Author Topic: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist (Read 87040 times)

SomeKittens · « **Reply #25 on:** June 27, 2011, 03:28:24 PM »

On a more related note, MTG just announced the ban of two cards. Why? EVERYONE was using it. At a recent Grand Prix, 88% of the decks that made it past day one (quals) had at least one copy, and all top 8 finishers had four copies. The other card had similar statistics.

Now, MTG is a different game, with a different meta, but one strategy having such dominance is something to think about. Thus, the immense variety in cards that are offered up to the banning gods humors me. At Regionals, I played against six decks (five at top tables), and also played against six different strategies. I saw every offensive brigade (maaaaybe not White. I know I did, I forget which category), and most of the defensive brigades. There's no need for any banhammering, especially with the new set coming out.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #26 on:** June 27, 2011, 03:46:25 PM »

SK, you're just talking about heroes and enhancements here. Did you go up against anyone who wasn't using SoG and NJ? I think 99.9% of decks that have ever placed in the top 10 at any tournament since NJ came out have used both those cards, at least in T1 categories.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #27 on:** June 27, 2011, 04:44:53 PM »

If you'll notice, Wizards hasn't banned Lands yet either, and they're a larger percentage of one's deck than dominants.

Master KChief · « **Reply #28 on:** June 27, 2011, 04:50:26 PM »

if there was a land that said 'deal 8 damage when this land comes into play', it would be banned.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #29 on:** June 27, 2011, 05:01:11 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on June 27, 2011, 04:50:26 PM

if there was a land that said 'deal 8 damage when this land comes into play', it would be banned.

Because it would result in a stagnant meta. We don't have a stagnant meta (at least in T1)

Master KChief · « **Reply #30 on:** June 27, 2011, 05:10:07 PM »

that depends on how you define stagnant. type 1 is dominated by speed and dominants and has become the same cookie cutter designs rolling the top tournaments. if anything, type 2 is less stagnant than type 1 due to dominants not playing a huge role in overall gameplay, and the sheer size of decks coupled with running multiples of the same card do not guarantee exact mirror matches all that often.

sir nobody brought up an interesting point this last weekend at MO state: instead of creating a slew of new themes and abandoning old ones less and less, we should be making existing themes DEEPER to encourage diversity and greater creativity with deck building.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #31 on:** June 27, 2011, 05:10:42 PM »

The issue with the meta today is that it's overcentralized to one main deck styles with two different versions.

Smokey · « **Reply #32 on:** June 27, 2011, 05:33:39 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on June 27, 2011, 05:10:07 PM

sir nobody brought up an interesting point this last weekend at MO state: instead of creating a slew of new themes and abandoning old ones less and less, we should be making existing themes DEEPER to encourage diversity and greater creativity with deck building.

That isn't going to happen, there are atleast 4 "new" themes in the new set alone.

Master KChief · « **Reply #33 on:** June 27, 2011, 06:07:24 PM »

i realize that. essentially proves sir nobody's point.

Smokey · « **Reply #34 on:** June 27, 2011, 09:20:06 PM »

Never posted my bans.

New Jerusalem - Promotes speed far too much, takes away pristeige from Son of God.

Falling Away - Possibly the most Anti-fun card ever, takes away all satisfaction of the sucessful rescue.

Mayhem - First turn Mayhem is OP.

Josh · « **Reply #35 on:** June 27, 2011, 11:00:00 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on June 27, 2011, 02:40:34 PM

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on June 27, 2011, 01:37:45 PM
AoC isnt so bad anymore. There's enough ways around it now.
Yeah, I almost nominated AoCP and AoTL, but they aren't as game-winningly powerful as they used to be.

AocP is still terrible. The primary reason protect forts were created was this one card. You pretty much have to have a "battle extender" to get around it, like Herod's Temple, Writ, Charms, Herod's Treachery, Gates, etc. If you are playing an OT theme with no magicians, you are basically going to give your opponent a free one if they play it.

I nominate NJ (so silly that you play 2 of your 50 cards to rescue 2 of your 5 LS)
Mayhem (for reasons listed before)
Falling Away/Guardian (introduces a luck factor in a race to get them first, encourages speed)
AoCP (ridiculously powerful card. If a card was printed that said "If used by (pick a theme), discard all ECs in battle. CBN" everyone would be "That's way OP!" But AoCP has no theme requirement and can hit territories too. And it is in a brigade with a costless play-first character)
Plot (ridiculously powerful, and just silly IMHO)

theselfevident · « **Reply #36 on:** June 27, 2011, 11:48:57 PM »

Quote from: Smokey on June 27, 2011, 05:33:39 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on June 27, 2011, 05:10:07 PM
sir nobody brought up an interesting point this last weekend at MO state: instead of creating a slew of new themes and abandoning old ones less and less, we should be making existing themes DEEPER to encourage diversity and greater creativity with deck building.

That isn't going to happen, there are atleast 4 "new" themes in the new set alone.

That's sad. It just seems to have taken the fun out of the game.

CJSports · « **Reply #37 on:** June 28, 2011, 09:04:32 AM »

Quote from: Smokey on June 27, 2011, 09:20:06 PM

Never posted my bans.

New Jerusalem - Promotes speed far too much, takes away pristeige from Son of God.

Falling Away - Possibly the most Anti-fun card ever, takes away all satisfaction of the sucessful rescue.

Mayhem - First turn Mayhem is OP.

Lets Ban GoYS while were at it because we don't want some new kid getting it and going "this is a great card." Then when they find out it does nothing they say "Oh Noes."

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #38 on:** June 28, 2011, 09:18:48 AM »

This is not meant to be a suggestion for cards that will actually be banned. The purpose of this thread is to create and maintain a banlist for people who wish to participate in Type Ban, which is a lot of people.

Gabe · « **Reply #39 on:** June 28, 2011, 09:35:32 AM »

Quote from: Smokey on June 27, 2011, 05:33:39 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on June 27, 2011, 05:10:07 PM
sir nobody brought up an interesting point this last weekend at MO state: instead of creating a slew of new themes and abandoning old ones less and less, we should be making existing themes DEEPER to encourage diversity and greater creativity with deck building.

That isn't going to happen, there are atleast 4 "new" themes in the new set alone.

It's been said before, I think by Bryon, but it's worth repeating... there are no "new" themes in the new set. Only existing themes are are being expanded and pumped up.

Carl deuty · « **Reply #40 on:** June 28, 2011, 09:43:48 AM »

Yeah, Canaanites are not new. You just forgot to play with Bera King of Sodom, but I bet you played with at least one Canaanite on occasion.

Bryon · « **Reply #41 on:** June 28, 2011, 09:49:26 AM »

King of Tyrus? Nah. No one uses him.

Actually, I have used Bera, King of Sodom in my self-capture Raiders' Camp deck.

Bryon · « **Reply #42 on:** June 28, 2011, 10:18:33 AM »

Quote from: Smokey on June 27, 2011, 05:33:39 PM

That isn't going to happen, there are atleast 4 "new" themes in the new set alone.

Wha? Is Rob printing more cards than I know about?

Tin 20:
offense: existing
defense: existing

Tin 21:
offense: existing
defense: existing

Tin 22:
offense: existing
defense: existing

Tin 23:
offense: existing
defense: existing (Canaanites)

Tin 24:
offense: existing
defense: existing

Tin 25:
offense: existing
defense: existing (Canaanites)

It seems to me that all these tins are giving people more different ways to use existing themes. The Canaanites is the closest thing to a new theme in this set. But even that theme gives a way to use a bunch of old cards, effectively adding diversity to the game without having to print as many new cards.

Say I'm building a green prophets deck. Do I include cards from the NT prophets subtheme? Do I include cards from the 2011 set? Do I include any particular defenses that might work especially well with prophets? All the green prophets subthemes work with cards that specify "green prophets" so they cannot be called new themes. Just a way to add variety to existing themes.

But, there will always be people who complain. I shouldn't be surprised.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #43 on:** June 28, 2011, 12:00:08 PM »

AHA! MORE SPOILERS! The cards exist. I knew it! All you haters out there who think that the cards were only a metaphor, or in some temporal rift, I was right!

Smokey · « **Reply #44 on:** June 28, 2011, 12:38:00 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on June 28, 2011, 10:18:33 AM

Quote from: Smokey on June 27, 2011, 05:33:39 PM
That isn't going to happen, there are atleast 4 "new" themes in the new set alone.
Wha? Is Rob printing more cards than I know about?

Tin 20:
offense: existing (Was really small and obscure before, is now a confirmed subtheme)
defense: existing

Tin 21:
offense: existing (New Subtheme)
defense: existing

Tin 22:
offense: existing
defense: existing (New Subtheme)

Tin 23:
offense: existing
defense: existing (Canaanites)

Tin 24:
offense: existing
defense: existing (Exsisting, but people used it alot less than Canaanites if you counted KoT)

Tin 25:
offense: existing
defense: existing (Canaanites)

It seems to me that all these tins are giving people more different ways to use existing themes. The Canaanites is the closest thing to a new theme in this set. But even that theme gives a way to use a bunch of old cards, effectively adding diversity to the game without having to print as many new cards.

Say I'm building a green prophets deck. Do I include cards from the NT prophets subtheme? Do I include cards from the 2011 set? Do I include any particular defenses that might work especially well with prophets? All the green prophets subthemes work with cards that specify "green prophets" so they cannot be called new themes. Just a way to add variety to existing themes.

But, there will always be people who complain. I shouldn't be surprised.

I put new in quotes for a reason, but I outlined what I defined as a "new" theme under your definition.
Just to prove your other statement, Clearly Green Prophets (which have been printed in EVERY SET) needed alot of new cards.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #45 on:** June 28, 2011, 12:42:36 PM »

"Clearly Green Prophets?" Is this one of the new/old themes? Are they printed on transparency paper?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #46 on:** June 28, 2011, 12:47:32 PM »

I like the addition on the theme on imbalanced heroes.

Gabe · « **Reply #47 on:** June 28, 2011, 12:55:49 PM »

Quote from: Smokey on June 27, 2011, 05:33:39 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on June 27, 2011, 05:10:07 PM
sir nobody brought up an interesting point this last weekend at MO state: instead of creating a slew of new themes and abandoning old ones less and less, we should be making existing themes DEEPER to encourage diversity and greater creativity with deck building.

That isn't going to happen, there are atleast 4 "new" themes in the new set alone.

Quote from: Smokey on June 28, 2011, 12:38:00 PM

Just to prove your other statement, Clearly Green Prophets (which have been printed in EVERY SET) needed alot of new cards.

I'm so confused. Which way do you want it Smokey? Do you want us to add to the existing themes or do you want us to print new themes. Unless I'm reading this wrong your complaining about both...

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on June 28, 2011, 12:47:32 PM

I like the addition on the theme on imbalanced heroes.

At least sauce will be happy since we're printing a new more OP version of Thad in every tin.

Smokey · « **Reply #48 on:** June 28, 2011, 01:24:49 PM »

Quote from: Gabe on June 28, 2011, 12:55:49 PM

Quote from: Smokey on June 27, 2011, 05:33:39 PM
Quote from: Master KChief on June 27, 2011, 05:10:07 PM
sir nobody brought up an interesting point this last weekend at MO state: instead of creating a slew of new themes and abandoning old ones less and less, we should be making existing themes DEEPER to encourage diversity and greater creativity with deck building.

That isn't going to happen, there are atleast 4 "new" themes in the new set alone.

Quote from: Smokey on June 28, 2011, 12:38:00 PM
Just to prove your other statement, Clearly Green Prophets (which have been printed in EVERY SET) needed alot of new cards.

I'm so confused. Which way do you want it Smokey? Do you want us to add to the existing themes or do you want us to print new themes. Unless I'm reading this wrong your complaining about both...

I want more themes to be playable so the metagame doesn't get insta-centralized the moment a new set comes out, which happens almost every set.
I don't think anyone can argue Prophets haven't been playable since Hidden Treasures came out, and they still continue to get loads of new cards.
Power creep doesn't help either, and theres a ton of that in every set also.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #49 on:** June 28, 2011, 02:56:22 PM »

Prophets will probably get cards every set for as long as Redemption lasts. Mostly because there are still a lot of big name prophets that can be reprinted, which is good in two ways: 1) art can be reused provided its good enough, which saves Cactus money, 2) Recognizable characters promote the fun of the game to younger kids. Also, at least half the Bible was written by Prophets. It's just the nature of the game.

And I'm not sure why the subthemes that are strengthened should be a source of complaints (I still don't see any of them as being new, as I can think of characters in every theme or subtheme in the tins that have been used more than a little). All of the "subthemes" can mesh well together with other subthemes, or they can stand on their own. I'd say that would help deck variety and creativity.

I assure you more themes will be playable; whether or not one theme dominates and the meta becomes centralized remains to be seen, but there was a lot of playtesting that went into this set, and a lot of changes were made to make the various strategies balanced among each other. If it turns out that we were wrong, then that will truly be unfortunate, but I hope you'll at least give the new set a chance before assuming it's going to ruin the game...again...

News:

Author Topic: Type 1-2 Player Unofficial Banlist (Read 87040 times)

Rawrlolsauce!