Author Topic: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns  (Read 4254 times)

kariusvega

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I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« on: June 19, 2015, 01:35:03 PM »
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honestly, all i want is the mulligan. drawing nothing but a hand full of enhancements and a few lost souls will lose you the game turn 1.

kariusvega

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2015, 01:39:21 PM »
-1
8 is good we just need a mulligan that's all in my opinion same way we did it in ohio it worked great

Offline jbeers285

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2015, 01:47:49 PM »
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8 is good we just need a mulligan that's all in my opinion same way we did it in ohio it worked great

We have a mulligan thread, this is a d10 thread. :-)

In comparison though
A mulligan is slower, and we can't agree on the rules
D10 is simple and provides the same thing as mulligan just more efficiently
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kariusvega

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2015, 01:51:43 PM »
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8 is good we just need a mulligan that's all in my opinion same way we did it in ohio it worked great

We have a mulligan thread, this is a d10 thread. :-)

In comparison though
A mulligan is slower, and we can't agree on the rules
D10 is simple and provides the same thing as mulligan

honestly man if i draw a hand full of 8 enhancements and lost souls or a hand full of 10 enhancements and lost souls.. i still lose the game haha i watched this happen multiple times in sealed at Tennessee state and people were just sitting there without a block while i walked. kind of felt unfair. especially knowing that the mulligan could have saved their game and given them a way better chance at winning. that was in sealed- with the starter decks. not t1 2p.. so the argument can't really be made that it was a matter of bad deck building. that is a matter of the game draw with no other options after. now imagine drawing 10 enhancements and only 1 hero next turn it may be unlikely but it happened more than a few times at state in sealed category. at that point all you can do is discard and give up souls.

kariusvega

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2015, 02:05:37 PM »
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Let's keep this thread discussing the D10 please. A discussion on mulligans can be started in a new thread.

Thank you   8)

i mean if anything this is why we shouldn't d10 first turn. mulligan is just a simple solution to the same problem regardless of how many cards we draw first turn

Offline jbeers285

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2015, 02:34:59 PM »
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i mean i'm really referring to anyone though there are people who have played redemption only a few times before that enter in a sealed category and can't play the game because they don't have characters turn 1 or turn 2. isn't that why created by Christ was printed? it's obviously not uncommon considering you are admitting it will continue to happen no matter what you do! it just feels unfair.

obviously i don't have that problem in t1 2p because of deck building strats which minimize the probability however sealed was the most played category at tn state. sealed is sealed that is the entry level to teach the game to any beginner playing- no draft or modifications made to those decks

If you didn't get packs to go through and trade with your opponent before sealed something wasn't done right. Deck building happens in every category.
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kariusvega

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2015, 02:45:12 PM »
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one card: created by christ. why is this card a good idea?

browarod

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2015, 02:51:21 PM »
+1
Moreso to help with soul drought I think in general, it just also has the upside of helping with character drought.

Offline Redoubter

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2015, 02:51:47 PM »
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one card: created by christ. why is this card a good idea?

First, Created By Christ will not influence Sealed, just wanted to clarify that since that was recently being discussed.  I'm fairly certain it is still foil-only for pack choices in Sealed.

Second, a card being a good idea does not have bearing on this discussion that I can see.  It is not meant to overcome poor deck-building but to be an interesting, new ability that is very well-aligned with the scripture.  It helps with soul gen, which we like a lot, and it also creates more instances of interaction by making more character options available to all players.  However, if your issue is not drawing characters, you can't play it anyway.

Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2015, 02:52:51 PM »
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Actually Jbeers, in TLG Sealed, you don't trade with an opponent because you build before pairings are made.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2015, 02:56:58 PM »
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Actually Jbeers, in TLG Sealed, you don't trade with an opponent because you build before pairings are made.

Why is that, out of curiosity?
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2015, 02:58:13 PM »
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Three Lions Games style of playing Sealed at our events.

kariusvega

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2015, 02:58:33 PM »
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one card: created by christ. why is this card a good idea?

First, Created By Christ will not influence Sealed, just wanted to clarify that since that was recently being discussed.  I'm fairly certain it is still foil-only for pack choices in Sealed.

Second, a card being a good idea does not have bearing on this discussion that I can see.  It is not meant to overcome poor deck-building but to be an interesting, new ability that is very well-aligned with the scripture.  It helps with soul gen, which we like a lot, and it also creates more instances of interaction by making more character options available to all players.  However, if your issue is not drawing characters, you can't play it anyway.

drawing characters to play it (any enhancement) anyway.

as far as i know that card doesn't even exist the way it was previewed. doesn't mean the same problem still exists in sealed with starter decks for anyone who hasn't played and tested a ton of games or knows stringent deck building strategies well enough to have a sure shot at having a block first turn in any category.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2015, 03:00:29 PM »
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Three Lions Games style of playing Sealed at our events.

I was asking why you do it that way, since that is not the way Cactus set it up. Is TLG just a testing ground for new ideas?
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2015, 03:03:17 PM »
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Yes, exactly. The main idea behind it was to keep those who are unpaired to be at a disadvantage by not being able to trade with anyone.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2015, 04:04:39 PM »
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Yes, exactly. The main idea behind it was to keep those who are unpaired to be at a disadvantage by not being able to trade with anyone.

So is that only the case when there is an odd number of people? I agree that is a good idea for an odd number, but would be disappointing otherwise.

But thats really neither here nor there. I have no opinion on mulligans really, and would only oppose a system wherein a player could muligan as many times as they wish with no penalty. Becuase that would just be silly. Pretty much any other system, or no system, I would be perfectly happy with.
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2015, 06:04:27 PM »
+1
The other drawback is that people who get an opponent who will not trade versus someone who gets an opponent who will. There is just a lot of disparity between card pools which I think there should not be in a sealed event.

As for mulligans, so far so good on how we have been doing them. Each player gets one shot at a mulligan; either take it or leave it. They leave all lost souls on the table, choose the cards they want to dump, shuffle them into their deck, and draw an equal number of cards. That's it and then the game starts. For the extra phase before a game we have had as many or less timeouts than normal thus far.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2015, 06:21:40 PM »
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The other drawback is that people who get an opponent who will not trade versus someone who gets an opponent who will.

So your solution to this is to not allow any trading at all? Somehow that takes away some the fun of the Sealed category.  :-\
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Offline uthminister [BR]

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2015, 06:36:13 PM »
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Disparity isn't fun. My solution is likely to add one more pack. Is that fun?

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2015, 06:49:37 PM »
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My solution is likely to add one more pack. Is that fun?

Do you mean you will offer four packs instead of three, in addition to the starter deck? That would indeed be more fun, unless it increases the cost of playing the category.  ;)
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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2015, 11:35:08 PM »
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Costs are kept low for sure. I have a couple other ideas but that is my primary one right now.

kariusvega

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2015, 11:42:35 PM »
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i really enjoy the option of a simple one shot mulligan if necessary. when i was there i didn't use it, but was very happy to have the option. when at tn state i was pretty sad it wasn't an option haha because i really wanted to mulligan one game, and really could see it may have benefited others in theirs.

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Re: I'd Like to Talk About Mulliagns
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2015, 02:57:19 AM »
+1
Anything that makes at least +10 speed less of a requirement, or at least blunts its impact, is ok in my book. This has the added advantage of allowing "yeah, but you have to draw it first" cards to actually be used, as well as allowing more complex deck strategies to be more viable.

My proposal would be that the penalty for the mulligan is your LS's remaining on the table (with the order of play determined before the opportunity of mulligan), and you can only do it once (or twice if you choose to reveal your hand before the first mulligan, do not have both a Hero and an EC, and do the same after the first mulligan...but that's probably too complicated).
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

 


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