Author Topic: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist  (Read 84015 times)

Offline christiangamer25

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #275 on: September 07, 2011, 01:59:16 AM »
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there is no question that some cards created in various ccg's have overcentralized the meta to the point where you either play with 1 type of deck or you lose. for example, in 2009 the yugioh meta was completely overrun by TeleDAD decks. it was not uncommon at all for EVERY SINGLE top spot at every single top tournament in every single circuit domestic and international to be nothing but TeleDAD decks (which has thousands of players and far more high-level tournaments in a single year than redemption does in 5 years). an emergency ban was implemented, and the deck was no more. as pol has already stated, banning cards is not about banning what seems to be the most powerful, it is about banning what is completely BROKEN. banning a card will more than likely not cause a cascade where another powerful card will simply take its spot. as long as you keep giving cards checks and striving to keep the game balanced, you will have a healthy meta. in todays yugioh, there are now between 15 and 20 different top tier decks you can top with at high tournaments, which proves unto itself that the meta is diverse and healthy because of bans. there is just no denying that sometimes some cards slip through the cracks and end up becoming far too powerful with far too few answers, and the best course of action to counter them is to simply ban them.
ty masterk you have quoted my point much more elliquently then i now hopefully people will actually care to respond
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #276 on: September 07, 2011, 02:10:38 AM »
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there is no question that some cards created in various ccg's have overcentralized the meta to the point where you either play with 1 type of deck or you lose. for example, in 2009 the yugioh meta was completely overrun by TeleDAD decks. it was not uncommon at all for EVERY SINGLE top spot at every single top tournament in every single circuit domestic and international to be nothing but TeleDAD decks (which has thousands of players and far more high-level tournaments in a single year than redemption does in 5 years). an emergency ban was implemented, and the deck was no more. as pol has already stated, banning cards is not about banning what seems to be the most powerful, it is about banning what is completely BROKEN. banning a card will more than likely not cause a cascade where another powerful card will simply take its spot. as long as you keep giving cards checks and striving to keep the game balanced, you will have a healthy meta. in todays yugioh, there are now between 15 and 20 different top tier decks you can top with at high tournaments, which proves unto itself that the meta is diverse and healthy because of bans. there is just no denying that sometimes some cards slip through the cracks and end up becoming far too powerful with far too few answers, and the best course of action to counter them is to simply ban them.
I know I'm not a part of this, but if I could just put in my input. The point here is that banning doesn't stop anything. So teledad stopped. Now look at the amount of decks with Tourguide of the Underworld. Like, all of them? I think this is proving the point that banning cards just allows a different deck to rain supreme. And what deck doesn't have solemn warning or pot of duality.

I understand your point and you're definitely right to a degree. But I really don't think that banning cards has helped make yugioh balanced; it is popular because everyone plays it so more people do because it started on a popular tv show, and as long as everyone plays it they can afford to make it profitable because of how expensive cards are and the awesome prizes of winning top-level tournaments. It's a vicious cycle that has to actually start somewhere. It started with a tv show, and the more people play, the more money konami makes to make the game better and have more cool looking cards, then the more people play. I don't think banning has made it popular, it's popular because it is popular, as circular as that sounds.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #277 on: September 07, 2011, 02:37:28 AM »
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tour guide is powerful, but its nowhere on the level of abuse teledad wrecked on the meta in 2009. at best tour guide gets you a 2500 atk beater, and if you have noticed, has actually dropped down in price by about $50 (from a $180 card that you have the chance of pulling in a regular booster pack) because of the recent 3 day old ruling concerning xyz materials not being on the field (common play was tour guide -> sangan -> no. 17 leviathan, netting you + 1 from sangan once he left the field). yes, tour guide is powerful and yes, it can be splashed in every single possibly feasible deck, but thats the point...it can be used in every single deck, therefore the meta still remains diverse. furthermore tour guide in no way compromises or shapes the identity of the deck, you will not win games with tour guide alone...its just one of those cards that has become nigh-staple because while powerful, it still only creates a regular 2500 atk beater that can still be easily dealt with by many many many other commonly used cards in the meta. same with pot of duality and solemn warning. pot of duality is one of the most balanced drawing cards i have seen in almost any ccg to date...a very, very, VERY well-thought out and designed card. powerful, but with a hefty drawback that prevents it from becoming ban fodder. solemn warning same way, another powerful card, but thats why its on the ban list :P (limited to 2).
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lp670sv

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #278 on: September 07, 2011, 11:42:16 AM »
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all of this yu gi oh talk makes me want to pick the game up again....

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #279 on: September 07, 2011, 12:12:53 PM »
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sorry, i was just trying to demonstrate to him what constitutes a bannable card and what kinds of cards can remain powerful but with checks. pot of duality is powerful but comes with a huge drawback (no special summoning the turn it is used, and its not even a + 1 draw card), solemn comes with a huge substantial lp payment and is checked by the ban list (limited to 2), and tour guide only gets out a regular huge attack mon that has many checks that are commonly found in the meta (mirror force, tt, dark hole, d-prisons, compulsory, effect veiler, etc etc).

on the other hand, joseph and samuel are walking the line into broken...insane abilities on both that cannot be checked by commonly found cards in the meta. both are virtually immune to getting discarded due to more than one easy way to recur in both of their themes, and 1 cant even be discarded straight-up without a negate. both can easily be protected from capture either by simply laying down a fortress or having a certain artifact active. that severely limits the meta's options of keeping these two powerhouses in check with counters that are reasonable for all decks.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #280 on: September 07, 2011, 12:18:39 PM »
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The one otherwise-foolproof counter to Joseph doesn't even work with caves up. It turns JiP from a nailed coffin to a 1 turn setback.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline lightningninja

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #281 on: September 07, 2011, 03:53:52 PM »
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tour guide is powerful, but its nowhere on the level of abuse teledad wrecked on the meta in 2009. at best tour guide gets you a 2500 atk beater, and if you have noticed, has actually dropped down in price by about $50 (from a $180 card that you have the chance of pulling in a regular booster pack) because of the recent 3 day old ruling concerning xyz materials not being on the field (common play was tour guide -> sangan -> no. 17 leviathan, netting you + 1 from sangan once he left the field). yes, tour guide is powerful and yes, it can be splashed in every single possibly feasible deck, but thats the point...it can be used in every single deck, therefore the meta still remains diverse. furthermore tour guide in no way compromises or shapes the identity of the deck, you will not win games with tour guide alone...its just one of those cards that has become nigh-staple because while powerful, it still only creates a regular 2500 atk beater that can still be easily dealt with by many many many other commonly used cards in the meta. same with pot of duality and solemn warning. pot of duality is one of the most balanced drawing cards i have seen in almost any ccg to date...a very, very, VERY well-thought out and designed card. powerful, but with a hefty drawback that prevents it from becoming ban fodder. solemn warning same way, another powerful card, but thats why its on the ban list :P (limited to 2).
I didn't know about the new ruling, last I heard tourguide still works. I guess my point was that that's exactly what Samuel and Joseph and any of those other cards do. You can't win with Samuel, but he gets a deck going so effectively that he is considered by some to be "broken." Tourguide doesn't win you the game, but getting two cards out of your deck, a 2500 atk beater and a searched monster is pretty powerful, and gets your deck rolling faster that it should (and it happens first turn most of the time in a good deck). So I think the same things are happening, but neither should be banned. It's just a powerful card.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #282 on: September 07, 2011, 04:55:59 PM »
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maybe thats why pol was a bit hesitant towards banning sam. but you still have to look at the entire setup...because sam is the lynchpin in the combo, it will ultimately net you +9 cards plus whatever you get off of ttod...thats a pretty massive swing in raw card advantage over an opponent, especially in a meta where dominants can be key to winning games (and with brigades part of the combo that has plenty of nasty interrupt + battle winners in it). its definately a card tb needs to keep its eye on.
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #283 on: September 07, 2011, 08:42:00 PM »
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Yeah... Just about every amazing battle winner can be in the deck - Reach+AoCP, Sam's Edict, Bravery of David, Zeal for the Lord, etc.
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #284 on: September 07, 2011, 08:43:30 PM »
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Ok fair enough, I understand that. I guess since you can do so many things to him, I didn't realize he'd be such a good character.

And RDT, you forgot Two Bears.  8)
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #285 on: September 07, 2011, 09:04:57 PM »
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it really is the return of the old-skool speed deck...
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #286 on: September 08, 2011, 10:26:18 AM »
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What's your explanation for letting this guy slip through the cracks?
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #287 on: September 08, 2011, 10:48:37 AM »
-4
Winning 5 minute games is more exciting then winning 25 minute games.

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #288 on: September 08, 2011, 11:04:58 AM »
+1
Heck, we could even move to best of three!
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #289 on: September 08, 2011, 11:53:34 AM »
+3
and SIDEBOARD. :o
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TheHobbit13

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #290 on: September 08, 2011, 01:08:41 PM »
+3
We really should do best out of three with top cut.  I mean do we want to see who has the best deck/game play or who can pull a first turn Mayhem etc..., the most?

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #291 on: September 08, 2011, 01:50:07 PM »
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We really should do best out of three with top cut.  I mean do we want to see who has the best deck/game play or who can pull a first turn Mayhem etc..., the most?
I'd love to try this, but my tournaments just aren't big enough.
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Offline Smokey

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #292 on: September 08, 2011, 04:44:12 PM »
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We really should do best out of three with top cut.  I mean do we want to see who has the best deck/game play or who can pull a first turn Mayhem etc..., the most?

How would this solve ftm? If someone got 2 ftms and you get one you'd still be losing.

Banning mayhem is easier than changing rules.

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #293 on: September 08, 2011, 04:57:11 PM »
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We really should do best out of three with top cut.  I mean do we want to see who has the best deck/game play or who can pull a first turn Mayhem etc..., the most?

How would this solve ftm? If someone got 2 ftms and you get one you'd still be losing.

Banning mayhem is easier than changing rules.
No offense to Matt, but I can't imagine that 6 FTMs didn't swing the game heavily in his favor. With best two out of three, it's unlikely that you'd get 2 FTMs each match.

Offline Master KChief

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #294 on: September 08, 2011, 06:45:21 PM »
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matt got 6 ftm's at nats?
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #295 on: September 08, 2011, 06:46:37 PM »
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #296 on: September 08, 2011, 06:47:50 PM »
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what are the odds again of getting mayhem in your opening hand?
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #297 on: September 08, 2011, 06:52:13 PM »
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The math starts here
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #298 on: September 08, 2011, 07:16:32 PM »
+1
Buying 20 of something and eating 16 is not normal. But on math it is. Math; not even once.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

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Re: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist
« Reply #299 on: September 08, 2011, 07:26:27 PM »
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Buying 20 of something and eating 16 is not normal. But on math it is. Math; not even once.
This is a good point. Technically, if he got Peter/4 Dolla Holla, the odds of him getting an FTM go way up. Along with any other draw card he can play first turn.

 


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