Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I would like to highlight that banning cards effectively regresses the game back to a simpler state of being.  Reason: when the most powerful cards are banned then there will be new powerful cards (and human ingenuity will find new powerful combos).  Ultimately, are you guys wanting the game to be reduced back to simple math?  My 4/4 Mark is battling your 6/6 Judas.  It is for this reason that I will continue to stand against  banning both of the official and unofficial kind. 

Played a few TB games today, and I would like to add Samuel to my list of proposed bans, along with Joseph. Samuel is the Joseph of his speed type. He himself is not quite as daunting as Joseph, but he's the lynchpin of the fastest offense ever to exist. In my 3 games today I decked when my opponent was at 33, 26, and 36 cards in deck. The only time I gave up more than 1 or 2 souls was when there was a bizarre soul drought in spite of Amazing+Jehoash, Harvest Time, Hopper, and TAS.

tl;dr: Ban Joseph and Samuel.

And then Angel Under the Oak is next, and then Abigail, and then Matthew, and then Susanna...  I thought Type Ban was supposed to ban only those cards that are literally broken.  If Joseph and Samuel are literally broken (and therefore the two best heroes in the game), what's to stop the 3rd best hero in the game from getting banned next?  Joseph's protection is useless against CM, since CM was (at one point) banned from TB.  And with no AotL or NJ, having a hero who can get a few CBN enhancements in is not the end of the world.  Uriah can get in 3 ITB/negate + win CBN (Bravery of David, David's Triumph, plus an ASP recur) and has almost as good of inish as Joseph. 

I know that I dropped out of TB, so maybe my opinion doesn't mean anything, but nearly every single theme has drawing and a CBN battlewinner now.  If cards like Joseph and Samuel start getting banned, eventually people will be forced to make defense-heavy TB decks.  And then people will find defensive cards that should be banned, and the trend will continue... 

I plan on playing TB once my CFP exam is done (November 19th, counting down the days), and when I start playing, I don't want to find half of the new cards already banned.  I guess that's why I included the soulseeker quote above.

And slowly a few more realize the truth.  There is no end to banning...it just makes more cards powerful.  I will continue to uphold against all fronts of any suggestions of banning.   

At Pol, not sure how you went from "No bans, balanced metagame" to "Ban ALL the cards" but both Samuel and Broseph have counters if you don't want to use them then QQ moar.

Aside from Broseph's CBN enhancements... but every brigade has that now.

Joseph and Samuel are broken. Anyone care to dispute that? I've heard reference to "some counters," so tell me, what are they?

Part of the point of TB is to decentralize. Right now, I see no reason to use anything but Genesis or Samuel. Banning Joseph and Samuel would increase the viability of other deck types.

Played Pol.

I support banning Joseph to try to uncentralize the offensive meta. I can't comment yet on Sam because I have never seen him played.

How did I lose membership exactly?

If you don't like TB, you don't have to post. Telling TB members that we're whiny and should just tech if we don't like certain strategies is not helpful.

Genesis is a centralizing force in TB. Because search is more powerful than draw in TB, Genesis rose to the forefront of TB before the new set. With this set, Genesis was gifted with the best hero in the game. It only makes sense to ban Broseph in order to try to decentralize the meta more. Samuel is a little more ambiguous in my opinion.

TB is about decentralizing the meta of the game from two or three decks, not about only banning OP cards.

I know I'm not a part of this but, could someone please explain to me how Samuel is such a fast offense? Drawing a total of 6 (if you count the searches for the heroes as draws) doesn't seem too fast... which makes me think that the speed already must have existed. Am I missing some awesome aspect of Samuel?

So there's two "seasons" of this.  Last season, you primarily banned cards that found their way into every deck (NJ, 2/3-liner, etc).  Thanks to the absence of a need for speed, search became the best.  (Both have counters in RBD and Naz, but that's outside of the scope of what I'm talking about).  Now you've moved into banning the stars of themes, not just staples.  What's next?

Quote from: lp670sv on September 06, 2011, 01:48:39 PM

So basically type ban nerfed disciples and now all you have left is genesis and now you want to nerf them too? SS is right on this one, if you keep banning cards it's just gonna make the problem worse. Right now there is at least 5 viable themes in Redemption on offense I see no reason to ban anything right now.

Actually, nothing from Disciples was banned last session. They were less powerful though because of the lack of New Jerusalem and Falling Away dissuading players from playing pure speed decks.

Combined with this.....

Genesis is a centralizing force in TB. Because search is more powerful than draw in TB, Genesis rose to the forefront of TB before the new set.

still proves my point.  Search is only more powerful because TB made it more powerful.  There will always be top decks because humans are creative, and they will find a way to overcome obstacles to win.

I will stop posting in your thread because you guys don't believe me and will not be happy until something is banned.  However, I am confident that I am right and hopefully Rob will believe what I have said (the whole point of me posting in a ban thread: not to win you guy's opinions, but the observers).

So basically type ban nerfed disciples and now all you have left is genesis and now you want to nerf them too? SS is right on this one, if you keep banning cards it's just gonna make the problem worse. Right now there is at least 5 viable themes in Redemption on offense I see no reason to ban anything right now.

Thats what happens when you ban cards.... You eventually Ban the Game.