, i dont need a dungeon to go with my zedekiah in my deck, because one of my wildcard can be it. or, if i dont need dungeon, it can be anything else'. just a way too broken mechanic with no drawback.
another thing i kind of like is that in addition to making a wildcard virtually any other card you want, you must also OWN the card from outside the game and switch it when you play the wildcard. that way, there can be no discrepencies as to what the card you chose says or anything. kind of reminds me of death wish (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=false&multiverseid=34402) from mtg. :)
How is it broken? sure, you may have a better chance of "getting" that card if you intend to use one as a Dungeon, but as the same time, who's to say I dont throw down one of mine as I am Redemption or something similar? As I said, I can see this becoming very back and forth, with lots of interesting battles.
Also no, I want the 5 cards to be able to become ANY card, regardless of if you own it.
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lol, I would so use Wildcards as Haman's Plots every time. :D
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LOL.
BTW, I don't see this becoming an official game type, but rather just something fun to try.
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but they are far too versatile. you could go 'oh hey, i dont need a dungeon to go with my zedekiah in my deck, because one of my wildcard can be it. or, if i dont need dungeon, it can be anything else'. just a way too broken mechanic with no drawback.
another thing i kind of like is that in addition to making a wildcard virtually any other card you want, you must also OWN the card from outside the game and switch it when you play the wildcard. that way, there can be no discrepencies as to what the card you chose says or anything. kind of reminds me of death wish (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=false&multiverseid=34402) from mtg. :)
How is it broken? sure, you may have a better chance of "getting" that card if you intend to use one as a Dungeon, but as the same time, who's to say I dont throw down one of mine as I am Redemption or something similar? As I said, I can see this becoming very back and forth, with lots of interesting battles.
Also no, I want the 5 cards to be able to become ANY card, regardless of if you own it.
the flexibility, versatility, and no drawback is what makes it broken. make it cost something to somebody, and it suddenly becomes more balanced. my .02.
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The "cost" is that you arent the only player with wildcards. So, if you pull off some broken combo one turn, they can do the same thing right back at you. BOTH players have this power, and so they balance eachother out.
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lulz, thats like saying dominants are 'balanced' because both players play with dominants. couldnt be further from the truth.
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Except, you can use your wildcard to counter their wildcard. You cant really do that with dominants except with FA/GOYS.
Also, the cards can be defensive if you need more umph against your opponent, or offensive if you need that extra push to get through.
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it isnt about countering. its the versatility and power creep a card can potentially contain. dominants do not abide by cost: benefit rules, that is why they are broken. what you suggest is essentially the same thing, except they can be far more powerful than even dominants, as they can be anything at anytime.
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I know.
I guess the difference between our point of views is that I never considered doms to be broken in the first place.
Still, I think we should try a few games before saying "THEMS BE BROKED!"
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i agree, i love the concept behind it, because i think this game direly needs a sideboard (there has just never been a way to implement it with only 1 game played). huge props for finding a practical way to do it. i just didnt agree with how abusive it could potentially become, so i made a few simple suggestions. besides...i would like to see a player rip a goys in place of a hamans plot if it really came down to it. :D
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I'll definately keep the dominants as wildcards idea in mind, but I think it'll work with just dedicated wildcards.
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also, why did you settle on 5 wildcards?
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I felt that was a good number. Not too few to be useless, and not too many to break the game. The highest ratio of wilds to deck you can get is 1:10.
That could be changed if it has to, but I feel 5 is a good number for that.
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So would you have to say which 5 cards are your Wildcards beforehand? Otherwise, what if you're using enhancements as your wildcards and your opponent attacks with Gabe? Also, if one of your Wildcards is Confusion'd/discarded from the top of the deck, can you decide that it is a recurrable type of card (say a hero that you can get back with Chariot) while it's in the discard pile?
I think it is a great idea, but obviously a lot of things need to be worked out.
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I would treat the wildcards as basicly blank cards, so they could ONLY be targeted by cards that simply target "Cards" until the owner decides what to make it (which only happens when they go into play).
However, I feel if the opponent chooses to go for a wildcard instead of say, SoG, then thats a decision they have to make. Those cards are powerful, and I feel if they are discarded, then they should be harder to recur. Mabye that could be part of the balance that MKC wanted. :)
Extremely powerful, but hard to pull from the deck and hard to recur if they get sniped.
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Love the idea, you and me should try it out sometime
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I'm totally trying this idea. Love it Lambo!
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I like the idea a lot as well.
I don't quite understand how dominant wildcards would be less broken than dedicated wildcards. Since there are 12 dominants (GotL, HT, Doubt, Mayhem, Grapes, GoYS, SoG, AoTL, CM, Burial, DoN, FA, tell me if I missed any), my 50 card deck could be almost 1/4 wildcards. Plus, I could use the dominants as dominants and not wildcards.
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I like the idea a lot as well.
I don't quite understand how dominant wildcards would be less broken than dedicated wildcards. Since there are 12 dominants (GotL, HT, Doubt, Mayhem, Grapes, GoYS, SoG, AoTL, CM, Burial, DoN, FA, tell me if I missed any), my 50 card deck could be almost 1/4 wildcards. Plus, I could use the dominants as dominants and not wildcards.
Ummm....New Jerusalem?
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Love the idea! I'll probably be trying this at some of Bryon's tourneys over the year. But great concept.
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I'm up for testing this out with someone.
Question, if you put a Wildcard facedown in the artifact pile, do you have to decide which artifact it is right away or can you decide later on when you want to activate it? Can it be a Covenant or a Curse if you want?
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I'd say the instant a card leaves your hand and goes anywhere on the table, you must decide what it is, even if it goes face down. If it is facedown, you just announce what it is when you flip it up. Yes I realize you could change your mind and get away with it, but, as soon as that card is revealed, it sticks.
The ONLY case where a wildcard would not be decided when it leaves your hand or deck, is if it is immediately discarded from say, Confusion.