Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Now that the meta has settled, the initial predictions have pretty much borne out; Sam, TGT and Genesis run the show. Perhaps it's time to experience a meta with no Sam, TGT, or Joseph?

Hello Professor oak and Angelica's secret's domination...

I still largely oppose banning cards that aren't staples in virtually every deck, however, I'm less opposed to the idea as I was. That said, I don't think banning Sam is what needs to be done to level that out a bit. I think if we ban Angel Under the Oak, a lot of the big issues with Sam drop off, while keeping the offense itself viable. The issue isn't a massive banning chain with a D5 in there; we've had the banning chain for ages. The issue is that Angel lets you set up that banding chain ridiculous quickly, and throwing a D2 for the lulz. Genesis has settled down and isn't the powerhouse we originally thought it was. It's strong, yes, but I don't think Joseph needs to be banned, at least not until we see the effects neutering Sam (and possibly TGT/Gardensciples) has. Finally, instead of nuking TGT, what about Mary, Mother of James?

I still largely oppose banning cards that aren't staples in virtually every deck, however, I'm less opposed to the idea as I was. That said, I don't think banning Sam is what needs to be done to level that out a bit. I think if we ban Angel Under the Oak, a lot of the big issues with Sam drop off, while keeping the offense itself viable. The issue isn't a massive banning chain with a D5 in there; we've had the banning chain for ages. The issue is that Angel lets you set up that banding chain ridiculous quickly, and throwing a D2 for the lulz. Genesis has settled down and isn't the powerhouse we originally thought it was. It's strong, yes, but I don't think Joseph needs to be banned, at least not until we see the effects neutering Sam (and possibly TGT/Gardensciples) has. Finally, instead of nuking TGT, what about Mary, Mother of James?

I could get behind banning the Angel Under the Oak over Sam, as I agree he is a huge part of that offense.  I'm personally more in favor of getting rid of TGT rather than Mary, Mother of James (though I agree if we're not getting rid of TGT, she should be the one that gets banned).

Genesis might not be the powerhouse we thought it was, but with Sam and TGT knocked down a peg, I think it is very likely that it would become that powerhouse, but I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of testing to see if Genesis really would take over the meta without those themes before nerfing it.

So it looks like the initial round of testing should see Angel under the Oak and TGT banned. Anyone have any other suggestions? Anyone agree with Ishmaiah?

I nominate Isaiah's Call. Negating Souls, sites, and ECs, site access, and the ability to recur Isaiah with all that make it extremely powerful. Plus, it can be recurred very easily with Seraph w/LC and Isaiah himself.

Sabbath Breaker should go too, for the exact same reason as Oak.

I disagree. A negatable D3 on defense is nothing to get upset about, and a lot of defenses (even standalones) don't use him.

As much as I hate to say it (since it ruins my deck), I nominate Isaiah's Call. Negating Souls, sites, and ECs, site access, and the ability to recur Isaiah with all that make it extremely powerful.

True, but Isaiah decks in themselves are not that powerful.

I think Ishmaiah needs to go. There is no way fbtn should have access to more drawing.

He would be the second choice in my opinion, but for right now, I'd rather see what killing Angel does.

Genesis might not be the powerhouse we thought it was, but with Sam and TGT knocked down a peg, I think it is very likely that it would become that powerhouse, but I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of testing to see if Genesis really would take over the meta without those themes before nerfing it.

That's basically my suggestion.

The best TGT decks use John or Peter as often as MoJ. Banning MoJ won't really put a dent in Gardenciples.

I disagree. I don't think TGT in itself is all that powerful anymore, I think it's the CBN four hero banding that really becomes a problem. Eliminating TGT will completely remove the theme; removing MMoJ at least gives Gardensciples and TGT itself a chance.

Gates of Samaria.  That thing's just crazy.

Too slow to matter, though it might become a problem with the banning of staple cards from strong offenses.

Woah, I'm surprised to see all these different things being thrown around. Usually when Type Ban is brought up, most people (especially ones who have no intention of playing TB) just say "NJ ONLY." That hasn't even been mentioned this time around.

Well, I mean, I think it goes without saying that Mayhem should be banned. I've never been a fan of banning NJ but I wouldn't oppose it either.

Woah, I'm surprised to see all these different things being thrown around. Usually when Type Ban is brought up, most people (especially ones who have no intention of playing TB) just say "NJ ONLY." That hasn't even been mentioned this time around.

That's a given.

Every respectable standalone defense uses Sabbath Breaker.

Fair enough. I'd still ban Uzzah and Gomer before I'd ban SB.

Ban Mayhem. ONLY.

You spoke too soon, Pol.

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on February 01, 2012, 10:49:29 PM

ban Gomer

Uzzah is much worse than Gomer.

Ban Pot of Manna ONLY.